What Is The Main Thing That Lacks In Season 5?

[Truth_Seeker]

Do you have the feeling that for some reason Season 5 is not as good as the previous seasons?I don't know what the explanation might be but I usually rewatch the first four season much more often than Season 5.There could be many possible reasons for that-Ivanova's re-assignment, Marcus's death, the departure of the First Ones, or the deaths of the main villains of the show-Morden,Emperor Cartagia and President Clark.Draal also didn't appear in S5.

What is your opinion?

 

[vacantlook]

I think perhaps too much time was given to the telepath colony. If their presence had begun in season four and been resolved in season five, it might be better. As it is, it can feel a bit too top-heavy, for lack of a better word. I blame that hotel that threw out jms's notes he had for the beginning of season five.

 

[Truth_Seeker]

I blame that hotel that threw out jms's notes he had for the beginning of season five.

Well that's interesting.I didn't know that.What exactly happened to those notes, Vacantlook.

 

[Cell]

The second half of S5 is incredibly strong, however that is countered by the incredibly weak first half. The teep storyline is too heavy, boring, and plodding to be any good and it drags the season down with it.

 

[Jan]

The problem was that so many of the story arcs had been completed in season 4 that it took time to ramp up the momentum that we'd gotten used to in seasons three and four.

As for the lost notes, JMS used to keep his notes for each season on index cards with story beats and episode notes on them. At the famed (infamous) Blackpoole convention where they got word that Claudia wasn't going to be in the fifth season, the convention hotel also changed JMS's room without notifying him and accidentally threw away all of those cards that he'd taken with him.

One thing that I very much liked about the fifth season was the off-format episodes we got such as "Day of the Dead" and "The Corps is Mother, The Corps is Father".

Jan

 

[maneth]

Me too, Jan. Downes simply wasn't charismatic enough to carry the role of Byron, although he was good enough as a Minbari earlier in the show.

 

[Morden]

-"A View from the Gallery," "Learning Curve," and "Secrets of the Soul" were lame. Some episodes trying to highlight some of the smaller parts of the Babylon 5 universe worked brilliantly, however these three episodes were absolute filler. Having so many different 'uncommon narrator' episodes made it clear that Season 5 was not prepared as carefully as the previous seasons.
The best parts of "The Very Long Night of Londo Mollari" had already been seen before in "Dust to Dust."

-The telepath colony plot line ended poorly. Perhaps it was because the mass suicide felt like a cop out, or maybe because this whole, lame arc was a mere stepping stone leading to the potentially awesome Telepath War. All I know is, Byron doesn't work.

-There weren't any bad guys left in the universe. The Shadows and Vorlons were gone, Morden was dead, Clarke and his cronies were removed, and even the league worlds were acting nicely.

-In writing, it isn't fair to sacrifice Marcus if Ivanova isn't even going to be around. Have her guilt cause her to destroy herself, yes, but it cheats the audience to have her leave without a good-bye.

 

[Truth_Seeker]

The problem was that so many of the story arcs had been completed in season 4 that it took time to ramp up the momentum that we'd gotten used to in seasons three and four.
Jan

That the main problem for me too.There was almost nothing left to be told after the events in "Rising Star".Even the best S5 episodes like "Movements Of Fire And Shadow" can't be compared to masterpieces like "Interludes And Examinations" or "Z'Ha'Dum".The telepath arc could have been done in 2-3 episodes.The Drakh arc was good but Londo's fate was really cruel.We saw him changing and becoming a better person but it seems that his visions came true after all.

 

[Cell]

That the main problem for me too.There was almost nothing left to be told after the events in "Rising Star".Even the best S5 episodes like "Movements Of Fire And Shadow" can't be compared to masterpieces like "Interludes And Examinations" or "Z'Ha'Dum".The telepath arc could have been done in 2-3 episodes.The Drakh arc was good but Londo's fate was really cruel.We saw him changing and becoming a better person but it seems that his visions came true after all.

I would easily put Movements Of Fire And Shadow among the best B5 eps, and certainly ahead of Z'ha'dum. I'd put the last arc of season 5 up against any arc done in the entire show, if not for the teeps dragging season 5 down I think it could have been up there with season's 4 and 3, but instead it ends up a shade below season 2 and a bit above season 1.

 

[Alluveal]

I didn't dislike Byron so much as I loathed his creepy telepath buddies. They were all too "funky kool-aid" and hare krishna for my taste. And yes, too much time was spent on them, imho. I would have rather seen more of Londo/G'Kar or even Delenn and the Minbari rift back home instead of all that time spent on some dorky mute kid showing Lochley a flower in her head.

I think it was after the Shadow War that I felt kind of a depression with the show. I call it PSWD (post shadow war depression.) It just felt like all the magic was gone in a sense, like the magician had revealed the secrets of the trick in a sense. The Vorlons and the Shadows were just so big and so built up in my mind that when they all left to go beyond the rim, I felt somehow saddened. It's like G'Kar saying:

"They are a mystery and I am both terrified and reassured to know that there are still wonders in the Universe. That we have not yet explained everything. Whatever they are, Miss Sakai, they walk near Sigma 957 and they must walk there alone."

