Thirdspace - 1 Question

[KoshN]

At the beginning (Ivanova's mousetrap) why didn't the raider's "battlewagon" (to use Sheridan's words) and the Sheridan's whitestars SEE each other in hyperspace before they jumped to normal space? Since they both jumped out to the same location, they should've been in about the same location in hyperspace.

 

[Springer]

Possibly it is easier to hide in hyperspace than in normal space, particularly if you can move away from the hyperspace beacon. In No Surrender No Retreat the White Stars were able to hide from Starfury patrols. Or possibly it is some stealth technology based on Minbari and Vorlon technology (the Minbari stealth technology from Points of Departure, and the Vorlon 'folding space' technique in The Summoning).

 

[KoshN]

The thing is, they were both jumping from hyperspace to the same area of normal space, so they should've been within visual (eyeball) range in hyperspace, let alone within sensor range. Whitestars never used the Vorlon, hyperspace-fold technique. Whitestars were also routinely seen on sensors in "Babylon 5" both in normal space and in hyperspace. Theoretically, they could have been anywhere in a 360degree sphere around the point in normal space where they were going to jump TO, and the radius of the sphere of potential JUMP FROM points should be the length of each ship's vortex.

That whole mousetrap surprise just seems sloppy to me.

 

[Springer]

Yeah, plot contrivance was the other possibility I neglected to mention. You could probably fudge it and just say it is the vagaries of hyperspace, or the raider's scanners were not top of the range, or the White Stars did have the stealth tech that the Minbari had it, but the series wasn't consistent about this. The White Stars were detected by the Pollux's scanners in No Surrender No Retreat, for instance, when they shouldn't have been if they were using Minbari tech, yet in the same episode they are able to hide in hyperspace.

 

[KoshN]

Thirdspace is one of those movies where the more times I watch it, the less I like it, and I never did actually like it. I'd take The River of Souls over Thirdspace.

 

[JonFrain]

Thirdspace is one of those movies where the more times I watch it, the less I like it, and I never did actually like it. I'd take The River of Souls over Thirdspace.

I never rewatched those movies other than ITB. I liked the idea of the plotlines in Thirdspace and Legend of the Rangers but not the final products.

 

[KoshN]

Thirdspace is one of those movies where the more times I watch it, the less I like it, and I never did actually like it. I'd take The River of Souls over Thirdspace.

I never rewatched those movies other than ITB. I liked the idea of the plotlines in Thirdspace and Legend of the Rangers but not the final products.

Those are the two B5 movies that I'd like to drop into a black hole.

 

[ranger phil]

Thirdspace could and should have been so much more. the premise is fine.. it's just got so much filler. I feel it also fell down due to it not being scary enough. Could have been better.

LOTR fell over for me with those cheesy pike fighting scenes... and then that utterly retarded weapons array.

 

[Ubik]

Thirdspace could and should have been so much more. the premise is fine.. it's just got so much filler. I feel it also fell down due to it not being scary enough. Could have been better.


LOTR fell over for me with those cheesy pike fighting scenes... and then that utterly retarded weapons array.

I think the only B5 TV Movie I really rate is ‘In the Beginning’, because it serves a purpose and adds real depth to the story. Thirdspace is strictly okay. As you said, it would have done with being creepier. Also, the ‘kill it with a nuke’ finale was also a tad chliched. It seems like a wasted opportunity to delve deeper into Vorlon history.

I appreciate River of Souls, but only as an unintentional comedy, Martin Sheen hams it up so badly that I just couldn’t stop laughing the first time I saw it. That opening scene just kills me every time.

The less said about LOTR the better. Some of the ideas are fine, but the execution was awful. I don’t buy the excuse that it’s ‘just a pilot’, a pilot needs to be strong than it was to draw people in. It’s a fine example of why B5 didn’t need spin off shows.

 

[Ubik]

LOTR fell over for me with those cheesy pike fighting scenes... and then that utterly retarded weapons array.

I know it wasn’t scripted that way, but the fact that this got past the producers, director and JMS.

I remain slack jawed in awe that it wasn’t left on the cutting room floor. Someone should have demanded a reshoot of that scene. At the very least, they could have just kept the CGI, but removed the kicking, screaming floating woman, and just cut to scenes of people at consoles looking busy.

