In DVD boxed sets of hour long drama series (actually more like 45 minutes minus commercials) usually come with 3 episodes per disc. In the video release, "A Voice in the Darkness" parts 1 and 2 were on different tapes as the VHS tapes came in twos and it was an even numbered episode. Shouldn't it be merged (as well as "War Without End") into one double episode on the disc release? It would make for better viewing unless one only watches one episode a week or something like that. Who needs the "Last week on Babylon5..." that they just watched a minute ago. I don't know how they do the math on the distributions of shows on the DVDs, but if it fits I think it would be a good idea.
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Two Parters
- Thread starter ElScorcho
- Start date
Joseph DeMartino
Moderator
Most of the "one hour" series I've seen released as full-seasons sets have four episode per disc. I expect this to be the case with Babylon 5. (In fact, one of JMS's messages may have even mentioned that there will be six discs in the S1 set, which works out to four episodes on 5 discs, and two episodes on the 6th disc, presumably with some of the extras.)
If this is correct, what you suggest is impossible, because "War Without End Part 1" and "Part 2" will be on separate discs. Even if it weren't, I would object to the episodes being re-edited in any way. If Warner Bros. is sensible about the placement of chapter stops (as Fox has been with The X-Files) you should be able to skip the "previously on" section which takes the place of the teaser for those episodes - that is, it precedes the main titles. (Fox placed chapter stops so that you can skip the main titles of each episode when you're watching a bunch in a row.) This acheives the result you want, without doing violence to the episodes themselves. (Even if there weren't appropriate chapter stops you could simply fast forward through the "boring part." There are only two two-part episodes in the entire series. How often would you have to watch the show before this became a major issue for you?)
If they're going to do something fancy to re-jigger the episodes, I'd rather they use seamless branching to let me skip the Zarg plot in "Grey 17", and the whole Mutai section of "TKO" - so I can enjoy the good parts of those episodes. /forums/images/icons/smile.gif
Regards,
Joe
If this is correct, what you suggest is impossible, because "War Without End Part 1" and "Part 2" will be on separate discs. Even if it weren't, I would object to the episodes being re-edited in any way. If Warner Bros. is sensible about the placement of chapter stops (as Fox has been with The X-Files) you should be able to skip the "previously on" section which takes the place of the teaser for those episodes - that is, it precedes the main titles. (Fox placed chapter stops so that you can skip the main titles of each episode when you're watching a bunch in a row.) This acheives the result you want, without doing violence to the episodes themselves. (Even if there weren't appropriate chapter stops you could simply fast forward through the "boring part." There are only two two-part episodes in the entire series. How often would you have to watch the show before this became a major issue for you?)
If they're going to do something fancy to re-jigger the episodes, I'd rather they use seamless branching to let me skip the Zarg plot in "Grey 17", and the whole Mutai section of "TKO" - so I can enjoy the good parts of those episodes. /forums/images/icons/smile.gif
Regards,
Joe
the same thing with the TNG sets, 4 episodes to a disk, the last disk having 2 episodes and the small ammount of bonus features. The chapter placement on the TNG disks also allow for skipping directly to the "beginning" of the episode.
If WB is smart, which is a controversial matter, they will do this.
If WB is smart, which is a controversial matter, they will do this.
Joseph DeMartino
Moderator
BTW, the episode is "A Voice in the Wilderness"
The issue you raised is slightly more complicated than I indicated, because we do not know which episode order Warner Home Video will use for the disc. Because of production issues and season breaks during the initial run, certain episodes were not aired in their intended slots within each season. Subsequent reruns of the show have generally followed the original airdate order (except in the case of "Day of the Dead", where there were obvious continuity issues.) And in the case of one episode ("Voices of Authority"), JMS decided that the "wrong" order actually worked better, and revised his "master list."
