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TMoS casting guessing game
- Thread starter Chris Springob
- Start date
rangerPHIL
Beyond the rim
Lets Face It.
We don't really know it is yet.
I do not think it HAS to be about the Telepath War.
It may be set within the 5 year arc - which would then make people want to buy the dvds and B5 Movies to learn more about the story - merchandising heaven for WB.
What about the decimation of planets by the Vorlons and Shadows which was only hinted at in season 4. A Universal catastrophe.
It could be one of many things...
and at this moment we do not know - we can only guess.
Annoying isn't it.........
We don't really know it is yet.
I do not think it HAS to be about the Telepath War.
It may be set within the 5 year arc - which would then make people want to buy the dvds and B5 Movies to learn more about the story - merchandising heaven for WB.
What about the decimation of planets by the Vorlons and Shadows which was only hinted at in season 4. A Universal catastrophe.
It could be one of many things...
and at this moment we do not know - we can only guess.
Annoying isn't it.........
colonyearth
Regular
Ah..."And so it begins"...again. The argumentative speculations as to the storyline for TMoS. I'm in agreement here with rangerPhil. We really have no idea as to the plotline for this, and JMS is a master of the red herring. It is truly a Vorlon style mystery that will only be revealed when we jump from the balcony in a collective move to jump JMS, throttle him and scream, "Why can't you just speak like a normal person!"
I've run the gamut of thoughts and ideas on this subject, and some of you can testify to that effect (especially those who recall the outright civil war between those who agreed with me and those who agreed with JDM back in January when the Great Maker spoke his first words in months and uttered the acronym "TMoS."
Since that time, I've watched S5 again and done my research and can now fully agree with JDM that there's a very big chance that we're getting a TW film. I now also can see a lot more potential for such a story than I could back then, since I had blanked on certain things said and done during S5.
IMHO this film could well be either a TW film or a DW film. I truly believe both are viable. Or JMS could throw us all off and go in a totally different direction all together. For all we know, he's going to delve into what he was setting up and planning for LoTR and we'll meet The Hand. (Remember, we have no idea who they really were or what they were about, but since JMS has the B5 universe mapped out in detail 1000 yrs in either direction, we know he did know what The Hand was and how they fit into the world of B5.)
I've said it before and now I'll say it again...if JMS and WB are smart, they're planning at the least a one-off film that, while it may conclude in a satisfactory manner, will clearly set-up the potential for two more films to make a trilogy. In that vein, a TW film would work. It could stand alone, but still set up and hint at other, bigger events yet to come (think S1 and how much arc material was being dished out and we didn't realize it until S2). Those events to come could well be the CRUSADE arc (which was also a part of the Drakh War), The Hand, or the Drakh War in full. We don't know the full details of the TW...who was involved exactly and how. It could well be intricately tied into the events that were to follow. One must ask oneself why the Drakh took 5 years to launch the attack on Earth? What finally prompted the attack and what else might Earth have done to provoke it in the Drakh's eyes. If there was anyone they would want to get to it would be Sheridan, Delenn, and the Minbari...why Earth? Could it have had something to do with the Shadows and their relationship with Psi-Corps? Could that then start a chain reaction of events that forever tied the destiny of telepaths to the Drakh?
Did The Hand have something to do with these events and the Drakh themselves?
And finally, could all of these events become a part of the larger picture that eventually led up to the full Drakh War and the fall of Londo, G'kar, and Centauri Prime? In theory, and clearly in my mind it's possible. And we're talking about JMS here who's imagination is fully capable and usually more than willing to tie such intricate webs together in ways he's never revealed. I mean, who saw Sinclair as Valen coming early on?
Thus, a TW first film could stand alone while setting up future events and intrigue. Then if it does as well as I hope and dream, JMS and WB have a whole sequence of events, spawned from the first film, that could conceivably tell an even larger tale and in the end be as epic as LOTR.