That scene has become the laughing stock of SF Space battles. I feel sorry for the actress that played the role, because that must have done more harm than good to her career!

 

[KoshN]

I think the only B5 TV Movie I really rate is ‘In the Beginning’, because it serves a purpose and adds real depth to the story. Thirdspace is strictly okay. As you said, it would have done with being creepier. Also, the ‘kill it with a nuke’ finale was also a tad chliched. It seems like a wasted opportunity to delve deeper into Vorlon history.

I appreciate River of Souls, but only as an unintentional comedy, Martin Sheen hams it up so badly that I just couldn’t stop laughing the first time I saw it. That opening scene just kills me every time.

The less said about LOTR the better. Some of the ideas are fine, but the execution was awful. I don’t buy the excuse that it’s ‘just a pilot’, a pilot needs to be strong than it was to draw people in. It’s a fine example of why B5 didn’t need spin off shows.

My favorite B5 movies were "In the Beginning" and "A Call to Arms" (which served as a fine lead in to a worthy spin off show.). If only TNT-Atlanta hadn't been such a massive collection of assholes.

 

[Ubik]

My favorite B5 movies were "In the Beginning" and "A Call to Arms" (which served as a fine lead in to a worthy spin off show.). If only TNT-Atlanta hadn't been such a massive collection of assholes.

Whilst I struggled with a lot of Crusade, it did have some good moments and the overall feel was far more interesting than LOTR from the go get. If anything deserved to continue, it was Crusade. I believe LOTR was the result of Sci-fi channel rejecting a continuation of Crusade. So they asked for something new they could run with. A real shame that the budgets had all been pre-agreed and they couldn’t fit Crusade in to transition it seamlessly from TNT. From what I heard, they tried hard to make it work, but ultimately couldn’t.

With Crusade, I’m confident it would have gone good placed had it been allowed to. With LOTR, I’m not so sure. Some of the later unfilmed Crusade scripts were definitely leading somewhere interesting. It still ain’t no B5, but it was a competent ship show, and there aren’t really any of those left now.

I read that there were hints that LOTR would have eventually joined up with the Crusade storyline, it may have even become a vehicle for sorting out those loose ends. Even so, I’m not exactly sad it didn’t got to series.

 

[Springer]

I appreciate River of Souls, but only as an unintentional comedy, Martin Sheen hams it up so badly that I just couldn’t stop laughing the first time I saw it. That opening scene just kills me every time.

Do you mean Ian McShane instead? The opening scene was the archaeological dig wasn't it? I rather quite liked that scene, the productions values seemed a step up from the usual B5 outdoor off-world sets. Unfortunately Ian McShane was just there for his pay cheque, which is a shame as I always liked him in Lovejoy.

At least Martin Sheen seemed to get into the spirit of the script and he seemed to quite enjoy doing it from the interviews I read. His approach to the character was a little bit unusual, but I'm a West Wing junkie so I give him the benefit of the doubt.

I think if River of Souls dropped the love bat stuff, which was silly, and the holobrothel stuff, which was silly and lowered the tone, and cut out a bit of the padding it would have made for a decent regular episode. Trouble is the logic of the denouement is daft – the holograms shouldn't have been able to exist outside of the holo-transmitters (much less be possessed by souls!)

Thirdspace is alright – it's throwaway, but fun. Interesting Wayne Barlow designs which, as you have all said, should have been scarier on film, but it was nice to get a bit more background on the Vorlons.

 

[KoshN]

I think Crusade had the potential to be scarier than Thirdspace, e.g. with Galen in one of the unfilmed scripts, on an Earthforce Black Projects base, seeing how Shadowtech is grown (using captured Narn and Minbari as source material.). Think "Invasion of the Body Snatchers" (1978) when Brooke Adams human form is consumed (becoming a dried husk) in forming her alien double. Crusade seemed to be delving into more horrific storylines.

 

[Ubik]

Do you mean Ian McShane instead? The opening scene was the archaeological dig wasn't it? I rather quite liked that scene, the productions values seemed a step up from the usual B5 outdoor off-world sets. Unfortunately Ian McShane was just there for his pay cheque, which is a shame as I always liked him in Lovejoy.

