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Were Ivanova and Winters lovers?

I don't think JMS would "back off" anything. He'd quit first, just look at Crusade and Jeremiah.

Frankly, I think you're confusing "I just wrote and produced 5 years of Babylon 5" JMS with "I wrote some episodes of Murder She Wrote and this could really make my career" JMS. I doubt he would have walked away from B5 if asked to make that hypothetical change. It was not integral to the story. On the other hand, might he not want to let on to his vast legion of fans that the hard-nosed JMS actually bucked to popular opinion and copped out?
Sure. He's only human.

I'm not saying any of this is true. I'm not even criticizing JMS. Just posing scenarios and wondering what everyone thought.
 
Also bear in mind that, at least according to her, Lyta could keep the secret of Kosh despite the best efforts of PsiCorps. Which implies that secrets can be kept from telepaths. So maybe Ivanova managed to hide it.
Lyta wasn't your average telepath, though -- she could hold a Vorlon in her head. :)
 
By the time The Gathering came out he had been calling Delenn a male for a long time.
Very true -- I remember that now...

Mira was to play Delenn as both a male and after the transformation to female, if I recall... but I think I also recall JMS saying one of the reasons he decided to make Delenn a female was because too many viewers would be creeped out by a guy (Sheridan) marrying and having a kid with someone who used to be a man. Quite frankly, I'd agree. :p

Aside from that (and probably for more important financial/productive reasons), he said the makeup was more of a challenge than it was worth, and the technology of the day didn't allow them to make a believable "male" voice out of Mira's audio track.
 
Mira was to play Delenn as both a male and after the transformation to female, if I recall... but I think I also recall JMS saying one of the reasons he decided to make Delenn a female was because too many viewers would be creeped out by a guy (Sheridan) marrying and having a kid with someone who used to be a man. Quite frankly, I'd agree. :p

Well, if we have that on record it at least enforces the fact that it was a part of the equation. In later years, though, he only really mentions the voiceover issue. Also, it would mean that JMS wasn't pushed by anoybody, but rather changed his mind about it on his own.
 
Possibly Talia did discover that Ivanova was a latent telepath. Talia certainly discovered that Lyta was in the brig.

Talia's debriefer may have decided that Psi Corps did not have any use for a latent adult telepath and that angering Earthforce would just make the mess worse. Not worth entering into the report sent to Bester.


Leta was touched by Vorlons, Talia was touched by Ironheart, her "gift". That was the ep where Talia described teeps making love. Talia was certainly more passionate than her public demeanor let on, and she was able to "read" Garibaldi on the elevator when she slapped him :D If Susan and Talia had "done it", then her "sleeper" would have known all that Susan did and Psi Corp/ Clark would NOT have waited to target B5. So, I think :eek: that if Andrea stayed on/replaces Leta, then the relationship thread could progress. Now, that does lead to other specious :) ideas. If Susan was in S5, it could have opened the door to ::: Susan/Leta!!! No Byron needed!!!! :devil:
 
From the Horses' mouth:

Did Lyta sense Ivanova's talent?
A non-telepath can learn certain tricks to make it harder to break through, albeit briefly, so the reaction was sufficiently ambiguous and the event sufficiently brief that it wouldn't raise too many concerns. Which is why Sheridan dived in when he did; if she'd continue to block much longer, just instinctively, it would've revealed her latent potential. It was his distracting Ivanova that in a sense helped Lyta break through.
RE: alternate lifestyles...I said when stuff happened, we wouldn't make a big deal out of it, it'd just be there...and I said we'd address it in our own way, in our own time. We've done a bit here, we'll do a bit more down the road. I won't give you or anyone a timetable; I'll do stuff as the integrity of the story permits, not sooner, not later. I will not allow this to become a political football. If you do nothing, folks yell at you for ignoring it; if you do a little, they yell for not doing more; if you do more, they yell for not doing it sooner. Screw it. I do what the story calls for, as the story calls for it.
Susan and Talia had been dancing around one another for months; that night, though, would've been the first time they got physically intimate.
I didn't show a kiss because, in my experience, it's easier on all around if one steps into the shallow end of the pool first, and walks into the deep end rather than diving in and splashing everybody in the process.
Wouldn't Talia have discovered Ivanova's secret if they were intimate?
Well, a telepath can also hold it back and avoid dipping any further into someone's mind, if not permitted or asked not to do so


To read all of it Lurkers Guide


Definitely some girl on girl action.
 
and she was able to "read" Garibaldi on the elevator when she slapped him If Susan and Talia had "done it", then her "sleeper" would have known all that Susan did

Talia "heard" Garibaldi's thoughts, not because he was telepathically broadcasting them, but because it was just ambient and she was near by and it got through her normal defenses to keep ambient thoughts out. If Talia and Ivanova were having sex, I doubt Ivanova's thoughts would have been on the Conspiracy of Light, and so there would be no ambient thoughts about it for Talia to pick up. To get that information, Talia would have had to push her way into Ivanova's mind, no different than anyone else.
 
Yes, and the sleeper personality would probably not have the availability to use psi while Talia was awake. It's even possible that the sleeper didn't have psi at all. So Talia would have respected Susan's wish not to be touched telepathically, if Talia was able to control herself. The sleeper wouldn't know anything about Susan's psi powers that way.
And Susan probably wouldn't leak thoughts aobut the Conspiracy of Light.
Now, when Talia was asleep is another story. ;)
 
Well, if we have that on record it at least enforces the fact that it was a part of the equation. In later years, though, he only really mentions the voiceover issue. Also, it would mean that JMS wasn't pushed by anoybody, but rather changed his mind about it on his own.
As I understood it, he was pretty set on Delenn being male until the metamorphosis... but yeah, he's more often used the voicetrack problems as the main reason for making the character female. The voice kept coming out too synthesized, he's often said.
 
Well, if we have that on record it at least enforces the fact that it was a part of the equation. In later years, though, he only really mentions the voiceover issue. Also, it would mean that JMS wasn't pushed by anoybody, but rather changed his mind about it on his own.
As I understood it, he was pretty set on Delenn being male until the metamorphosis... but yeah, he's more often used the voicetrack problems as the main reason for making the character female. The voice kept coming out too synthesized, he's often said.

Like I said about the Minbari assassin.
It clearly looked and sounded like a woman. They weren't fooling anybody.
 
Well, if we have that on record it at least enforces the fact that it was a part of the equation. In later years, though, he only really mentions the voiceover issue. Also, it would mean that JMS wasn't pushed by anoybody, but rather changed his mind about it on his own.
As I understood it, he was pretty set on Delenn being male until the metamorphosis... but yeah, he's more often used the voicetrack problems as the main reason for making the character female. The voice kept coming out too synthesized, he's often said.

Like I said about the Minbari assassin.
It clearly looked and sounded like a woman. They weren't fooling anybody.

Except he was played by a man, Greg Aronowitz
 

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