Oh, and for whoever said there were only two battles basically in the Drakh War. You're basing that statement on the things we've been allowed to see only. The Drakh conflict went on for almost 16 years...we don't fully know every battle, every conflict, every event. The Centauri books tell a good part of it, yes...but only from the perspective of Vir and Londo. What was going on everywhere else? We didn't actually see the events involving David Sheridan, we were told about them. Personally, I'd love to see them, and see the full, epic, all perspective view, realized on the big screen of what all happened. I want to see with my eyes the full build-up to Londo and G'Kar's deaths and see that event play out in full...knowing I'll be in tears the entire time. I want to see Vir ascend to the throne and see with my eyes that all will be ok.
There is still much to tell and those who think there isn't, either aren't paying very good attention to the detail, or have no faith in JMS.
"I see a [great story] reaching out of the stars!" Epic in scope and character, and as moving as the B5 series, itself.
JMS himself has spoken of the threads that tie events together. Do you not see how one event, the TW, could set into motion the events that followed? And thus, launch the potential for a trilogy? I clearly see it, but then I'm a storyteller, so I not only can see all of the possibilities, but tend to strive to do so. I pick apart the hints and moments and in my mind allow them to go in every direction possible to find the best and most exciting stories available that make sense and build upon what has come before while maintaining full respect and continuity.
As for pulling new butts into the seats, the TW has that potential and can still inform new audiences of prior events much easier. This story cannot and will not be set during the run of the series. If the film(s) are good enough, they alone will make people want to get the series DVD's to find out and see for themselves the full backstory that sounds and looks so cool when spoken of in the film(s).
Not to mention, I can see a massive ad campaign and marketing blitz. Any less simply will not suffice.
That is all for now...carry on.
CE
I've run the gamut of thoughts and ideas on this subject, and some of you can testify to that effect (especially those who recall the outright civil war between those who agreed with me and those who agreed with JDM back in January when the Great Maker spoke his first words in months and uttered the acronym "TMoS."
Since that time, I've watched S5 again and done my research and can now fully agree with JDM that there's a very big chance that we're getting a TW film. I now also can see a lot more potential for such a story than I could back then, since I had blanked on certain things said and done during S5.
IMHO this film could well be either a TW film or a DW film. I truly believe both are viable. Or JMS could throw us all off and go in a totally different direction all together. For all we know, he's going to delve into what he was setting up and planning for LoTR and we'll meet The Hand. (Remember, we have no idea who they really were or what they were about, but since JMS has the B5 universe mapped out in detail 1000 yrs in either direction, we know he did know what The Hand was and how they fit into the world of B5.)
I've said it before and now I'll say it again...if JMS and WB are smart, they're planning at the least a one-off film that, while it may conclude in a satisfactory manner, will clearly set-up the potential for two more films to make a trilogy. In that vein, a TW film would work. It could stand alone, but still set up and hint at other, bigger events yet to come (think S1 and how much arc material was being dished out and we didn't realize it until S2). Those events to come could well be the CRUSADE arc (which was also a part of the Drakh War), The Hand, or the Drakh War in full. We don't know the full details of the TW...who was involved exactly and how. It could well be intricately tied into the events that were to follow. One must ask oneself why the Drakh took 5 years to launch the attack on Earth? What finally prompted the attack and what else might Earth have done to provoke it in the Drakh's eyes. If there was anyone they would want to get to it would be Sheridan, Delenn, and the Minbari...why Earth? Could it have had something to do with the Shadows and their relationship with Psi-Corps? Could that then start a chain reaction of events that forever tied the destiny of telepaths to the Drakh?
Did The Hand have something to do with these events and the Drakh themselves?
And finally, could all of these events become a part of the larger picture that eventually led up to the full Drakh War and the fall of Londo, G'kar, and Centauri Prime? In theory, and clearly in my mind it's possible. And we're talking about JMS here who's imagination is fully capable and usually more than willing to tie such intricate webs together in ways he's never revealed. I mean, who saw Sinclair as Valen coming early on?
