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The Traitor
- Thread starter TheInfection
- Start date
GaribaldisHair
Regular
Here I go again - posting once the subject has tangented. Im am soooooooo sloooooooooooow.
On Laurel Takashima - in "The Gathering" if you look real closely at the door security panel when Del Varner goes in to meet his maker (sorry ... contact) the panel clearly shows <font color=yellow>Laurel Takashima cleared</font color=yellow> as the door opens. You have to be alert because it flashes on and off very quickly, but it is definitely there.
Even then JMS was sowing the seeds. What a guy
/ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif
On Laurel Takashima - in "The Gathering" if you look real closely at the door security panel when Del Varner goes in to meet his maker (sorry ... contact) the panel clearly shows <font color=yellow>Laurel Takashima cleared</font color=yellow> as the door opens. You have to be alert because it flashes on and off very quickly, but it is definitely there.
Even then JMS was sowing the seeds. What a guy
/ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif
Apocalypse_Box
Regular
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by channe:
<font color=yellow>
Let me think about it. /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif</font color=yellow><hr></blockquote>
Done and done. Just post it in this topic.
<font color=yellow>
Let me think about it. /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif</font color=yellow><hr></blockquote>
Done and done. Just post it in this topic.
TheInfection
Regular
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by channe:
<font color=yellow>Why use a killer monkey when you can have a killer godlike alien race? /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif</font color=yellow><hr></blockquote>
Well then, how about a three headed killer monkey?
Regards,
TheInfection
<font color=yellow>Why use a killer monkey when you can have a killer godlike alien race? /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif</font color=yellow><hr></blockquote>
Well then, how about a three headed killer monkey?
Regards,
TheInfection
WHAT CHANNE WOULD DO IF SHE WROTE FOR RANGERS (part one)... just for Apocalypse_Box!
A good amount of the conflict would be foreshadowed in the pilot - and, by the end of season four, the viewers would be able to trace a lot of the conflict back to each character's truth - the fact that Martel's looking for something, Tafeek's difficult road, the reason why Malcolm never sees his face. Each one of these truths would be tied together within the greater story - each one of these truths would affect one another. That scene would be the basis of a lot of the interpersonal conflict between the main characters and those they meet on their journeys through the stars.
I'd go with a five-year structure, as well; not to copy JMS, as I know some of you will scream, but the fact that a five-year structure is perfect for telling a dramatic story: establishment, rising action, climax, falling action, resolution. So, I'll keep this Babylon 5 tradition (and, indeed, from-the-beginning-of-western-drama tradition).
While to come up with a fairly involved story arc in the amount of time I have to write this is positively ludicrous, there are a number of things I would definitely address.
- One of the primary themes in the show would be communication - between races, between people. The dearth of it, the profusion of it, what happens when it's true and what happens when it's false.
- The Hand would remain a primary antagonist. One problem, though - how do I overcome turning them into Thirdspace aliens or just another bunch of Shadows? Let me think about this for a bit.
- I would make Tafeek a Worker caste, and through him we'd see more about the Rangers and about the Minbari. If I had my druthers, he would have become a Ranger after the Minbari Civil War. Hey, maybe he was the Minbari version of human resources at the Whitestar construction yards. /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif
Um, I'm rambling. More later on. Stay tuned.
A good amount of the conflict would be foreshadowed in the pilot - and, by the end of season four, the viewers would be able to trace a lot of the conflict back to each character's truth - the fact that Martel's looking for something, Tafeek's difficult road, the reason why Malcolm never sees his face. Each one of these truths would be tied together within the greater story - each one of these truths would affect one another. That scene would be the basis of a lot of the interpersonal conflict between the main characters and those they meet on their journeys through the stars.
I'd go with a five-year structure, as well; not to copy JMS, as I know some of you will scream, but the fact that a five-year structure is perfect for telling a dramatic story: establishment, rising action, climax, falling action, resolution. So, I'll keep this Babylon 5 tradition (and, indeed, from-the-beginning-of-western-drama tradition).
While to come up with a fairly involved story arc in the amount of time I have to write this is positively ludicrous, there are a number of things I would definitely address.
- One of the primary themes in the show would be communication - between races, between people. The dearth of it, the profusion of it, what happens when it's true and what happens when it's false.
- The Hand would remain a primary antagonist. One problem, though - how do I overcome turning them into Thirdspace aliens or just another bunch of Shadows? Let me think about this for a bit.