The mysteries seemed smaller now that the humans and other races had found a way to put an end to the conflict. I think that's why I enjoyed Thirdspace so much, it brought back some serious mystery and the possibility that there was so much more out there unknown and unvisited.

Don't get me wrong, I loved all the seasons, but season 5 just seemed to be winding down if anything. Regardless, it was a lovely end no matter.

 

[GaribaldisHair]

-In writing, it isn't fair to sacrifice Marcus if Ivanova isn't even going to be around. Have her guilt cause her to destroy herself, yes, but it cheats the audience to have her leave without a good-bye.

And I am pretty certain that JMS is on record as saying that he would not have killed off Marcus if he had known that Claudia was going to leave the show ... although I can't lay my hands on it at present.

 

[Truth_Seeker]

.
I think it was after the Shadow War that I felt kind of a depression with the show. I call it PSWD (post shadow war depression.) It just felt like all the magic was gone in a sense, like the magician had revealed the secrets of the trick in a sense. The Vorlons and the Shadows were just so big and so built up in my mind that when they all left to go beyond the rim, I felt somehow saddened. It's like G'Kar saying:

Alluveal, you've described exactly how I felt from "Into The Fire" on.

 

[Jan]

And I am pretty certain that JMS is on record as saying that he would not have killed off Marcus if he had known that Claudia was going to leave the show ... although I can't lay my hands on it at present.

It's in one of his commentaries on the Season Four DVDs.

Jan

 

[Cell]

And I am pretty certain that JMS is on record as saying that he would not have killed off Marcus if he had known that Claudia was going to leave the show ... although I can't lay my hands on it at present.

The sad thing is that Marcus' death ending up being a bit of a nothing event. Storyline wise it had one consequence, Ivanova leaving the station. But, outside of a few mentions from Lennier we don't hear much about Marcus and his death doesn't have any lasting consequences (and I don't consider Lennier joining the Rangers to be a consequence since that was all a cover for his need to be more manly for Delenn.) There isn't even a remembrance really, it's just "Marcus is dead, poof, let's move on and forget he was ever on the show." It's kind of a sorry legacy for a character that started off so bland and forced to me and grew into a wonderful, wonderful character.

 

[Morden]

And I am pretty certain that JMS is on record as saying that he would not have killed off Marcus if he had known that Claudia was going to leave the show ... although I can't lay my hands on it at present.

Yes, I know. It's the unfairness of TV.

Can't say I like the idea of Marcus outliving Ivanova just so he watch her croak, either.

 

[Ranger1]

marcus wasn't really dead though, i point you to "time, space, and the incurable romantic" i love that story.

 

[Jade Jaguar]

The problem was that so many of the story arcs had been completed in season 4 that it took time to ramp up the momentum that we'd gotten used to in seasons three and four.

This, the fact that Season 5 is rather anti-climatic, following The Shadow War, and the Earth civil war. Add to that, I believe that JMS was a bit burnt out, after his amazing efforts, writing almost all the scripts preceding.

I have to say that I enjoyed Season 5 more, on the second viewing, since my expectations were not as high, and with the passage of time, it didn't seem so anti-climatic.

 

[Bester]

the fact that Season 5 is rather anti-climatic

That's exactly the problem I have with S5. For a final season, it sure does have a lot of beginnings....

Lyta getting to grips with her powers and the start of her travels with G'Kar, the promises that Lyta and Garibaldi give to each other, the aggressive "Remember Byron" telepath movement, the secret Psi Corps ships in hyperspace, Lennier's promise to return so he can atone for his actions, etc - all these story developments gave the impression that more was to come (mainly the Telepath War).

I feel that S4 gave a more satisfying sense of completion than S5, whilst still leaving the door open for future follow-ups.

 

[Jade Jaguar]

I really would have liked to see the adventures of Lyta and G'Kar, but that can never be. Yeah, S5 did seem to have lots of beginnings.

 

[Cell]

That's exactly the problem I have with S5. For a final season, it sure does have a lot of beginnings....

Lyta getting to grips with her powers and the start of her travels with G'Kar, the promises that Lyta and Garibaldi give to each other, the aggressive "Remember Byron" telepath movement, the secret Psi Corps ships in hyperspace, Lennier's promise to return so he can atone for his actions, etc - all these story developments gave the impression that more was to come (mainly the Telepath War).

I feel that S4 gave a more satisfying sense of completion than S5, whilst still leaving the door open for future follow-ups.

I don't think any of this would have been a problem had they been followed up on. I personally liked the setting up of stories to come, it showed that this was one giant universe and not just the story of what was happening on B5. It sucks that none of those stories were never told though.