Thus, a TW first film could stand alone while setting up future events and intrigue. Then if it does as well as I hope and dream, JMS and WB have a whole sequence of events, spawned from the first film, that could conceivably tell an even larger tale and in the end be as epic as LOTR.
Oh, and for whoever said there were only two battles basically in the Drakh War. You're basing that statement on the things we've been allowed to see only. The Drakh conflict went on for almost 16 years...we don't fully know every battle, every conflict, every event. The Centauri books tell a good part of it, yes...but only from the perspective of Vir and Londo. What was going on everywhere else? We didn't actually see the events involving David Sheridan, we were told about them. Personally, I'd love to see them, and see the full, epic, all perspective view, realized on the big screen of what all happened. I want to see with my eyes the full build-up to Londo and G'Kar's deaths and see that event play out in full...knowing I'll be in tears the entire time. I want to see Vir ascend to the throne and see with my eyes that all will be ok.
There is still much to tell and those who think there isn't, either aren't paying very good attention to the detail, or have no faith in JMS.
"I see a [great story] reaching out of the stars!" Epic in scope and character, and as moving as the B5 series, itself.
JMS himself has spoken of the threads that tie events together. Do you not see how one event, the TW, could set into motion the events that followed? And thus, launch the potential for a trilogy? I clearly see it, but then I'm a storyteller, so I not only can see all of the possibilities, but tend to strive to do so. I pick apart the hints and moments and in my mind allow them to go in every direction possible to find the best and most exciting stories available that make sense and build upon what has come before while maintaining full respect and continuity.
As for pulling new butts into the seats, the TW has that potential and can still inform new audiences of prior events much easier. This story cannot and will not be set during the run of the series. If the film(s) are good enough, they alone will make people want to get the series DVD's to find out and see for themselves the full backstory that sounds and looks so cool when spoken of in the film(s).
Not to mention, I can see a massive ad campaign and marketing blitz. Any less simply will not suffice.
That is all for now...carry on.
CE
colonyearth
Regular
Just a side note to those who think a film isn't viable. According to Box Office Magazine, if you take the domestic gross of any film, you can then triple it, at least, when adding in foreign box office and DVD sales to estimate the film's income. That also does not account for tie-in sales and marketing. So if you figure at the least, 10 million people in the US alone go see the film, that's 10 million times an average of $8.00/seat. That comes to $80 million gross domestically alone. Now triple that to include foreign box office and DVD sales, and a B5 feature film could and will probably bring in approximately $240 million gross (and those are conservative figures).
Can we say...hello success? Even ST: Nemesis, though not considered a huge box office hit by a long shot here, ended up more than doubling its cost in the long run when Paramount added foreign and DVD into the mix. (Which I guess expains why they're apparently letting Berman do another one -- *shudders at the thought*.)
Anyway, this is a good example as to why WB is so excited about B5. And like I said this doesn't even account for tie-in sales, which could have something to do with JMS' "in spades" statement. You have to figure that WB is going to want this to be very successful, so the marketing campaign I believe is going to be very big and aggressive.
Yay!
CE
Can we say...hello success? Even ST: Nemesis, though not considered a huge box office hit by a long shot here, ended up more than doubling its cost in the long run when Paramount added foreign and DVD into the mix. (Which I guess expains why they're apparently letting Berman do another one -- *shudders at the thought*.)
Anyway, this is a good example as to why WB is so excited about B5. And like I said this doesn't even account for tie-in sales, which could have something to do with JMS' "in spades" statement. You have to figure that WB is going to want this to be very successful, so the marketing campaign I believe is going to be very big and aggressive.
Yay!
CE
rangerPHIL
Beyond the rim
I find myself agreeing in part with CE.
For me in B5 ( although B5 is the best ) there was always a more intricate and fantastic universe waiting to be let loose as it were. I always got the impression that JMS had only scratched the surface of it.
We will now get to see just how fantastic a universe JMS created on the big screen.