- I would make Tafeek a Worker caste, and through him we'd see more about the Rangers and about the Minbari. If I had my druthers, he would have become a Ranger after the Minbari Civil War. Hey, maybe he was the Minbari version of human resources at the Whitestar construction yards. /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif
Um, I'm rambling. More later on. Stay tuned.
I had a lot here earlier, Box, but realized that I was digging myself in further than I wanted to without structuring things well. So, tomorrow on my four-hour drive to visit the family for Easter, I'll construct a clearer picture.
There's a *lot* of stuff to think about; especially being a younger writer, remaining fairly inexperienced as to what really works in fairly-hard sf like this (I'm more of an anything-goes Ellisonesque fantastist myself), I'll need to find and latch on to some really new, groundbreaking stuff.
That's what long drives are good for. /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif
Until then, chew on the above. Hope it's all right!
There's a *lot* of stuff to think about; especially being a younger writer, remaining fairly inexperienced as to what really works in fairly-hard sf like this (I'm more of an anything-goes Ellisonesque fantastist myself), I'll need to find and latch on to some really new, groundbreaking stuff.
That's what long drives are good for. /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif
Until then, chew on the above. Hope it's all right!
A_M_Swallow
Regular
The other thing to remember is that the best way to predict the future is to predict the present. Double check with 20 years ago.
M
Mike G
Guest
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>by the end of season four, the viewers would be able to trace a lot of the conflict back to each character's truth <hr></blockquote>
I think that is JMS goal also.
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>One of the primary themes in the show would be communication - between races, between people. The dearth of it, the profusion of it, what happens when it's true and what happens when it's false. <hr></blockquote>
Sort of like hope in B5?
I think that is JMS goal also.
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>One of the primary themes in the show would be communication - between races, between people. The dearth of it, the profusion of it, what happens when it's true and what happens when it's false. <hr></blockquote>
Sort of like hope in B5?
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Mike G:
<font color=yellow>I think that is JMS goal also.
Sort of like hope in B5?</font color=yellow><hr></blockquote>
Andrew, are you thinking of anything in particular?
B5 also had "a lot of things are not what they seem" as a major theme; I have a feeling, from the pilot, that that's one of the themes that'll be incorporated in Rangers.
Like hope? Not totally. Hope was the central *thing* about B5; it was the crux-point. Communication wouldn't be a crux-point, but you could trace a lot of the conflict back to it.
The moment I saw the scene with the truths, I thought "this would be a neat way to structure the conflict, to foreshadow..." And if the conflict in Rangers doesn't get traced back to that scene, then slap me silly and call me Brad.
<font color=yellow>I think that is JMS goal also.
Sort of like hope in B5?</font color=yellow><hr></blockquote>
Andrew, are you thinking of anything in particular?
B5 also had "a lot of things are not what they seem" as a major theme; I have a feeling, from the pilot, that that's one of the themes that'll be incorporated in Rangers.
Like hope? Not totally. Hope was the central *thing* about B5; it was the crux-point. Communication wouldn't be a crux-point, but you could trace a lot of the conflict back to it.
The moment I saw the scene with the truths, I thought "this would be a neat way to structure the conflict, to foreshadow..." And if the conflict in Rangers doesn't get traced back to that scene, then slap me silly and call me Brad.
A_M_Swallow
Regular
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by channe:
<font color=yellow>Andrew, are you thinking of anything in particular?
.</font color=yellow><hr></blockquote>
Nothing in particular. The rule that the best way to predict the future is to predict the present does not apply to pure science but does apply to people.
The basic character of people and the major problem that they have to solve has not changed very much in the last 8,000 years. Getting food, shelter, heat, clothing, water, a mate, bringing up children, acquiring status or maintaining a group etc. are all still problems.
This limits the technology that gets chosen. A marketing text book gives an interesting example. Problem - home entertainment.
1980 solution tvs and record players.
1880 solution a sing along around the piano.
2180 solution = ?
For a SF example see the 1960s tv series "The Prisoner". It showed a world in which every one had a number and was watched by tv cameras. I have a National (Social) Security Number, Credit Card Number, Employee Number etc. If I go into town there is a camera around somewhere watching the crowd.
Giving people serial numbers is not new. The UK Government gave men a National Insurance Number in 1911 when the Social Security Stamp was introduced.
So what are the Government/Big Companies/Small Companies up to? Look around and see.
