Update from JMS

[MartinRoth]

OK, where would it go?

I'm a bit hesitant about listing specific cable outlets, since I don't have access to the data about their programs and audiences, and I'm not inclined to spend the time to do the research to try to piece it together.

But, depending on the nature of the project, some of these might work:

25 - USA - Cable
35 - TBS - Cable
43 - SPIKETV (for men)
60 - SCIFI - Cable
62 - FX - Cable
66 - HBO - Premium Cable
68 - Cinemax - Premium Cable
69 - Showtime - Premium Cable

(TNT is off the list solely due to the history and bad blood from Crusade.)

I was hoping for a miniseries, something over 2 hours in length,

Ah. Fair enough. But that's what you want, not necessarily what anybody else is looking to do...

 

[PillowRock]

OK, where would it go?

From that list, the (at least theoretical) possibilities that I see are:

25 - USA - Cable
36 - TNT - Cable
43 - SPIKETV (for men)
60 - SCIFI - Cable
62 - FX - Cable
66 - HBO - Premium Cable
69 - Showtime - Premium Cable


One can legitimately argue that some of them are less likely than others .... for various reasons. However, all of them produce original series, mini-series, and/or TV movies; and none of them are tied into a specific niche that would preclude a B5 movie (even if such an SF project would not quite be in the majority of their programming).

 

[Infested Londo]

OK, where would it go?

From that list, the (at least theoretical) possibilities that I see are:

25 - USA - Cable
36 - TNT - Cable
43 - SPIKETV (for men)
60 - SCIFI - Cable
62 - FX - Cable
66 - HBO - Premium Cable
69 - Showtime - Premium Cable


One can legitimately argue that some of them are less likely than others .... for various reasons. However, all of them produce original series, mini-series, and/or TV movies; and none of them are tied into a specific niche that would preclude a B5 movie (even if such an SF project would not quite be in the majority of their programming).

Man this is so cute... JMS said there's a possibilty of MAYBE doing SOMETHING B5 related , but we shouldn't get our hopes up...

Now, if deciding on topics, cast, cost of production, type of project, the length of it and the channels it will probably be aired on isn't getting our hopes up... I don't know what is


Yea, yea, I know, we can DrEaM... It's still funny though, the way we all jump to conclusions, each feeding each other's dreams with more unestablished information...

And as usual with latest JMS projects, we'll probably just get disappointed...
Another dream, another requiem, ey?..

 

[taichidave]

If I'm not mistaken, Battlestar Galactica got a big screen release.

 

[KoshN]

I'm a bit hesitant about listing specific cable outlets, since I don't have access to the data about their programs and audiences, and I'm not inclined to spend the time to do the research to try to piece it together.

But, depending on the nature of the project, some of these might work:

25 - USA - Cable
35 - TBS - Cable
43 - SPIKETV (for men)
60 - SCIFI - Cable
62 - FX - Cable
66 - HBO - Premium Cable
68 - Cinemax - Premium Cable
69 - Showtime - Premium Cable

(TNT is off the list solely due to the history and bad blood from Crusade.)

25 - USA - Cable - off the list because it's "Universal."
35 - TBS - Cable - off the list because it's "Turner" (similar to the reason TNT is off the list)
43 - SPIKETV (for men) - off the list because it's "Viacom/Paramount/Trek."
60 - SCIFI - Cable - off the list because it's "Universal."
62 - FX - Cable - There's a possibility, a slight possibility.
66 - HBO - Premium Cable - off the list because of reduced audience due to being Premium Cable.
68 - Cinemax - Premium Cable - off the list because of reduced audience due to being Premium Cable.
69 - Showtime - Premium Cable - off the list because of reduced audience due to being Premium Cable.

Looks like FX is the only one, and they're not big on sci-fi stuff. They're mostly cop stuff and hand me downs/encore showings from other channels, kind of like The "Sci-Fi" Channel without the slight sci-fi pretense.

I was hoping for a miniseries, something over 2 hours in length,

Ah. Fair enough. But that's what you want, not necessarily what anybody else is looking to do...

Well, JMS is best at writing long odes (series, or at the very least "mini"-series), not feature length projects (~2 hours).

Ref. Re: JMS: Episodic storytelling

...In truth it's very difficult for me to tell a short story; with me, everything's a long russian novel. Even with the comics being 22 pages each, they are still part of a larger story or arc, and the RS and Midnight Nation stories were/are both just plain big for a form that usually measures arcs in 3-6 issues.

Just long-winded, I guess.

jms

(jmsatb5@aol.com)
(all message content (c) 2003 by synthetic worlds, ltd.,
permission to reprint specifically denied to SFX Magazine
and don't send me story ideas)

 

[MartinRoth]

Man this is so cute...

Flattery will get you nowhere...