In regards to The Telepath war ( please dont hate me for this but it has to be said ) - for me it might be too X-men2 for the public to go for it. Super beings fighting amongst themselves has been done before. Also there would have to be some prior knowledge of the TW for the people who are watching B5 for the first time. I just don't see JMS being able to cover the whole of the TW including set up and pay off in just 2-3 hours. ( i might be wrong ).
Because the B5 universe is so vast and intricate there are many things the film could be about. Dont get me wrong I would PAY LOADS to go and see a film about the telepath war, but I just see Warners and JMS going for an all out stand alone based within the B5 universe - maybe something to do with the Shadows and Vorlons themselves, or maybe even the shadow war that Valen took part in. There are just so many possibilities it drives me mad.
Then again with JMS that may be the point....
:devil:
For me in B5 ( although B5 is the best ) there was always a more intricate and fantastic universe waiting to be let loose as it were. I always got the impression that JMS had only scratched the surface of it.
We will now get to see just how fantastic a universe JMS created on the big screen.
In regards to The Telepath war ( please dont hate me for this but it has to be said ) - for me it might be too X-men2 for the public to go for it. Super beings fighting amongst themselves has been done before. Also there would have to be some prior knowledge of the TW for the people who are watching B5 for the first time. I just don't see JMS being able to cover the whole of the TW including set up and pay off in just 2-3 hours. ( i might be wrong ).
Because the B5 universe is so vast and intricate there are many things the film could be about. Dont get me wrong I would PAY LOADS to go and see a film about the telepath war, but I just see Warners and JMS going for an all out stand alone based within the B5 universe - maybe something to do with the Shadows and Vorlons themselves, or maybe even the shadow war that Valen took part in. There are just so many possibilities it drives me mad.
Then again with JMS that may be the point....
:devil:
A_M_Swallow
Regular
Do we know what the split is between the theatre, tax and studio is?
Re: Drakh war speculation. Your average Joe moviegoer -- NOT a sci-fi fan -- is more likely to pay to see a sci-fi flick if he or she can identify it. This means no wierd cheesy aliens (i.e., the Drakh).
Aside from a few choice players, the Teep War is a primarily human affair.
And, as the Shadows were known to have DEFINITELY infiltrated Psi Corps, I can see the "Memory of Shadows" thing working really well. The mind has memories, the mind has secrets and shadows, and they're really what are in question, right?
Aside from a few choice players, the Teep War is a primarily human affair.
And, as the Shadows were known to have DEFINITELY infiltrated Psi Corps, I can see the "Memory of Shadows" thing working really well. The mind has memories, the mind has secrets and shadows, and they're really what are in question, right?
vacantlook
Super Moderator
The telepath war would require too much prior knowledge to make it viable for a movie format, but Valen and the Minbari (no humans) fighting the Shadows wouldn't?
colonyearth
Regular
The theatres, themselves get a relatively small piece of any cut...which is why they've taken to showing commercials before movies now to help pay for some of the overhead.
As for taxes...considering WB is part of one of the 5 big corporate conglomerates that the Bush administration and the government in general seem to want to make pay very little anymore...who knows...I'm not a corporate or entertainment lawyer or accountant.
The main thing you should realize here is that studios go by the gross. When you see box office numbers, those are based on the gross.
Either way you look at it...WB, at even $200 million will at the least probably triple their investment...and remember, those were somewhat conservative numbers.
Face it...B5 is a very bankable franchise...especially in the vacuum of Trek (dieing) and SW (pre-quels will be done by the time TMoS would be released). Call it serendipity, call it great timing, hell call it prophecy...either way, there couldn't have been a better time for this.
Perhaps the Vorlons caused the stars to align for us.
rangerPHIL
Beyond the rim
exactly
No, it isn't written in stone, but it seems the likeliest prospect for many reasons:
1. This is presumably JMS's most thoroughly-thought-out concept, since he said while B5 was on the air that he wanted to do a feature on it, and has not allowed it to be told in any other form.
