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War Without End questions

Sinclair

Sinclair

Moderator
I just finished rewatching the War Without End two parter and started thinking of some things I hadn't thought of before. Maybe some people here can help me out.

1.After Emperor Mollari dies and Vir becomes emperor, does he too get a keeper? It would be weird to see Vir acting totally out of character from what we've come to expect from him.

2.When Garibaldi is leaving B4 after the evacuation, Ambassador Sinclair is outside the station in a spacesuit and tries unsucessfully to warn Garibaldi to watch his back. I assume he was referring to the events in Chrysalis but don't you think Sinclair would understand the repurcussions of attempting to change the timeline? I guess that was just out of his deep friendship and he couldn't help but try to warn him.

3.After Sinclair goes back 1000 years and the crew of the Whitestar discover that he is in fact Valen, how widespread is that knowledge afterwards? Is it common knowledge or a closely guareded secret?
 
Is it common knowledge or a closely guareded secret?
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I think they would have to keep it mostly a secret; to reveal it to too many people would cause major social upheaval and possibly near-anarchy in Minbari society.
 
The answer to the first question is given at the end of the Centauri Trilogy.

So... get reading.

Well, go on.

Now.
 
Ah. I just wanted to tell...

...but indeed, that is a major spoiler for the Centauri trilogy. Provided lack of spoiler code... if you want to know, I will exlain. Otherwise, what Crazybillyo said... does indeed apply. :D
 
When Garibaldi is leaving B4 after the evacuation, Ambassador Sinclair is outside the station in a spacesuit and tries unsucessfully to warn Garibaldi to watch his back. I assume he was referring to the events in Chrysalis but don't you think Sinclair would understand the repurcussions of attempting to change the timeline? I guess that was just out of his deep friendship and he couldn't help but try to warn him.
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From the Lurker's Guide
I think his message to Garibaldi was a momentary lapse, it wasn't something he'd planned, his emotions momentarily got in the way of his reason.
 
Its the same as when Delenn tells Sheridan not to go to Z'ha'dum. She knows what could happen, but makes an emotional decision.
 
3.After Sinclair goes back 1000 years and the crew of the Whitestar discover that he is in fact Valen, how widespread is that knowledge afterwards? Is it common knowledge or a closely guareded secret?
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I assume that it's known among high-ranking Minbari (Grey Council, caste leaders, and clan leaders) but not too many others. The reason I say this is that in the episode "Atonement," Delenn makes reference to Valen being "Jeffrey Sinclair, a human," in front of her own clan leader (I forget his name). Since he's not really part of the inner-circle of characters that was there at the time of Sinclair's leaving and he's not a member of the Grey Council, I figure that maybe a lot of upper-eschelon Minbari (Religious Caste, at least) have this knowledge, but that it's so scandalous that it is a closely guarded secret.
 
That whole Sinclair message to Garibaldi was done to make this episode match up cleaner with Babylon Squared. It was always noted that a major part of the storyline changed from when B2 was written to WWE, mainly Sinclair's arc to a degree and the bringing in of Sheridan.

I do buy the fact that maybe he did it as an emotional reaction. But WHY? He obviously knew Garibaldi lived through the experience, and by late Season 3 it had made him a stronger and sharper person. Why on Earth would Sinclair warn him of something that didn't kill him?

It was just tossed in there to make the 2 episodes come together better.
 
...and what about the Vorlons. Why were they out of their encounter suits? It seems a bit...un-Vorlonlike.
 
The Vorlons were out of their suits to provide legitimacy to Valen. Also, I believe this was the first time that they had made contact with the Minbari for a long time, so they would have to be out of their suits to be recognized at all.

Delenn warned Sheridan not to go to Z'ha'dum; Sinclair warned Garibaldi to "watch his back." Both Delenn and Sinclair know that the people they warn will survive, but they warn them anyway, out of compassion for their pain. Besides, they both know on some level that their warning will go unheard or unheeded -- because they know it will happen. They were there.
 
It was grand, wasn't it. Nothing like two Valerias hanging about the place. ;)
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Hey, now that's a good point...

