War Without End

[Capt. Neville]

Joe:

Since you're the Authority here, and since it's almost your birthday I'll ask you this:

So okay, it's kinda obvious the gaps (or seams, as you put it) in the transition from the old storyline to the new, esp. Sinclair's aging, his statement about "I tried to warn them", and the present time atmosphere thing you mentioned.

So how would those three elements have fit in the old storyline? All I know of the old one is what I've read posted here at B5LR, but from what little I know, it still wouldn't make much sense (apart from the aging, at least).

Thx,
--mcn

 

[B5Elf]

[/b][/QUOTE]
I've read (on Lurker's I think) that the chrysalis device came from Epsilon 3. It was brought aboard Babylon 4 with the equipment that Zathras brought. I was looking for this last night but I never caught it. Anyway, Sinclair takes it back with him. He has to be completely Minbari in order for the Minbari of that time to accept Babylon 4 and him. They would not have accepted a hybrid of some other race that they had never seen, nor would they have trusted him. The chrysalis device then apparently is left on Minbar somewhere and Delenn then gets it in the current time. She gave it to Draal sometime after she was done with it.

Apparently the transformation process can be adjusted and she chose to retain some Minbari characteristics so to be obviously both in order to be "a bridge between races".

[/B][/QUOTE]

Right, but I was just wondering if they were "programmable" as to the "amount" of transformation that occured. I know that Sinclair had to be pretty much completely Mimbari to be accepted.

I think I will leave it at: Sinclair gets device from somewhere (Epsilon 3 etc..) Sincliar becomes Mimbari. End of story. Too confusing...I feel like I'm in a Star Trek episode.

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[GKarsEye]

How do you know there are three triluminaries, though? We only know of two: the one Delenn uses, and the one on the staff (which we know are different ones, because she uses it, keeps it, then breaks the council a year later, where we see the staff with the other triluminary on it).

It seems more likely that there are only two: both created at Epsilon 3 and brought by Zathras to the whitestar, one of which Sinclair used, and one of which went on the staff. In the "present" time line, Delenn just took the one not on the staff with her to B5.

Wait a minute, so what does Delenn do with her triluminary when she's done with it? Does she return it to Epsilon 3, Minbar, or keeps it?

Anyway, it seems like people are just assuming that there are three because Minbari like to have three of everything.

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"You do not make history. You can only hope to survive it."

 

[channe]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GKarsEye:
How do you know there are three triluminaries, though? We only know of two: the one Delenn uses, and the one on the staff (which we know are different ones, because she uses it, keeps it, then breaks the council a year later, where we see the staff with the other triluminary on it).<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

When Delenn gets her triluminary, the Minbari that gives it to her mentions that there are three triluminaries.

The first time I saw War Without End, I knew who Valen was. That spoiled the surprise. However, I had been watching it at the time with a friend of mine, who had been going through B5 every so often. She saw WWE... and after we realized who Valen *truly* was, she turned to me and said, "Channe - I'm an addict."

And never missed an episode after that.

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The writer's life is not meant to be a happy one. We all accept that going in. -JMS

 

[GKarsEye]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>When Delenn gets her triluminary, the Minbari that gives it to her mentions that there are three triluminaries. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, I guess that settles that matter, then.

To get rid of all this confusion, JMS should write a short story entitled "The Life and Times of a Triluminary," where we learn the sordid details of these little buggers.

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"You do not make history. You can only hope to survive it."

 

[Alai]

There may be three triluminaries, but I don't believe there were three transformations. Because Delenn said that she changed to "restore the balance" between the races. If a third transformed, so would a forth.

Another point I thought of while reading this. In WWE, we find out that B4 goes 6 years into the future before going to the past. But in Babylon Squared, the Major said that they had gone back in time, and then reappeared(in 2258). So if they first went to the future, got everybody off, and then B4 went back in time, how did the Major know where it was going?

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[Shaal Mayan]

war without end is one of my favorites cause I get to see Sinclair one last time before he leaves ...

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[bakana]

One of the things we need to remember is that this is not really a TWO part Episode, it's a THREE parter. Part one was shown in Season One, of course.

JMS went to a LOT of effort to keep things consistent.