Changing the episode order has implications for the two parters. If the original airdate scheme is used, and there are 4 episode per disc, "A Voice in the Wilderness Parts 1 and 2" would be on the same disc, while "War Without End" would be split across two discs. If JMS's preferred order is used, "A Voice in the Wilderness" gets split across two discs, and "WWE" ends up on a single disc. Either way it would be impossible to treat both two-parters the same way, yet another reason for not re-editing either of them.
Regards,
Joe
The issue you raised is slightly more complicated than I indicated, because we do not know which episode order Warner Home Video will use for the disc. Because of production issues and season breaks during the initial run, certain episodes were not aired in their intended slots within each season. Subsequent reruns of the show have generally followed the original airdate order (except in the case of "Day of the Dead", where there were obvious continuity issues.) And in the case of one episode ("Voices of Authority"), JMS decided that the "wrong" order actually worked better, and revised his "master list."
Changing the episode order has implications for the two parters. If the original airdate scheme is used, and there are 4 episode per disc, "A Voice in the Wilderness Parts 1 and 2" would be on the same disc, while "War Without End" would be split across two discs. If JMS's preferred order is used, "A Voice in the Wilderness" gets split across two discs, and "WWE" ends up on a single disc. Either way it would be impossible to treat both two-parters the same way, yet another reason for not re-editing either of them.
Regards,
Joe
Jade Jaguar
Regular
I really doubt that WBHV cares how the two parters come out, but I too would prefer them to be together on one disc, and would prefer JMS's order. Strategic placement of the extra material could be used to get them to come out together. But like I said, WBHV will neither care, or do that.
Kraig
Regular
To avoid spliting War Without End I & II, WHV could put the three episodes A Late Delivery From Avalon, Ship of Tears and Interludes and Examinations on one disc with some extras.
That would put 4 episodes on disc 1,2,3 & 5; with 3 episodes and extra material on disc 4 & 6. /forums/images/icons/wink.gif
That would put 4 episodes on disc 1,2,3 & 5; with 3 episodes and extra material on disc 4 & 6. /forums/images/icons/wink.gif
B5_Obsessed
Regular
>>What was the continuity issue with "Day of the Dead?"
Londo and G'Kar leave on their trip to Centauri Prime, are mysteriously present on B5 for Day of the Dead, and then are back sleeping in the Palace the following week.
It's not a *glaring* continuity error since they could have actually travelled to B5 and back to Centauri Prime within the space of a week, but there it is.
Londo and G'Kar leave on their trip to Centauri Prime, are mysteriously present on B5 for Day of the Dead, and then are back sleeping in the Palace the following week.
It's not a *glaring* continuity error since they could have actually travelled to B5 and back to Centauri Prime within the space of a week, but there it is.
PillowRock
Regular
I have to say that splitting a 2-parter across discs doesn't bother me that much when the DVD's are only being sold as a season set. If they were selling the discs individually and split a 2-parter across 2 discs then it would bug me.
That said, if I was organising it I would place the extras so as to keep the multi-part episodes together. I would have to think about exactly which grouping I thought was best. I agree that it would be nice to restore the episodes to JMS' order, so that Sheridan doesn't "see" the Icarus exploding after he has already learned that isn't what happened and other such little oddities.
That said, if I was organising it I would place the extras so as to keep the multi-part episodes together. I would have to think about exactly which grouping I thought was best. I agree that it would be nice to restore the episodes to JMS' order, so that Sheridan doesn't "see" the Icarus exploding after he has already learned that isn't what happened and other such little oddities.
Jade Jaguar
Regular
That's what I had in mind, Kraig, thus for one instance proving the great Joe D wrong when he said it would be IMPOSSIBLE to treat both two-parters the same way. Still don't think WBHV will have the wit to do it, and save us having to get up and change discs in the middle. /forums/images/icons/wink.gif
A_Ranger
Regular
I don't really care if the two-parters are on different DVD's. Yeah it would be nice to have them together, but it's not that big a deal. Just change the disc. Simple as that. Minor issue. I'm more concerned with the quality of the audio and video and the extras than with something as trivial as seeing a two-parter all at once.
