War without end 1+2

[jumptheshark]

I am doing sort of a binge watch of the show and in watching War without end part 1 and 2 and asked myself why JMS kept Doyle and O'Hare away from being on the screen together since their relationship was so key to the first season

There was a lot stuff going on so it may have due to time restraints

but would have been nice to have them together one more time

 

[Looney]

I am doing sort of a binge watch of the show and in watching War without end part 1 and 2 and asked myself why JMS kept Doyle and O'Hare away from being on the screen together since their relationship was so key to the first season

There was a lot stuff going on so it may have due to time restraints

but would have been nice to have them together one more time

That is a really good question. I love the reasoning in the episode, but yeah I wonder if there was more to it. I'm sure someone out there knows.

 

[Jan]

I am doing sort of a binge watch of the show and in watching War without end part 1 and 2 and asked myself why JMS kept Doyle and O'Hare away from being on the screen together since their relationship was so key to the first season

Keep in mind that I *don't* know if it's true or not, okay? But there's long been a rumor that Doyle refused to work with O'Hare. My personal feeling is that there may be some truth to it because I've never seen or heard Doyle be anything but boorish when talking about O'Hare. And that was before finding out about O'Hare's illness. Afterward, I made a point of emailing an email I know was active for Doyle to make sure he knew about O'Hare's illness but never heard back.

 

[Jan]

Looks like JMS answered your question. Glad it's settled but sorry my impression of Doyle isn't improved.

@straczynski
Following Following @straczynski
More J. Michael Straczynski Retweeted jtshark
Though I don't thing Jerry fully understood what was wrong with Michael, he knew something wasn't right and often went out of his way to get under Michael's skin just to watch him spin out. With Michael still fragile I couldn't afford to let anything go wrong with the two parterJ. Michael Straczynski added,
jtshark

@jtshark71
@straczynski silly question. I am re-watching War without end 1 and 2 and I am curious why you made the decision to keep Jerry Doyle and O'hare apart for both episodes-was based upon taking away from the plot(a lot happened) or was there other things involved?
6:50 PM - 2 Jul 2018

 

[jumptheshark]

Looks like JMS answered your question. Glad it's settled but sorry my impression of Doyle isn't improved.

@straczynski
Following Following @straczynski
More J. Michael Straczynski Retweeted jtshark
Though I don't thing Jerry fully understood what was wrong with Michael, he knew something wasn't right and often went out of his way to get under Michael's skin just to watch him spin out. With Michael still fragile I couldn't afford to let anything go wrong with the two parterJ. Michael Straczynski added,
jtshark

@jtshark71
@straczynski silly question. I am re-watching War without end 1 and 2 and I am curious why you made the decision to keep Jerry Doyle and O'hare apart for both episodes-was based upon taking away from the plot(a lot happened) or was there other things involved?
6:50 PM - 2 Jul 2018

One thing I love about JMS he will answer your question honestly

 

[Looney]

WOW! that is an honest story. I don't really feel I think worse of Doyle because JMS stated that he didn't think "Jerry fully understood." I think it depends on what was done and why. And I should point out that even though I never met the man while he was with us, I never thought I would have liked to know him once I started learning more about him through his public life. Doyle that is, not O'Hare. I would have LOVED to meet O'Hare. Like I've said I didn't really see Season One until the late 90s so that is when I became an O'Hare fan. I don't ever recall seeing him on a guest list at any of the Conventions I could have attended back in the late 90s, so I never met him.

All that being said I will restate that I think it is handled brilliantly in the episodes. :thumbsup:

 

[jumptheshark]

WOW! that is an honest story. I don't really feel I think worse of Doyle because JMS stated that he didn't think "Jerry fully understood." I think it depends on what was done and why. And I should point out that even though I never met the man while he was with us, I never thought I would have liked to know him once I started learning more about him through his public life. Doyle that is, not O'Hare. I would have LOVED to meet O'Hare. Like I've said I didn't really see Season One until the late 90s so that is when I became an O'Hare fan. I don't ever recall seeing him on a guest list at any of the Conventions I could have attended back in the late 90s, so I never met him.

All that being said I will restate that I think it is handled brilliantly in the episodes. :thumbsup:

happy I can add something to the community--sad it has to be this story first

 

[Jan]

WOW! that is an honest story. I don't really feel I think worse of Doyle because JMS stated that he didn't think "Jerry fully understood." I think it depends on what was done and why.

Whereas I couldn't think any worse of Doyle. While I did see him gracious to a few fans, I never saw him anything but boorish when it came to O'Hare and I saw the same boorishness with fans too often, too. Sorry to speak ill of the dead but that's simply how he was.

 

[jumptheshark]

WOW! that is an honest story. I don't really feel I think worse of Doyle because JMS stated that he didn't think "Jerry fully understood." I think it depends on what was done and why.

Whereas I couldn't think any worse of Doyle. While I did see him gracious to a few fans, I never saw him anything but boorish when it came to O'Hare and I saw the same boorishness with fans too often, too. Sorry to speak ill of the dead but that's simply how he was.