I'd never really thought of it before, but if Vorlons mask themselves as Valeria when they appear before a Minbari, then what did those two guys that found Valen see??? TWO Valerias??? Or was Valeria even a recognized figure at that time?

I guess my real question is...Did they recognize both Vorlons as important Minbari figures from history, or was this the first time these historical "Minbari" made an appearance?
 
I do buy the fact that maybe he did it as an emotional reaction. But WHY? He obviously knew Garibaldi lived through the experience, and by late Season 3 it had made him a stronger and sharper person. Why on Earth would Sinclair warn him of something that didn't kill him?
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I too think it was more an emotional thing. Sinclair may have warned him of something that didn't kill him because it may have also stopped Earth Force One from being destroyed, or at least allowed some people to escape it before it blew. That's just my theory, but I don't think Sinclair put that much thought into it. He probably just didn't want to see his good friend get hurt the way he did.
 
then what did those two guys that found Valen see??? TWO Valerias??? Or was Valeria even a recognized figure at that time?

I guess my real question is...Did they recognize both Vorlons as important Minbari figures from history, or was this the first time these historical "Minbari" made an appearance?
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I think they saw Valeria and another "aide" to Valen.

For reference, from the Lurkers' Guide page for "The Fall of Night":
And in each case, re: Kosh, what they saw was not the *head* of their belief, but in essence a supporting being of light; it wasn't G'Quon, but G'Lan that G'Kar saw, which was a being that story tells us served G'Quon. So you wouldn't see the head of the religion, since there can only be one of those, and lots of Vorlons, but each tends to have a supporting cast, for lack of a better term. Those are what we perceive the vorlons to be.
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I figure that the Minbari visions would likely follow the same pattern.

And I suspect that this was the first time they had been seen, since it was the first time Valen appeared...
 
Spoilers for the Vir/Keeper question...




































No he doesn't have a Keeper :) Londo's keeper detached itself from Londo after he and G'Kar died at each others hands but Vir killed it with the Centauri Emporer Seal before it could get away. Then Vir and the head Drakh had a fight and the Drakh ended up getting killed by Centauri guards (as did the remainder of the Drakh)
 
My memory might not be exact (can verify later)... but I think I remember a slight difference. Although I may instead remember a synthesis of two different stories (one fan fiction, another "proper" B5)...

...unless I am mistaken, while many Drakh died when their hold on Centauri Prime slipped... Shiv'kala lived and returned later, to assassinate Vir. In that he would fail, and then he would die (which finally released David Sheridan from his unwelcome "guest").

Edit: verified my memory against the book. It was indeed that way.
 
I do buy the fact that maybe he did it as an emotional reaction. But WHY? He obviously knew Garibaldi lived through the experience, and by late Season 3 it had made him a stronger and sharper person. Why on Earth would Sinclair warn him of something that didn't kill him?
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First, because it nearly killed him, and if you had a close friend who was going to be nearly killed, wouldn't you feel the urge to at least warn him? That's why it's an *emotional* reaction--emotions aren't rational. You normally wouldn't attempt to kill a person, unless, of course, that person was holding a gun to your mother's head. Sinclair's message also didn't give out details--only told to him "watch his back." *We* know what that's in reference to, but Season 1 Garibaldi doesn't, even if he heard the message.

Second, remember that Sinclair wasn't around when Michael woke up. He really doesn't know how the shot affected Garibaldi. He knows that he lived through it, that's all.
 
I agree with an earlier poster - it was done to match up the dialogue from Babylon Squared. Originally Sinclair going back to be Valen was supposed to happen Season 5, episode 22. That's why he was older, and he says "It all happened... exactly as I remembered it". In the new context of Season 3, it doesn't make much sense. Originally it would have been after 20 years of struggle and choices, and it would have made more sense (particularly as in Garabaldi's original arc he probably was to die at the end of 2262 - as foreshadowed in 'Babylon Squared', along with the destruction of B5).

In the WWE version, Sinclair probably did it to warn Garabaldi about the attempt on his life at the end of 2258 (see Chrysalis).
:)
 
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