I admit, it doesn't really matter that much (especially since I have a five-disc changer), but sometimes it would be nice to see a little editing done to smooth over breaks in the story - i.e. commercials - especially when there is no actual scene break. One instance that springs to mind is the episode near the beginning of season four where Kosh and Ulkesh are fighting. There's just this blank space in the middle of the scene where the commercials would have been.
well the thing is, the ads are just not just put in there - the script is written that way, if you read any of the scripts they actually say "end of act 1", "start of act 2" etc, not like a movie which is done with not ads intended (so they are just put in when it airs on tv). ad breaks go between the acts /forums/images/icons/smile.gif
KoshN
Super Moderator
</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
<font color="yellow"> Originally posted by A_Ranger: </font color>
What was the continuity issue with "Day of the Dead?"
[/quote]
It would certainly make better sense for example in Season 5, if the broadcast order was reversed for "The Ragged Edge" and "Day of the Dead."
"The Ragged Edge" belongs before "Day of the Dead," not after it.
<font color="yellow"> Originally posted by A_Ranger: </font color>
What was the continuity issue with "Day of the Dead?"
[/quote]
It would certainly make better sense for example in Season 5, if the broadcast order was reversed for "The Ragged Edge" and "Day of the Dead."
"The Ragged Edge" belongs before "Day of the Dead," not after it.
A_Ranger
Regular
The commerical breaks do suck, but it would be a lot of work to get around it. For one, the music is structured to end on those cliffhanger-you've-got-to-stay-for-the-rest notes. Then, when the show comes back on after the commercial break, a lot of times the music has changed in tone during the same scene. So that would have to be redone, or it would just sound odd.
Second, not all act transitions flow right into another. For instance, yesterday I was watching "And There all the Honor Lies." Right before a commerical break, Lennier knocks out Zack. Then commerical break. Right after the commercial break...Lennier isn't in the shot anymore because it's focused right on Zack on the floor. Taking out the fade to black commercial would make for an odd cut in this instance.
Though it would be very nice to have things restructured so as to not have any interruptions, it doesn't sound very plausible. Not to mention WB has no incentive to do so. So we'll be stuck with annoying breaks. Oh well.
Second, not all act transitions flow right into another. For instance, yesterday I was watching "And There all the Honor Lies." Right before a commerical break, Lennier knocks out Zack. Then commerical break. Right after the commercial break...Lennier isn't in the shot anymore because it's focused right on Zack on the floor. Taking out the fade to black commercial would make for an odd cut in this instance.
Though it would be very nice to have things restructured so as to not have any interruptions, it doesn't sound very plausible. Not to mention WB has no incentive to do so. So we'll be stuck with annoying breaks. Oh well.
Right. So it doesn't work in all cases. Sometimes the commercial break is a break in real time and the action goes back to the same scene a few moments later. But as for the dramatic music thing, that is a transition method that is even used to bridge scenes that directly follow each other.
/forums/images/icons/cool.gif
So screw it. I'll be happy just as long as they don't plop a big honking "PLACE COMMERCIAL HERE" frame on the screen between acts.
/forums/images/icons/tongue.gif
/forums/images/icons/cool.gif
So screw it. I'll be happy just as long as they don't plop a big honking "PLACE COMMERCIAL HERE" frame on the screen between acts.
/forums/images/icons/tongue.gif
Chris Springob
Regular
</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
If Warner Bros. is sensible about the placement of chapter stops
(as Fox has been with The X-Files) you should be able to skip the
"previously on" section which takes the place of the teaser for those
episodes - that is, it precedes the main titles.
[/quote]
Are you sure about that? That's not the way I remember it. There are
four occasions in the series that I can think of that include a "previously
on" section: Voice in the Wilderness 2, WWE2, Hour of the Wolf, and Fall
of Centauri Prime. IIRC, each of those had a "previously on" section,
followed by a teaser, followed by the credits. The "previously on"
section didn't replace the teaser. It preceded it.