Some things run in a cycle. A well know one is universities publishing exam results alphabetical order Vs highest mark first. Decades in which people rush to new housing in the suburbs are followed by gentrification of the city centres. (Gentrification - obviously an old word. No modern social planner with a left wing view of society would derive a word from gentleman.)
Since the personal is political; are women showing that they are modern by (a) becoming full time housewives or (b) becoming working mothers? Double check what courses they are studying.
To use this technique just walk around town one lunch time. Note 10 things that people are doing that are not talked about very often. Chose 5 that would not go into a normal soap opera, dress them up a bit and you will have predictions that some people will claim are impossible. Strange, in 20 years time they will be true.
My personal prediction - the current plastic pounding record companies will have gone bankrupt and been replaced by companies that charge to down load from the internet.
First of all we will have to develop a secure and cheap way of paying amounts as small as 2 dollars. Have you seen the new 100 UK pound email machines from Amstrad? Then have build in credit card readers. See also paying for lotteries, book tokens and prepay mobile phones.
<font color=yellow>Andrew, are you thinking of anything in particular?
.</font color=yellow><hr></blockquote>
Nothing in particular. The rule that the best way to predict the future is to predict the present does not apply to pure science but does apply to people.
The basic character of people and the major problem that they have to solve has not changed very much in the last 8,000 years. Getting food, shelter, heat, clothing, water, a mate, bringing up children, acquiring status or maintaining a group etc. are all still problems.
This limits the technology that gets chosen. A marketing text book gives an interesting example. Problem - home entertainment.
1980 solution tvs and record players.
1880 solution a sing along around the piano.
2180 solution = ?
For a SF example see the 1960s tv series "The Prisoner". It showed a world in which every one had a number and was watched by tv cameras. I have a National (Social) Security Number, Credit Card Number, Employee Number etc. If I go into town there is a camera around somewhere watching the crowd.
Giving people serial numbers is not new. The UK Government gave men a National Insurance Number in 1911 when the Social Security Stamp was introduced.
So what are the Government/Big Companies/Small Companies up to? Look around and see.
Some things run in a cycle. A well know one is universities publishing exam results alphabetical order Vs highest mark first. Decades in which people rush to new housing in the suburbs are followed by gentrification of the city centres. (Gentrification - obviously an old word. No modern social planner with a left wing view of society would derive a word from gentleman.)
Since the personal is political; are women showing that they are modern by (a) becoming full time housewives or (b) becoming working mothers? Double check what courses they are studying.
To use this technique just walk around town one lunch time. Note 10 things that people are doing that are not talked about very often. Chose 5 that would not go into a normal soap opera, dress them up a bit and you will have predictions that some people will claim are impossible. Strange, in 20 years time they will be true.
My personal prediction - the current plastic pounding record companies will have gone bankrupt and been replaced by companies that charge to down load from the internet.
First of all we will have to develop a secure and cheap way of paying amounts as small as 2 dollars. Have you seen the new 100 UK pound email machines from Amstrad? Then have build in credit card readers. See also paying for lotteries, book tokens and prepay mobile phones.
Apocalypse_Box
Regular
I'll look forward to what your epic car trip reveals to me.
D
**DONOTDELETE**
Guest
hello everyone from a newbie! /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif
i would like to go back to topic of the traitor for a moment, if you don't mind. /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif it has been bugging me since i read this thread a couple of days ago, but i swear i remember that the crew found out that Kafka(?) the traitor was on the Liandra before when the last crew were killed and he escaped in a life pod. does anyone else remember this or is my poor brain making this up? LOL /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif
i would like to go back to topic of the traitor for a moment, if you don't mind. /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif it has been bugging me since i read this thread a couple of days ago, but i swear i remember that the crew found out that Kafka(?) the traitor was on the Liandra before when the last crew were killed and he escaped in a life pod. does anyone else remember this or is my poor brain making this up? LOL /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif
Jade Jaguar
Regular
Yes, probably everyone remembers that. But there are indications that what ever happened to the Liandra's previous crew was due to a traitor, and IMHO, hints that there may be a traitor among the new crew. We'll probably never know for certain, unless we get a series! I hope I hope I hope! I just reviewed this thread, and Joe De M. states that Minister Kafta was the traitor in his first post, early in this thread, and someone else says they are talking about a traitor in the missing crew. Review the WHOLE thread, and it will be clear to you, I think...
Apocalypse_Box
Regular
I don't even want to know how you got from Rangers to Chinese food. Just trying to connect the two is giving me a headache...