Yea, yea, I know, we can DrEaM...

There's a difference between dreaming and speculating, and there's a lot of both going on.

I, for one, do not wish to either inflate people's hopes and dreams or shatter them. I try to post information and, when pressed, realistic speculations based on information and knowledge about the media industry. I figure I might as well try to inject some reality into the proceedings, which will rarely correspond with either the best case or the worst case coming out of people's dreams.

And as usual with latest JMS projects, we'll probably just get disappointed...
Another dream, another requiem, ey?..

I think the only thing here that is certain is that, no matter whether these projects happen, and no matter what they turn out to be, most people are going to be disappointed.

Because I think what everyone really wants is to experience the Babylon 5 series for the first time all over again, and that can't happen...

 

[PillowRock]

off the list because of reduced audience due to being Premium Cable

I don't understand. Why do you think that all premium channels automatically are removed from the possibility of buying a mini-series? I left Cinemax off of my list because they have no history (that I have noticed) of doing so. HBO and Showtime each have funded a number short series that I would think are at least as expensive as B5's budget ever was, or would be likely to be now. They may not generally have the CGI FX that B5 would use, but they tend to do much more outdoor location shooting which is notoriously more expensive than anything that B5 does.

 

[PillowRock]

The other thing about the premium channels is that they, since they work on an entirely different business model than the basic cable networks, they don't need to have as many viewers.

Do you think that USA or TNT, with their larger number of (at least potential) viewers could afford the renewal deals that HBO has had to give out in order to keep The Sopranos?

 

[MartinRoth]

Looks like FX is the only one,

Quite frankly, your reasons for eliminating the other channels strike me as rather odd.

Eliminating the Universal channels, given that one of them has been the TV home of B5 for a couple of years and has aired one original B5 project, seems pretty unjustified.

Eliminating the premium channels due to their "reduced audience" doesn't make sense either, especially considering that they're probably producing more original cable programming than anybody else.

And eliminating TBS because it's Turner which is owned by Time Warner, just like B5, is positively loopy.

Yes, there may very well be good reasons why a B5 project wouldn't fit on any or all of the cable networks listed. But you haven't found them.

 

[gangster]

off the list because of reduced audience due to being Premium Cable

I don't understand. Why do you think that all premium channels automatically are removed from the possibility of buying a mini-series? I left Cinemax off of my list because they have no history (that I have noticed) of doing so. HBO and Showtime each have funded a number short series that I would think are at least as expensive as B5's budget ever was, or would be likely to be now. They may not generally have the CGI FX that B5 would use, but they tend to do much more outdoor location shooting which is notoriously more expensive than anything that B5 does.

Show did fund 5 seasons of Stargate Sg-1 and look at in now since Scifi took over development from Season six on: Doing well in DVD, in Season 7 with Season 8 contracted for by Scifi, plus a spinoff series in development. I suspect Showtime has kicked itself for not continuing Sg-1 since ever scifi series they tried to replace it with tanked. Could be Showtime is interested in a B5 Universe spinoff.

 

[KoshN]

Yea, yea, I know, we can DrEaM... It's still funny though, the way we all jump to conclusions, each feeding each other's dreams with more unestablished information...

I was looking at it from the output end of things. If it happened, where would it go on TV? And conversely, if there's no place for it to go on TV, it would not happen.

 

[KoshN]

I don't understand. Why do you think that all premium channels automatically are removed from the possibility of buying a mini-series? I left Cinemax off of my list because they have no history (that I have noticed) of doing so. HBO and Showtime each have funded a number short series that I would think are at least as expensive as B5's budget ever was, or would be likely to be now. They may not generally have the CGI FX that B5 would use, but they tend to do much more outdoor location shooting which is notoriously more expensive than anything that B5 does.

How many people who are B5 fans are going to fork over the extra money each month to get the channel for the new B5 universe miniseries or TV movie? Are there enough of those people plus the ones who already get the channel to justify the cost of a new B5 universe miniseries or TV movie to that channel? If not, that channel probably won't go for it.

It's not like a B5 universe miniseries or TV movie is a "mainstream" show like "The Sopranos" (a crime show with a harder edge, stuff that cannot be shown on non-premium cable). The closest to a channel going for a sci-fi show like that would be Showtime (the home of JMS's "Jeremiah"), but JMS just left that show (because of MGM, not Showtime). Still, after that, do you think Showtime is going to want to back another JMS project so soon after him leaving Jeremiah? I dunno, but I'm skeptical.

 

[taichidave]

How many people who are B5 fans are going to fork over the extra money each month to get the channel for the new B5 universe miniseries or TV movie?

I wouldn't do it for Jeremiah. I simply don't watch enough of Showtime's programming to justify it.

Any one movie or miniseries is not going to put me over the edge. Not even a new full blown B5 series.

