What kind of show will "Rangers" be?

[Chris Springob]

What kind of show will \"Rangers\" be?

There are very few hard facts regarding what kind of show LOTR is going to be, but I was wondering if anyone out there had any interesting speculation.

Is this going to be a starship-based series? The "Show Overview" section of this website suggests that maybe it will be, with the Liandra being that starship. But it's also possible that something will happen in the telemovie that leads to David & crew being assigned to the Valen. Or maybe it won't be a starship based series at all.

Will the LOTR cast be a "special" crew in some way (i.e., the crew of the Rangers' flagship, assigned to a specific mission like the Excalibur was, etc.)? Or will it just be one of 100 crews of Rangers all doing the same thing?

The press release said that the Rangers in LOTR would "attempt to restore order to hundreds of civilizations devastated by the Shadow War." What exactly does "attempt to restore order" mean? Does this mean acting to stop raiders as we saw them do in B5? Will it be mostly resolving disputes between different races (perhaps instigated by the bad blood from wars they fought against each other because of the prodding of the Shadows), or dealing with internal problems on a given world? Will "restoring order" mean helping races to rebuild technologically, a la "Deconstruction of Falling Stars"? Will most of the Rangers' missions be covert, as in the early seasons of B5?

Doesn't "restoring order" sound like the sort of thing that wouldn't always be accomplished by one crew in one episode? Does that mean that we'll see the LOTR characters stay at one planet for several episodes, and then move on to the next world?

What will the plot of a typical episode be like?


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[vakie]

Re: What kind of show will \"Rangers\" be?

Knowing jms, the show would probably start off fairly conventionaly, doing stories similar to what the Rangers did in season 5 of B5, as in stopping the raider attacks in 'The Paragon of Animals', showcasing more of Ranger training and operations as seen in 'Learning Curve', 'Meditations on the Abyss' and 'Darkness Ascending', dealing with left over shadow tech like the Franklin and Lyta mission to the Drazi homeworld in 'Movements of Fire and Shadow', etc. and we'd also probably get to see more of the homeworlds of various races.

Also, like jms said, it would show more of the Minbari homeworld, their philosophies, their history, technology... probably more info on Valen's life and so on.

After the introductory 1st season, the story would probably start getting more weird and subversive and knock over a few tables, like B5 did, and Crusade would have (and perhaps will).

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vakie

 

[hypatia]

Re: What kind of show will \"Rangers\" be?

I have no idea what it will be like, but I find it promising that the captain and the ship will both be starting off with less than lilly-white backgrounds. I find that very promising. It should be quite fun.

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[Chris Springob]

Re: What kind of show will \"Rangers\" be?

I thought I'd post my own predictions on this subject:

vakie--I agree with you about how, after the first season, all bets are off. The show could turn into anything. My guess is that, in the first season anyway, the show will not focus on any of the longer term problems that deal with rebuilding after the war. We'll see the Ranger crew being called on for quickie problems--sort of like an interstellar 911. I also think that there will be a mix between problems that are internal to a single world, and problems that deal with relations between different worlds. We might get to see some of the political aspects of the B5 universe that were front and center in the original show, but more in the background in Crusade.

I'm guessing that this crew will be one of hundreds of Ranger crews that do the same thing, but that later in the series, we'll find out that there's something special about them--perhaps some important mission that they're sent on, like the Excalibur's mission of finding the cure to the Drakh plague.

I would guess that most of the stories would deal with worlds that are already part of the ISA, which is why I'm a bit baffled by the news that one of the crew will be "a political and first contact guy". Why would you need a first contact guy if you're dealing with the internal problems of the ISA? Maybe the Shadow War involved races that either Earth or Minbar had never encountered before?


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[Joseph DeMartino]

Re: What kind of show will \"Rangers\" be?

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>"a political and first contact guy". <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You need a political/diplomatic guy (I don't think there is anything in the JMS post that suggests "political officer" as someone mentioned above) for dealing with people you know, and a first contact guy for dealing with people you don't.

It's a big universe. We've already seen that B5 itself was a kind of a novelty, that there simply wasn't a lot of contact between the various races and worlds. (Except, of course, when they were invading and occupying one another.

) We know from season five that some of the colony worlds claimed by the likes of the Drazi had indigenous, non-spacefaring populations. It may be that under the IA charter such peoples will have the chance for self-determination, and direct negotiation with them, rather than through the occupying power, would constitute a "first contact" situation. There may also be other "minor" races on the borders of the League worlds who were not represented on B5 and with whom the IA has had no prior dealings.

Besides, even if the Humans or the Minbari have had extensive contact with some races, the IA is a relatively new entity, so from a diplomatic standpoint a lot of their meetings will be "first contacts."

And finally, its a big universe. You never know who or what you're going to encounter travelling from world to world, especially in hyperspace. Good idea to have someone trained in first contact protocol. whether you use him or not. Same reason that small town police forces pay to send people to hostage-negotiation training. You pray to God the situation never arises, but if it does you want to be able to deal with it - and without waiting for a specialist from another jurisdiction to come and bail you out. (Which aboard a starship, in a First Contact situation, probably isn't an option anyway.

)

Regards,

Joe

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Joseph DeMartino
Sigh Corps
Pat Tallman Division
joseph-demartino@att.net

 

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Re: What kind of show will \"Rangers\" be?

