The Official BSG S3 Spoiler Thread

[Babylon5fan07]

Honestly, this is the *ONE* real complaint I have about this show.

* The 12 human colonies were attacked and wiped out by the Cylons.
* Billions died.
* Less than 50,000 of the entire human race survived.
* Those 50,000 are not being allowed to escape or try to start life elsewhere, they are being chased and hunted.
* Now their enemy is hunting the last part of humanity that might exist -- Earth, the 13th tribe.

With all of that going on, WHY IS THERE A FREAKIN QUESTION THAT WIPING OUT THE RACE OF MACHINES THAT DID THAT IS THE MORALLY RIGHT THING TO DO???

There aren't many black and white issues, but I do believe that this is one of them, and if any of us were in that situation, we would be voting for the wiping out. It truly is a "them or us" situation. The show tries to cloud that (I think mainly because they try to make parallels to events going on in the world today, which aren't nearly as cut and dry) but the bottom line, if you look at the above points, the choice really is clear. The rest is added to make us "think" and in a way, I think that takes away from the show...

I realize that I'm 20 years late on this episode and the show itself but I couldn't help myself on this one. Just curious on everyone's thoughts. In Babylon 5 didn't we have a similar situation with the movie In The Beginning? Had Dr. Franklin in the movie (oviously this would have never happened) actually used his practice to wipe out the Minbari would the series have made since. I realize that this is old news but now that I found this forum and caught up on the new BSG series is there really anyone really 2nd guessing themselves on some of the replies? Immediately when I saw this episode I thought of ITB right away. Oviously the episode Hero explains anyways that Adama and the rest of the military are the ones that breached the armistice line so having the cylons attacking Caprica really isn't a surprise..It probably may have happened anyways but still realistically had Helo not saved the day the show would have ended? Really thoughts anyone (especially Boxie I noticed you haven't been criticizing season 3 up to page 4 yet. I normally dont read every thread this long but I'm slowly reading all the BSG replies.

I'm almost half way caught up on the thread but so far up to season 3 episode 8 Hero..I thought every episode is up to standard to seasons 1 through 2.

Alex

 

[Chilli]

There are several things I can think of that make the situations differ in my mind

* Franklin is a doctor. He's not the leader of the survivors of the human race, for very good reasons. Adama, on the other hand, has no hippocratic oath to fall back on.

* The Minbari had not proven to be out for the actual extermination of the human race.

* The humans started the war. Thus, less of a moral highground.

* Minbari were believed to be sentient beings. Cylons were believed to be .. toasters.

 

[Babylon5fan07]

There are several things I can think of that make the situations differ in my mind

* Franklin is a doctor. He's not the leader of the survivors of the human race, for very good reasons. Adama, on the other hand, has no hippocratic oath to fall back on.

* The Minbari had not proven to be out for the actual extermination of the human race.

* The humans started the war. Thus, less of a moral highground.

* Minbari were believed to be sentient beings. Cylons were believed to be .. toasters.

Some spoilers from Matrix, Star Trek and V if anyone hasn't seen any of these shows please beware




Ok I see your points but I'm not sure if anyone has seen or even enjoyed all 3 Matrix movies but with regard to agreeing with Helo I just don't understand why he would be considered wrong. After all we did create the cylons but just because we created them I don't think it means we wipe them out either. Now as far as Matrix parallel I'm seeing another similarity. Even if I hadn't watched all the episodes of Season 3 past that episode where Helo made that decision I just agree that even though the Cylons have done all these terrible things to us I too agree that we lose our souls and humanity for even considering (getting back at them) wiping out the cylons. Oviously by now we understand 4 100% that Tigh, Tyrol, Anders and Tory are the final 4 of 5 cylons so (but not counting that episode)just because we have a chance to wipe out an entire race of machines does it really justify because there is still that chance that something good would come out of it.