I'd just wait for it on DVD.

Now if we were talking the B5 Universe Channel, I'd consider it...

 

[KoshN]

Do you think that USA or TNT, with their larger number of (at least potential) viewers could afford the renewal deals that HBO has had to give out in order to keep The Sopranos?

I've already thrown out USA and TNT for other reasons.

HBO could well not be able to afford a B5 miniseries because of the money they've already shelled out to keep "The Sopranos."

 

[Joseph DeMartino]

How many people who are B5 fans are going to fork over the extra money each month to get the channel for the new B5 universe miniseries or TV movie?

Why would that even be an issue in anybody's calculations?

1) You seem to be assuming that no B5 fans currently subscribe to these services. What are you basing that on? I'll bet tons of us watch Sex in the City or The Wire. We wouldn't have to change a thing to catch the new B5.

2) The pay cable services generally use series like Dead Like Me, Six Feet Under and The Sopranos to set themselves apart from the competition. Although they manage to secure exclusive first airing rights to many theatrical films, the fact is that by the time they land on HBO or Showtime, these films have already been on Pay Per View and DVD/VHS. Eventually they're going to turn up on whatever service doesn't get them first. Original programming - sports and series - are what attract someone who is only going to shell out for one pay movie channel. So if I'm a Showtime subscriber, I might switch to HBO to get something new in the B5 universe.

3) Why would I have to fork over money "each month" for a TV movie or Mini that is going to run four or five times in one month. Plenty of time to tape it or digitally record it. I can sign up for HBO or Showtime for a month and drop the service like a live grenade as soon as the closing credits roll.


Regards,

Joe

 

[KoshN]

Quite frankly, your reasons for eliminating the other channels strike me as rather odd.

Eliminating the Universal channels, given that one of them has been the TV home of B5 for a couple of years and has aired one original B5 project, seems pretty unjustified.

Look at B5: Legend of the Rangers. What makes you think that The "Sci-Fi" Channel, the home of such high class productions as Scare Tactics, Dream Team, and Tremors: The Series (which isn't bad as "camp"), the home of such wonderful, top drawer movies as Interceptor Force, Interceptor Force 2, Dragon Fighter, Python, and Sabertooth, is going to want to put a respectable amount of money behind a B5 universe TV movie or miniseries after seeing what ratings the B5: Legend of the Rangers pilot got? Remember, it does not have the Spielberg or Herbert name, so what makes you think they'll do justice to a B5 universe TV movie or miniseries after what happened with that Rangers pilot?

Please tell me, 'cause I want to know.

Sci-Fi has demonstrated an anti-space show bent where JMS is concerned. Remember them going with the intergalactic space vampires over JMS's Polaris?

USA is another Universe channel, and I have a lot of respect for them because they've gone for The Dead Zone, Monk, and Peacemakers. I applaud them for that, but if there's a Universe channel that gets a sci-fi miniseries or TV movie, it won't be USA. It'd be Sci-Fi, and Sci-Fi seems to be a little JMS shy, and has been since January 19, 2002.

Eliminating the premium channels due to their "reduced audience" doesn't make sense either, especially considering that they're probably producing more original cable programming than anybody else.

See my response to Pillowrock's post.

And eliminating TBS because it's Turner which is owned by Time Warner, just like B5, is positively loopy.

Baloney. There's bad blood there. Both of these channels are out of Atlanta, the fountainhead of the Crusade problems. Do you think that there's no crosstalk between TNT and TBS after what happened between JMS and TNT? Do you think that TNT wouldn't try their best to discourage/prevent TBS from going for a JMS miniseries or TV movie, after what TNT did to Crusade? Of course they would.

 

[KoshN]

Now if we were talking the B5 Universe Channel, I'd consider it...

Wouldn't that freak TNT out?! :devil:

 

[KoshN]

Why would that even be an issue in anybody's calculations?

Times are hard. The economy's in the toilet. This is a time when a lot of people are out of work and are having to cut out the "nice to have" stuff. Premium cable would be listed under the heading of "Nice to Have."

1) You seem to be assuming that no B5 fans currently subscribe to these services. What are you basing that on? I'll bet tons of us watch Sex in the City or The Wire. We wouldn't have to change a thing to catch the new B5.

I am not assuming "that no B5 fans currently subscribe to these services." My "the ones who already get the channel" would include B5 fans and those who are currently not B5 fans. I just didn't make a distinction. I was going for "new people" that a B5 universe miniseries or TV movie would bring to the channel plus those who already get the channel. That combined group of subscribers, is that enough to justify the costs of a B5 miniseries or TV movie to the channel?