Well, I'm trying to decipher a similarity between Rangers and Chinese, I'll patiently wait.
Well, I'm trying to decipher a similarity between Rangers and Chinese, I'll patiently wait.
D
**DONOTDELETE**
Guest
[Q] Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Joseph DeMartino:
There isn't currently a traitor aboard Liandra. The traitor referred to in the film was Minister Kafta - an alien ambassador secretly in league with The Hand. Nobody knows who the traitor was during Liandra's previous mission, since none of the crew were found aboard the derelict ship.
Regards,
Joe
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, I was referring to the traitor(s) of the previous crew, not Minister Kafta. But as you said, nobody knows what exactly happened.
Regards,
TheInfection [/Q]
this post is what lead me to believe i was mistaken in my memory of what happened. i did read the whole thread before posting and it was posts like this that had me thinking that i was wrong. i kept thinking that someone was going to post about what i thought i remembered, then i would know i wasn't making it up. /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif i am going to watch the movie again tomorrow night. i have to know cause this will drive me crazy till i find out!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Joseph DeMartino:
There isn't currently a traitor aboard Liandra. The traitor referred to in the film was Minister Kafta - an alien ambassador secretly in league with The Hand. Nobody knows who the traitor was during Liandra's previous mission, since none of the crew were found aboard the derelict ship.
Regards,
Joe
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, I was referring to the traitor(s) of the previous crew, not Minister Kafta. But as you said, nobody knows what exactly happened.
Regards,
TheInfection [/Q]
this post is what lead me to believe i was mistaken in my memory of what happened. i did read the whole thread before posting and it was posts like this that had me thinking that i was wrong. i kept thinking that someone was going to post about what i thought i remembered, then i would know i wasn't making it up. /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif i am going to watch the movie again tomorrow night. i have to know cause this will drive me crazy till i find out!
Kribu
Administrator
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by mary_beth:
<font color=yellow>hello everyone from a newbie! /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif
i would like to go back to topic of the traitor for a moment, if you don't mind. /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif it has been bugging me since i read this thread a couple of days ago, but i swear i remember that the crew found out that Kafka(?) the traitor was on the Liandra before when the last crew were killed and he escaped in a life pod. does anyone else remember this or is my poor brain making this up? LOL /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif</font color=yellow><hr></blockquote>
Hello and welcome! /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif
As for Kafta being on Liandra before, when the last crew was killed - if that's what you mean - hmmmmm... I've watched the movie three times now, last time just this Sunday, and I really can't remember anything pointing to that.
All I remember is talk about how the ghosts didn't necessarily mean that there has to be the same traitor aboard, "just a traitor".
But I may be wrong. /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif
<font color=yellow>hello everyone from a newbie! /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif
i would like to go back to topic of the traitor for a moment, if you don't mind. /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif it has been bugging me since i read this thread a couple of days ago, but i swear i remember that the crew found out that Kafka(?) the traitor was on the Liandra before when the last crew were killed and he escaped in a life pod. does anyone else remember this or is my poor brain making this up? LOL /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif</font color=yellow><hr></blockquote>
Hello and welcome! /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif
As for Kafta being on Liandra before, when the last crew was killed - if that's what you mean - hmmmmm... I've watched the movie three times now, last time just this Sunday, and I really can't remember anything pointing to that.
All I remember is talk about how the ghosts didn't necessarily mean that there has to be the same traitor aboard, "just a traitor".
But I may be wrong. /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif
D
**DONOTDELETE**
Guest
ok i have watched the movie again and i now see what made me draw that conclusion. when the capt. found the encrypted file and they heard the dead crew member say "whoever survives us is the one who killed us". then when the diplomats had to be rescued after getting away from the severely damaged "Valen" i think that my mind somehow assumed that Kafta was there with the previous crew and escaped the same way. especially when he told the captain that "they reward loyalty" refering to the Hand and their allies. that led me to believe that they had rescued him after he left the Liandra the last time. so i was wrong about them actually saying that Kafta was the traitor. but that brings up another point. why didn't they go into a little more detail about investigating who did survive the first attack. a couple of lines of dialouge would have done it. maybe something like, "by the way we checked the passenger manifest on the Liandra's last mission and found out that Kafta was a survivor who got away in an escape pod" for example. i guess we will have to wait for the series (fingers crossed) to finally tell us who the first traitor was or is. /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif
