Thirdspace and Ivanova

[Garovorkin]

Everyone seems to have different opinion about this issue of actors verses writer or whatever. But the truth is that without the wrtier/story teller really nothing of substance is possible at all. The writer creates the characters, creates the setting, the situation that characters find them selves in, he creates the theme of the story and he determines what the outcome of said story is. The actor's job is to interpret and play the character as close to the writers vision as possible. A great actor can not only achieve this, but can literally make the character into his or her own. But the question again, is that without the writer, "What is an actor?" is he still an actor if he or she has not character to interpret?

 

[Jade Jaguar]

But the question again, is that with out the writer, "What is an actor?"

A tree falling in the woods.

 

[Garovorkin]

Good one Jade, I wish I had thought of that one.

 

[KoshFan]

Does anyone know Clint Eastwoods phone number, I need to give him a call and tell him his directorial career just ain't going to happen because someone in a Kosh suit says so.

Fair enough, but I could easily extend it a step further and say that the actors and the director aren't getting far without the writer, but the writer can always walk away, repackage, and come out with an all-by-themselves book.

 

[Triple F]

Of course, it is a valid point. Mind you the Actor, the Director and the Writer are not going to get very far if the janitor with the key to the studio door decides not to open it. Or the Cameraman decides to take a holiday. Or the sound editor turns to religion and disappears up the nearest hill to find a tree to hug.

Why is that no film adaptation is ever as good as the book. Is it because the writer of the book suddenly looses his talent when he writes the screenplay. No. When you read a book you have the greatest sound editors, VFX experts, make-up artists, lighting engineers, actors, directors, stunt men, steady-cam operators and editors in the world to help you enjoy the story – there in your head and are collectively called your imagination.

You have to do that, written words have no meaning unless they can be interpreted. What percentage of communication is verbal again? You fill in the gaps – which are many - while reading the a book. You might not realise your doing . . . but you are.

In a film your imagination is replaced with what appears in front of you. The written (and then spoken) part of communicating to you is still there – AND still makes up only a fraction of what is being communicated in your direction. All that stuff that goes on in your head while reading the book is now replaced with REAL directors, actors, stunt men, make-up artists, etc. and of course they can never do as good a job as the wee fellas running around inside your head.

To say there would be no movie without the writer is correct, a bit dumb but correct. But there would be no story without your imagination while reading a book – or the real world counterparts to you imagination i.e. the cast and crew, when viewing a film.

Just in case that was to abstract and someone comes back with - but without the writer there is no story - again. Actors can work without writers – it’s called improvisation.

 

[hypatia]

Technically, the actors could pack it up and go into improv. Heck, back in the REALLY old days, theater (or some of it, at least) was totally improved. I recall hearing about that when I took drama. Everyone kind of knew what they needed to lead into (such as, if the troop had a juggler, somehow a situation needed to be arrived at that allowed him to juggle) but there was no actual script.

I find it ironic that all of this is a side-shoot of someone claiming JMS had no respect for actors. A charge which seems unsubstantiated from everything I've ever heard, and those who have really followed his career and public appearances quite closely. Besides, how can JMS be blamed if an actress decides to walk away from the job? It wasn't his choice.

I always got the impression that the actors loved to work for him, and especially loved his scripts and character development. Even Claudia did not leave over an argument with JMS; she left for career reasons (no matter whose version of events you consider, that much seems to be consistent). If the actors had no complaints, how can we?

As far as which is "more important", it's a useless argument. In a collaberative effort, the project is the result of everyone doing their thing. Change one element, and that "thing" changes, either slightly or drastically. You might as well debate which season is more important. It isn't really a valid question, since everything on this planet evolved according to the conditions that our four shifting seasons gave us.

And that's my very long-winded two cents in the whole matter.

 

[A_M_Swallow]

No art exists without an audience.

 

[GaribaldisHair]

I have never said that the story itself isn't of the utmost importance, but the fact is that in the visual medium the actors convey that story. In a written medium a great story can be a great story in and of itself, but in the visual medium a great story needs the actors to pull it off otherwise it ends up being a mediocre story.

Not sure I agree with that ... surely it is still a great story, just a mediocre movie.

 

[aajay]

"In the Beginning" and "Thirdspace" were filmed immediately after Season Four finished filming. Not being part of the regular season, the MOVs would have been a separate negotiation with the actors. Plus, as somebody noted, Claudia didn't sign the option extension that everybody else did but assured JMS and John Copeland that she was in if Season Five negotiations were successful. It was up to the last few days of the extended options that the negotiations concluded and the new contracts were faxed to the UK where most of the cast was for a convention. Just as that was happening, an article came out in one of the trades about Claudia not planning to participate. That's how the production company was informed of her opting out of Season Five.

Jan

Thanks for the info. So TNT had not yet "rescued" B5 yet when they were filmed? Seeing them billed as a TNT Production is what triggerd my question/confusion.
Didn't mean to rehash all the old Claudia vs JMS discusion.
Andy

 

[Jan]

Thanks for the info. So TNT had not yet "rescued" B5 yet when they were filmed? Seeing them billed as a TNT Production is what triggerd my question/confusion.

Originally, TNT was only interested in the rerun rights to the four seasons of B5 and wanted to do some movies to make the debut of the reruns an 'event'. In the script books, JMS related how Doug Netter finessed them into wanting a fifth season in order for the full story to be told.

Jan

 

[hypatia]

They wanted new movies to advertise a rerun event? That seems a very odd decision to me.

 

[Jan]

They wanted new movies to advertise a rerun event? That seems a very odd decision to me.

From Volume 10 of the script books:

Meetings were scheduled between us and the network's creative representatives and it was made clear that they wanted to start their re-runs with a bang sufficient to bring in new viewers and entice our prior viewers to return. When asked what they thought would constitute a sufficient-sized bang, they said "What about an original made-for-TNT Babylon 5 movie?"

We and WB countered with "How about four TV movies? This way you can have one new movie to drop in as each season rolls up, to spike viewer interest over the course of the run?"

Remember, this was just around the time that TNT was trying to convince audiences that "We Know Drama".

Jan

 

[hypatia]

Oh, god, yes I do remember that.

 

[GaribaldisHair]

That whole "separate deal" thing is also exactly the reason Garibaldi wasn't in the first two movies.

 

[aajay]

Originally, TNT was only interested in the rerun rights to the four seasons of B5 and wanted to do some movies to make the debut of the reruns an 'event'. In the script books, JMS related how Doug Netter finessed them into wanting a fifth season in order for the full story to be told.

Jan

Thanks again Jan. Didn't know that part about only wanting the reruns. Very interesting indeed.