2) The pay cable services generally use series like Dead Like Me, Six Feet Under and The Sopranos to set themselves apart from the competition. Although they manage to secure exclusive first airing rights to many theatrical films, the fact is that by the time they land on HBO or Showtime, these films have already been on Pay Per View and DVD/VHS. Eventually they're going to turn up on whatever service doesn't get them first. Original programming - sports and series - are what attract someone who is only going to shell out for one pay movie channel. So if I'm a Showtime subscriber, I might switch to HBO to get something new in the B5 universe.

Good point.

3) Why would I have to fork over money "each month" for a TV movie or Mini that is going to run four or five times in one month. Plenty of time to tape it or digitally record it. I can sign up for HBO or Showtime for a month and drop the service like a live grenade as soon as the closing credits roll.

Don't some of these require "Digital Cable" with the attendant hassles of the digital cable box? Adding and deleting that might be a pain in the butt.

 

[PillowRock]

what makes you think they'll do justice to a B5 universe TV movie or miniseries after what happened with that Rangers pilot?

That's an entirely separate question from what was under discussion. The question was "What networks are *possible* outlets?" *not* "Who would do it justice if they got any control over it?"

And things change with time. What happened with B5:LotR is not necessarily the attitude that would prevail forever afterwards in B5 related negotiations with SciFi. And what changes could be on either side of the negotiations. The difference could be that WB decides (after seeing actuall DVD profits) that they would rather let SciFi have a piece of any future home video pie (and get something out it) than keep 100 % of nothing. (I have no idea if such shift is likely at WB production, just pointing out the theoretical possibility.)

USA is another Universe channel, <snip> if there's a Universe channel that gets a sci-fi miniseries or TV movie, it won't be USA. It'd be Sci-Fi

I think that assumes that the overall Universal corporate octopus is much more monolithic and centralized in its decision making than it actually is.

Eliminating the premium channels due to their "reduced audience" doesn't make sense either, especially considering that they're probably producing more original cable programming than anybody else.

See my response to Pillowrock's post.

I still don't agree that the reasoning that you proposed (number of fans that will decide to subscribe based on a single series, mini-series, or special being picked up) is how HBO and Showtime select their series. If it was nothing new would ever be commissioned by them. You could argue *now* that there are a fair number of people who eventually got HBO for The Sopranos, but there is no way that anyone would have predicted that with *any* confidence back when they signed the contracts to produce the first season. Do you really think that Showtime thinks that renewing or not renewing "Dead Like Me" will directly change their number of subscribers by a number large enough to pay for all of their production costs? No, it's more of a cumulative buzz affect. And B5's Hugos etc. could add their additional little piece to a premium networks overall buzz (They seem to really like touting the phrase "Award winning", regardless of what the award was.)

 

[MartinRoth]

What makes you think that The "Sci-Fi" Channel [...] is going to want to put a respectable amount of money behind a B5 universe TV movie or miniseries after seeing what ratings the B5: Legend of the Rangers pilot got?

Perhaps because they expect that an "original cast" B5 production would draw a bigger audience? Perhaps because their decision-making criteria for a one-shot movie are different from their decision-making criteria for a potential continuing series? Perhaps because their situation and needs now are different from their situation and needs of nearly two years ago?

Or perhaps not. I am by no means stating that they would pick up on a potential B5 project. I am simply saying that there is no known legitimate reason to assume that they wouldn't if the proper circumstances arose.

Please tell me, 'cause I want to know.

That's almost too good a setup line to pass on, but I'll pass on it...

USA is another Universe channel,

Universal, I think you mean...

but if there's a Universe channel that gets a sci-fi miniseries or TV movie, it won't be USA. It'd be Sci-Fi,

Ah. Spoken to them about that, have you? Or are you just making it up?

and Sci-Fi seems to be a little JMS shy, and has been since January 19, 2002.

JMS shy? In what way would that be? Just because they don't air the one new TV project he's done since then? There are lots of other producers who haven't had anything on Sci-Fi in that period, so does that stand as evidence that they'll never get anything on Sci-Fi? That sounds like a silly argument.

See my response to Pillowrock's post.

Response seen. You are, of course, once again confusing the issues of a one-off movie vs. a continuing series, and also making huge assumptions about information you don't have, such as the viewership that the premium channels would expect.

Once again, they very well might not prove to be interested, but we have no reason to assume that.

Both of these channels are out of Atlanta, the fountainhead of the Crusade problems.

Er, actually, the Crusade problems came out of TNT's LA offices, not Atlanta...

Do you think that TNT wouldn't try their best to discourage/prevent TBS from going for a JMS miniseries or TV movie, after what TNT did to Crusade?

Yes, quite frankly, I think they wouldn't try their best.

I think they wouldn't even have the slightest clue it was going on in the first place. And even if they did happen to find out, I think they quite simply wouldn't give a shit, because it didn't involve them or their jobs. And because they're bright enough to realize that the entire world doesn't revolve around the B5 universe.