2. It is a recognizable kind of concflict for those who don't know the B5 universe - thus easy to set up.
3. It plays into all kinds of other things JMS hinted at (and thought about) a lot: the use of shadowtech by renegade EA forces (the the "memory" of shadows); secret conspiracies and cabals; the technomage mystery; the fate of Lyta and Lenier; and the question of just who "ran" Clarke.
1. This is presumably JMS's most thoroughly-thought-out concept, since he said while B5 was on the air that he wanted to do a feature on it, and has not allowed it to be told in any other form.
2. It is a recognizable kind of concflict for those who don't know the B5 universe - thus easy to set up.
3. It plays into all kinds of other things JMS hinted at (and thought about) a lot: the use of shadowtech by renegade EA forces (the the "memory" of shadows); secret conspiracies and cabals; the technomage mystery; the fate of Lyta and Lenier; and the question of just who "ran" Clarke.
A_M_Swallow
Regular
The gross is what they publish but there should be an accountant somewhere ensuring that
Production costs + marketing costs < net income
You may then convert to gross and add in the % to the stars.
To break even in the USA, Warner Brothers probably have to make the film for less than $60 million. (That is genuine costs, rather than the tax and artist fiddle accounting.)
Jade Jaguar
Regular
No, of course the Teep War isn't written in stone, and as others have said, there are many, many possibilities. Still, The Memory of Shadows has a real ring to it, and as Channe explains, it ties in nicely. We all know that JMS has been saving the TW for something, so it has to be considered a strong possibility, even if it doesn't pan out.
One thought crossed my mind - TMoS could be to the B5 Series as the Spiderman movie was to Spiderman comics. In other words, it could be a retelling of a portion of the existing arc, i.e. the break way from Earth Gov, the Shadow War, something from the series, done in grand, feature style, to establish the B5 movie franchise, and be a setup for more films. I don't see the age of the original cast as being a problem. It wouldn't bother me, and non-B5 fans wouldn't know.
One thought crossed my mind - TMoS could be to the B5 Series as the Spiderman movie was to Spiderman comics. In other words, it could be a retelling of a portion of the existing arc, i.e. the break way from Earth Gov, the Shadow War, something from the series, done in grand, feature style, to establish the B5 movie franchise, and be a setup for more films. I don't see the age of the original cast as being a problem. It wouldn't bother me, and non-B5 fans wouldn't know.
rangerPHIL
Beyond the rim
after reading the comments on the other board about JMS appearence in NY.
CRUSADE / TECHNOMAGES - the movie could be about the aftermath of 'a call to arms' - to simply re-jig 'CRUSADE' for the big screen. I also always got the impression that the technomages would have a much larger part to play in the CRUSADE storyline as it progressed.
Most of the B5 characters could be included and it would probably result in one hell of a dust off against the drakh and the shadowtech forces of earthdome. The telepath war also took place in this timeline so that could also be included - but not form the basis for the story .
CRUSADE / TECHNOMAGES - the movie could be about the aftermath of 'a call to arms' - to simply re-jig 'CRUSADE' for the big screen. I also always got the impression that the technomages would have a much larger part to play in the CRUSADE storyline as it progressed.
Most of the B5 characters could be included and it would probably result in one hell of a dust off against the drakh and the shadowtech forces of earthdome. The telepath war also took place in this timeline so that could also be included - but not form the basis for the story .
rangerPHIL
Beyond the rim
also.......
I have tried to access JMSNEWS.COM for about an hour now ( 19:15pm GMT ) and I cannot access the site.
The Vorlon in me is asking could this be because the site is down preparing itself for a massive bombardment of posts when the announcement on B5 the Movie is made?. The Announcement after all is imminent.
Or has its server gone tits up?
I have tried to access JMSNEWS.COM for about an hour now ( 19:15pm GMT ) and I cannot access the site.
The Vorlon in me is asking could this be because the site is down preparing itself for a massive bombardment of posts when the announcement on B5 the Movie is made?. The Announcement after all is imminent.
Or has its server gone tits up?