</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
Londo and G'Kar leave on their trip to Centauri Prime, are
mysteriously present on B5 for Day of the Dead, and then are back
sleeping in the Palace the following week.
[/quote]
</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
"The Ragged Edge" belongs before "Day of the Dead," not after it.
[/quote]
It originally aired "Day of the Dead" - "In the Kingdom of the Blind" - "A
Tragedy of Telepaths" - "Phoenix Rising" - "Ragged Edge". This makes
no sense because ItKotB and ToT shows Londo and G'Kar on Centauri
Prime, despite the fact that you see them come back from Centauri Prime
in DotD.
But putting DotD after PR (as is done in the SFC order) doesn't really fix
things because you also see them coming back from Centauri Prime in
"The Ragged Edge"! Yes, you see them returning to the station in two
different episodes. So the only explanation is that they went there twice.
Thus, the placement of DotD doesn't really matter much because there's
an inconsistency either way.
Not exactly sure why Kosh insists that it makes more sense with RE before
DotD. You see them coming back from Centauri Prime in both episodes,
so I don't think it makes any difference.
If Warner Bros. is sensible about the placement of chapter stops
(as Fox has been with The X-Files) you should be able to skip the
"previously on" section which takes the place of the teaser for those
episodes - that is, it precedes the main titles.
[/quote]
Are you sure about that? That's not the way I remember it. There are
four occasions in the series that I can think of that include a "previously
on" section: Voice in the Wilderness 2, WWE2, Hour of the Wolf, and Fall
of Centauri Prime. IIRC, each of those had a "previously on" section,
followed by a teaser, followed by the credits. The "previously on"
section didn't replace the teaser. It preceded it.
</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
Londo and G'Kar leave on their trip to Centauri Prime, are
mysteriously present on B5 for Day of the Dead, and then are back
sleeping in the Palace the following week.
[/quote]
</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
"The Ragged Edge" belongs before "Day of the Dead," not after it.
[/quote]
It originally aired "Day of the Dead" - "In the Kingdom of the Blind" - "A
Tragedy of Telepaths" - "Phoenix Rising" - "Ragged Edge". This makes
no sense because ItKotB and ToT shows Londo and G'Kar on Centauri
Prime, despite the fact that you see them come back from Centauri Prime
in DotD.
But putting DotD after PR (as is done in the SFC order) doesn't really fix
things because you also see them coming back from Centauri Prime in
"The Ragged Edge"! Yes, you see them returning to the station in two
different episodes. So the only explanation is that they went there twice.
Thus, the placement of DotD doesn't really matter much because there's
an inconsistency either way.
Not exactly sure why Kosh insists that it makes more sense with RE before
DotD. You see them coming back from Centauri Prime in both episodes,
so I don't think it makes any difference.
Joseph DeMartino
Moderator
</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
each of those had a "previously on" section,
followed by a teaser...
[/quote]
That makes those sections part of the teaser, which still means they can be skipped. IIRC the entire teaser for WWE was taken up by the episode recap, but its been awhile since I've seen it. But if the recap is only part of the teaser (which typically only runs a couple of minutes anyway) than it has even less annoyance potential than I thought, and I can't imagine why anyone would make an issue of it. What do they run, 30 seconds, 70? Go get a soda. /forums/images/icons/smile.gif
Regards,
Joe
each of those had a "previously on" section,
followed by a teaser...
[/quote]
That makes those sections part of the teaser, which still means they can be skipped. IIRC the entire teaser for WWE was taken up by the episode recap, but its been awhile since I've seen it. But if the recap is only part of the teaser (which typically only runs a couple of minutes anyway) than it has even less annoyance potential than I thought, and I can't imagine why anyone would make an issue of it. What do they run, 30 seconds, 70? Go get a soda. /forums/images/icons/smile.gif
Regards,
Joe