I just don't see how BSG would have really benefited from wiping out the same race that we created and even loved from the original series. Look at the Matrix the true villian in that whole trilogy was actually Agent Smith a virus that was sent out to destroy the humans and machines alike but Mr. Anderson sacrificed himself to even give peace a chance. Yes as Recoil has some valid points for us wiping them out it just doesn't make it right. If your a star trek fan look at Hugh's character in the next generation..he was a borg and ended up being a good guy (even though at one point Lore became a leader and kind of messed things up) but at the end the borg ended up not striking at us. Ok the arguement could be that in Voyager they still were trying to wipe us out but still in the end just because we see an entire race of beings ready to wipe us out it doesn't mean that everyone agrees. There still may be that 10 % of cylons that may make a difference of peace vs. continued war.

One last parallel is the show V..If you have seen that show you notice that their are a few resistance aliens that did help the human resistance. Look at Robert Englund's character Willie..sure he was kind of a wuss but he still helped make a difference numerous times. There were still at least 10 to 15% of the alien V race that were with the humans to make a difference.

It's one of those easy way out situations. I realize I would be partly contradicting here but look at the recent Imus situation. Do I agree that he should have been fired yes. In a way I could see a firing the same as wiping out a species but over on the sci fi board I said we should throw out of the airlock..Did I mean that no but I still think there should be some ramification for what he did. What should we do slap the guy on the hand and act like nothing happened? Should we completely ban him from tv or radio...no but I know that he probably won't have as easy time getting another job or getting listener ratings. Banning him would be like wiping out the cylons.

I know KoshN wants why when it comes to opions I hope this is a huge why for me here.

Alex

 

[Babylon5fan07]

The master wanker in this area must be Rick Berman though. I remember reading an interview with him in the very early days of Enterprise's run .. when future guy was the great big mystery.

.. and he kept going on about how ... "oh, we don't know yet who he is. But I'm sure we'll think of something!"

....!!! .. if you'll be *that* cheap, one would expect you'd at least be embarrased enough to not admit it that freely ..

IIRC, the resolution of that plot did end up being as shit as I expected the moment I read that interview (I had long given up on Enterprise by that time). Who'd have thought ...

You realize that Enterprise didn't fail because of fan support..when Enterprise was announced for the ending of the show after 4 seasons Star Trek fans poured out over 1 million dollars to save the show..Had it not been for a clause that no 3rd party can save a tv show it would have gone a 5th season.

Ratings were a problem I admit but it suffered for the same reason every other show on tv has been suffering..too many commercials and poor advertising. People aren't getting tired of the new BSG show the only reason ratings are even down from the initial mini series is the same as Enterprise. I'll admit Enterprise during it's first 2 seasons weren't the best but 3rd and 4th season were some of the best Star Trek ever made especially the whole Xindi story arc during the whole 3rd season kind of a Babylon 5/DS9 situation.

Either case ratings are very deceiving especially the fact that even though the new BSG is only getting an average 1.0 to 1.7 (on cable which is different than broadcast tv) fan viewership and female viewership is up and thanks to street teaming the the show is getting more fans.

If BSG gets canned after the 4th season it won't be because of lack of viewership thanks due in part to dvd and itunes sales. That's why I think B5: TLT will do well on dvd because no commercials and no issues to deal with when it comes to ratings and figuring out if the show is on Fridays or Sundays.

Alex

 

[vacantlook]

You realize that Enterprise didn't fail because of fan support..when Enterprise was announced for the ending of the show after 4 seasons Star Trek fans poured out over 1 million dollars to save the show..Had it not been for a clause that no 3rd party can save a tv show it would have gone a 5th season.

1 million $ couldn't even remotely save the show. When it comes to everything I've read about Star Trek shows per episode budgets, 1 million $ wouldn't even pay for a full single episode.

 

[Babylon5fan07]

1 million $ couldn't even remotely save the show. When it comes to everything I've read about Star Trek shows per episode budgets, 1 million $ wouldn't even pay for a full single episode.

I understand the money part but it was more of a nostalgia thing. It wasn't the money that was going to save the show it was the idea behind it and the fact that there were fans out there that were willing to do whatever it took to save the show. Even if Rick Berman ended up doing some wierd stuff with the show the fact that there were still a lot of fans that still wanted to do what it took to save the show. I realize that $1 million is a lot of money but the fact of all the fans that were able to come up with that amount of money. I don't know what everyone's financial situation is but I don't have a million. Just add up even $5 per person to add up the $1 million.

Alex