Of course, having someone in Wardrobe lose Delenn's dress during the interval was a bit of a problem, especially when they found out that particular fabric pattern was no longer being made.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR> how did the Major know where it was going?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

One of their early indicators taht Babylon 4 was in Trouble was that the station's TimeTrack system started giving them strange readings.

They were still running diagnostics on it when Sinclair & Garibaldi came aboard together and they found out For Certain that the station had Moved in Time.

One of the checks would have been to take Astronomic sightings on all the nearby planets.
You can read a Solar System like a clock if you know the orbital dynamics of all it's planets.
A very Accurate clock that doesn't repeat for Millions of years.
The astronomy programs would have been used to Confirm that the TimeTrack computer was correct.
Which is probably How the TimeTrack system works in the first place.
A computer clock that checks itself against predicted and actual planetary positions once or twice a day.


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The 3 most common elements in the Universe:
Hydrogen, Greed, Stupidity!

[This message has been edited by bakana (edited December 12, 2001).]

 

[Jade Jaguar]

G'Kar's Eye, what would be the 'sordid' details of the life of a triluminary? Maybe: I was emitting a lurid wavelength in the direction of a neutron star that held great attraction for me...

It's hard to picture the 'little buggers' doing anything sordid.

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You're speaking treason! Olivia De Havilland as Maid Marian
Fluently! Errol Flynn as Robin Hood
You're talking treason! Olivia De Havilland as Arabella Bishop
I trust I'm not obscure. Errol Flynn as Dr. Peter Blood

Pallindromes of the month: Snug was I, ere I saw guns.
Doom an evil deed, liven a mood.

 

[GKarsEye]

Jade, it's just within my nature to include words like sordid, erotic, nasty, violent etc. I guess I'm just a product of the MTV generation.

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"You do not make history. You can only hope to survive it."

 

[channe]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by bakana:
Of course, having someone in Wardrobe lose Delenn's dress during the interval was a bit of a problem, especially when they found out that particular fabric pattern was no longer being made. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

LOL - really? B5 Synchroninity Ahead:

I once heard this heated discussion between two Babylon 5 fans at a mall card show. They were actually discussing this matter. One was saying something like "What if time did change? Delenn isn't wearing that dress!"

I wanted to tell them something like "You know, they probably just couldn't find the darned thing, shrugged, and went on with the shot..."

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The writer's life is not meant to be a happy one. We all accept that going in. -JMS

 

[Mondo Londo]

Yes, Joe D. is right to mention that we don't know if the trluminaries can only be used for one transformation each. As for who the three transformees are, well, we see Delenn and Sinclair go through theirs on the show. As for the third,

<table bgcolor=black><tr><td bgcolor=black><font size=1 color=white>Spoiler:</font></td></tr><tr><td><font size=2 color=black>
Although we don't see it on the show, it seems to be Catherin Sakai.
</font></td></tr></table>



Though again, any of the triluminaries may have been used for other purposes, including transformations, in the past or future...


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"What's up, Drakh?"

Michael Garibaldi

 

[Mondo Londo]

BTW:

The best line in War Without End?

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR> Lucy and Ethel. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

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"What's up, Drakh?"

Michael Garibaldi

 

[Capt. Neville]

Since the first two triluminaries could possibly be used by Delenn and Sinclair, who are two of The Ones, maybe the third one was used by Sheridan. Would make for nice symmetry.

*Sheridan looks at enemy fleet*
*Looks down at triluminary in his hand*
*Looks back up*
*Looks back down*
*Shoots triluminary at enemy fleet, attached to a large nuclear bomb*
*Enemy fleet gets nuked*

See? He could find use for it, no problem
-mcn

 

[bakana]

We do see a triluminary used for other purposes.
Detecting Sinclair/Valen's descendents.
Delenn for instance.
One of them was also used during Sinclair's interrogation during the Battle of the Line.

It was seeing How the Triluminary reacted to Sinclair that caused the Grey council to decide that Sinclair was carrying Valen's Soul and call off the war.

Probably a fortuitious accident.
The staff carried by the leader of the Grey Council had a triluminary mounted on top of it.
He probably got right in Sinclair's face during the interrogation and the thing lit up like a flare.
Bet it almost scared him into a new incarnation.

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The 3 most common elements in the Universe:
Hydrogen, Greed, Stupidity!