Nope, definitely mean Martin Sheen. Sorry, when I said ‘opening’, I should have been more specific. I’m thinking of Martin’s rather dramatic entrance as the Soul Hunter when he arrives at the station. The opening scene with Ian McShane was fine, if memory serves me well.

I think if River of Souls dropped the love bat stuff, which was silly, and the holobrothel stuff, which was silly and lowered the tone, and cut out a bit of the padding it would have made for a decent regular episode. Trouble is the logic of the denouement is daft – the holograms shouldn't have been able to exist outside of the holo-transmitters (much less be possessed by souls!)

Agreed. I tend to have an issue with ‘silly’ in B5. JMS schoolboy sense of humour and I just don’t get on too well. Many of his jokes fall very flat for me, especially when in the hands of less capable actors. Andreas and Peter somehow managed to make a lot of their more humorous lines work. Perhaps it’s all down to timing? But when you transfer that same style of humour, to say, Claudia Christian, it just doesn’t work at all. I dunno, perhaps the quality of the ‘comedy’ material varies depending on character. I think the ‘staunch and Russian’ characterization with Ivanova (mostly achieved by her mentioning she’s Russian every 5 minutes!) perhaps clashed with attempts at light heartedness. It’s an odd one, because Claudia was amazing in ‘Freaks and Geeks’ which served up some amazing comedy. It’s probably just a matter of taste, but when B5 goes silly, it tends to fall very flat.

I end up laughing at more stuff that isn’t intended to be funny. i.e. A lot of ‘River of Souls’ cracks me up, and some of the hammier acting throughout the series always gets a few knowing chuckles from me. I think a love of B-movies has helped me enjoy B5 without being too judgemental of tight budgets and sometimes questionable acting ability!

 

[JoeD80]

Some of us enjoy Joe's type of humor quite a bit. I think Claudia is very good at it too, Babylon 5 included (I think her scenes in Acts of Sacrifice are classic).

 

[Ubik]

Some of us enjoy Joe's type of humor quite a bit. I think Claudia is very good at it too, Babylon 5 included (I think her scenes in Acts of Sacrifice are classic).

I think that scene... the 'sex' one is a marmite thing... you either love it or hate it. I think Claudia carries funny material very well, it's just that my definition of good comedy seems to differ drastically with JMS'.

 

[Springer]

Some of us enjoy Joe's type of humor quite a bit. I think Claudia is very good at it too, Babylon 5 included (I think her scenes in Acts of Sacrifice are classic).

I think that scene... the 'sex' one is a marmite thing... you either love it or hate it. I think Claudia carries funny material very well, it's just that my definition of good comedy seems to differ drastically with JMS'.

I had always hated that scene but I watched it just the other week and while I still think it comes across as out of place, in some ways it's quite clever – maybe a little too clever.

Any humour with Londo or Vir works for me. And some of the gentle humour is nice too, like Sheridan falling asleep when invited to dinner by Delenn and Lennier – "That sound, is that part of human meditation?"

I think when B5 tries too hard with the humour, or reduces itself to schoolboy humour, is when it doesn't work so well.

 

[KoshN]

Some of us enjoy Joe's type of humor quite a bit. I think Claudia is very good at it too, Babylon 5 included (I think her scenes in Acts of Sacrifice are classic).

I think that scene... the 'sex' one is a marmite thing... you either love it or hate it. I think Claudia carries funny material very well, it's just that my definition of good comedy seems to differ drastically with JMS'.

Except for Paul Williams' comical reaction at the end of the 'sex' scene, I find the whole scene cringeworthy. I can barely force myself to watch Claudia's little song and dance number.

Claudia has a lot of comedic moments in B5, but the sex scene isn't one of them. It's just painfully awkward. Neither is her Thirdspace comment about wanting to see the captured raiders get a sniff of Drazi cooking funny. However, her "Next time, my way." and that look, after the sex scene in Acts of Sacrifice, is funny, to me anyway.

 

[Ubik]

I think when B5 tries too hard with the humour, or reduces itself to schoolboy humour, is when it doesn't work so well.

Springer, yes! This is my feeling EXACTLY. You nailed it.