How can I put this when it comes to understanding Doyle

1) He was a stock Broker--and there is a certain common trait amongst stock brokers in my opinon
2) He was raised in Brookly in the 60's and 70's--I got cousin's who are from Brooklyn from the same era--they sometimes do not realize when they are being nasty
3) He had a conservative upbringing(I do not mean political)--if someone looked weak--you poked them to make them tougher--some call it the John Wayne approach

 

[Jan]

How can I put this when it comes to understanding Doyle

1) He was a stock Broker--and there is a certain common trait amongst stock brokers in my opinon
2) He was raised in Brookly in the 60's and 70's--I got cousin's who are from Brooklyn from the same era--they sometimes do not realize when they are being nasty
3) He had a conservative upbringing(I do not mean political)--if someone looked weak--you poked them to make them tougher--some call it the John Wayne approach

I don't need or want to understand him (and note that I left his politics out of it). He was an ass.

And not just to fans and O'Hare. When it was still thought that there would be three segments in the first (only, as it turns out) Doyle was in negotiations still when the third segment was dropped. Despite him not having a contract, he went on the air and threatened to sue the production. Another ass move.

 

[Looney]

I don't need or want to understand him (and note that I left his politics out of it). He was an ass.

I still wish I could say I met him once because he and O'Hare are the only two major cast members I never met. And I believe he did many more conventions than O'Hare. And I know there is one convention he backed out of before we could meet, Space City Comic Con 2014. I think there were two others I was going to meet him at back in the 90s that one of us canceled going. But I know I likely would not have liked him, so meeting him would have just been a completest thing. I have no patience for Celebs who let you know you are burdening them at Conventions. I understand what they are putting up with, so I have no problem with them occasionally getting frustrated, but when you know right off the bat going up to them is not something they want then that is a problem.

And not just to fans and O'Hare. When it was still thought that there would be three segments in the first (only, as it turns out) Doyle was in negotiations still when the third segment was dropped. Despite him not having a contract, he went on the air and threatened to sue the production. Another ass move.

Are you saying that there is a possibility he hindered The Lost Tales from being what it was meant to be? :wtf:

 

[Jan]

Are you saying that there is a possibility he hindered The Lost Tales from being what it was meant to be? :wtf:

Nope, not that I know of at all. From what he said, he had legitimate concerns that IF something as news-crucial as Sept. 11 were to happen again while he was shooting Lost Tales that he be released to cover that. Keep in mind that his base was in Arizona and they shot LT in Vancouver. Now whether his demands had something to do with the third segment being dropped, I don't have any way of knowing. BUT given that the third segment would have been virtually all CGI and composite, I've always believed that was why it was dropped.

 

[jumptheshark]

How can I put this when it comes to understanding Doyle

1) He was a stock Broker--and there is a certain common trait amongst stock brokers in my opinon
2) He was raised in Brookly in the 60's and 70's--I got cousin's who are from Brooklyn from the same era--they sometimes do not realize when they are being nasty
3) He had a conservative upbringing(I do not mean political)--if someone looked weak--you poked them to make them tougher--some call it the John Wayne approach

I don't need or want to understand him (and note that I left his politics out of it). He was an ass.

And not just to fans and O'Hare. When it was still thought that there would be three segments in the first (only, as it turns out) Doyle was in negotiations still when the third segment was dropped. Despite him not having a contract, he went on the air and threatened to sue the production. Another ass move.

I did not realize he threatened to sue without a contract. The only thing I heard was that his segment was cut due to finances

 

[Looney]

Nope, not that I know of at all. .

Oh okay. If that had been what you were saying that would have seriously "hindered" my ability to stay as calm and tranquil as I usually am.

 

[Jan]

I did not realize he threatened to sue without a contract. The only thing I heard was that his segment was cut due to finances

I'd read somebody claim that he was threatening to sue and paid to be able to access that particular show of his. He admitted that he hadn't signed a contract but that he felt that his deciding to accept the contract just as the offer was rescinded was enough to sue. I have no idea whether he did so or not. My feeling was that he was just shooting off his mouth.

 

[jumptheshark]

1) I did tell Jerry a few times to knock it off but sometimes talking to Jerry was like talking to a goldfish; and 2) No, if that were a factor I would not have written the story for Jerry in Lost Tales in the first place. We ran out of time and money is all.


I asked him if he talked to Doyle and if it lead to Doyle's segment being dropped

 

[Looney]

I so hate that we were denied more Lost Tales. Of course I'm not sure how much money that DVD made. I remember a lot of buzz back in 2002 or 2003 about the Season DVD releases making a lot of money, which is why WB seemed interested in future projects around that time and that eventually led to interest in The Lost Tales around 2006. Is that correct? I think I am remembering that the right way. The DVDs made WB a lot of money and around 02/03 they were interested in some more B5 projects, but then tragedy struck and that slowed things down. But then they got renewed interest about making more money from DVDs around 2006 and that is when we got The Lost Tales, right?

I've always assumed The Lost Tales release was not much of a financial success or we would have seen more. I know I've come across people who loved the show back when it was on and never knew The Lost Tales existed. And The Lost Tales came out in 2007. I think the major issue now is that there is soooo much out there you couldn't get people the info that a B5 DVD release was coming out without spending big bucks on advertising. Really the only way B5 could ever come back is a theatrical movie or major streaming service series pick up; and I mean major streaming service series pick up of new material. Yes having B5 on Amazon Prime will likely gain us a few new fans, but I doubt it will start a revolution. I hope it does, but the more logical path to gaining more recognition is a serious marketing campaign about new material that will excite future fans and ignite old fans. And for those who ask "Why?" you need only look to future. If we want B5 to be remembered as it deserves to be then there must be new generations who are exposed to it. If not then it will fade in to obscurity.