Sorry about the "Political Officer" comment. It's just that I read that description of the character AFTER watching the B5 episode with that Mussante woman, who was supposed to be B5's new Political Officer. (I forgot the episode title, but it's the one where she tries to seduce Sheridan, and Ivanova has a friendly chat with the Walkers of Sigma 957)

Whatever the case, it does make sense that they have someone on board who's specialty is first contact situations. Kind of like an ambassador. Though I can't imagine them using this guy much. Unless they have a first contact situation in every episode. I figure that the guys role will evolve to include other things as time goes by. For instance, Dr. Franklins job on B5 was the chief medical officer, but his responsibilities grew to include being the go-between between Sheridan and the Mars Resistance. I expect the same for Tafeek. His responsibilites will probably grow from simply handling first contact situations.

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[Jomar]

Re: What kind of show will \"Rangers\" be?

In Crusade there were only 13 episodes but the Excalibur crew managed to contact several new worlds in that short period so presumably the Rangers will also come across strange new worlds from time to time. Personally I would assume that the early episodes will deal with peoples that we already know. However, aren't we getting ahead of ourselves here?

So far, we only know for sure that there will be a 2-hour movie. The rest is wishing/hoping/praying

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[Joseph DeMartino]

Re: What kind of show will \"Rangers\" be?

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Though I can't imagine them using this guy much. Unless they have a first contact situation in every episode. I figure that the guys role will evolve to include other things as time goes by.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually the original JMS post indicates that the character already does have other responsibilities - that's why he is refferred to as a "political/first contact" guy - with political coming first. Obviously his primary job will be to keep the crew on the good side of the League worlds and other known alien species, a kind of minor diplomatic post (and he'll doubtless act as liason with whatever actual diplomats the IA has in place.)

It was not an uncommon thing for naval officers to act in a diplomatic capacity in the 18th and 19th centuries, when travel between countries was long and arduous, and communications slow. The galaxy is a big enough place that even with tachyon relays and jumpgates people and information may take days or weeks to travel between worlds, and a Ranger ship that goes from place to place may have more recent news than folks on the ground at a given stop. This is an element of both real history and the Horatio Hornblower novels that Gene Rodennberry very conciously incorporated into the original Star Trek.

Sheridan also acted as a diplomat as commander of the Agamemnon. in working with the League worlds, and probably has his exec, as a captain-in-training, do the same. I wouldn't be at all surprised to hear that EarthForce officers received some diplomatic training, and that capital ships, at least, had specialists in this area. It would be natural for Sheridan to incorpate this idea in the Alliance/Rangers military structure.

Regards,

Joe

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Joseph DeMartino
Sigh Corps
Pat Tallman Division
joseph-demartino@att.net

 

[PMvanova]

Re: What kind of show will \"Rangers\" be?

It is really eerie for me about the new movie. I've been writing a story and had an idea about a Ranger anthology book for about a year and a half now.
Each story focused on one Ranger that may have had just a cameo in one of the episodes and a few stories that were separate from the B5 timeline.
I was hoping it would be that kind of show, but whatever it turns out, we know it will be quality no matter what the venue.
The Alliance is brand new at the point in the story, there are all kinds of worlds that had been dealing with one or more of the League worlds and now they need to be contacted again to see if they want to join up. And don't forget, the Drakh are lurking out there, readying their forces, working behind the scenes on Centauri Prime and possibly on other worlds.
Nuf said...
I'd post my stories over at Fanfic but they are prejudiced against Macs.
(btw..hey Joe D..did'nt know you posted over here too..cheese for brains here)

PM

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PM
--The past tempts us, the present confuses us, and the future frightens us. And our lives slip away, moment by moment, lost in that vast terrible inbetween.
---Centauri Emperor

 

[Joseph DeMartino]

Re: What kind of show will \"Rangers\" be?

What kind of show will "Rangers" be?

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say, "A one hour science fiction action/adventure series with dramatic elements."

Joe

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Joseph DeMartino
Sigh Corps
Pat Tallman Division
joseph-demartino@att.net

 

[Chris Springob]

Re: What kind of show will \"Rangers\" be?

Jomar--The Excalibur's mission was to search new worlds for the cure to the plague. So part of their mission involves putting themselves in potential first contact situations. On Rangers, this won't necessarily be the case. I was thinking that they'd be dealing more with races that are already part of the ISA. But others are right when they point out that first contact situations could happen anyway. You could still have an episode like "Visitors From Down the Street". And yes, this topic is "just" speculation, but "just" speculation is what I live for. But you probably already figured that out from my posts.

PMvanova--I recognize you from the Sci Fi board(where I lurk, but don't post). So that's how it works, huh? The Sci Fi board goes down for maintenance, and everyone comes over here.

This Rangers forum is closing in on 1000 posts. I'd better go help the Crusade forum catch up...


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[In Valen's Shadow]

Re: What kind of show will \"Rangers\" be?

We know that "Legend" starts in 2265, which puts it three years after "Babylon 5" and two years before "Crusade." We know that it focuses on the Rangers, and their attempts to enforce the laws of the ISA.

Now, here's what I think.

I think that "Legend" will run for a couple of years (cancellation notwithstanding), letting jms build a feel for the characters, show the kinds of situations they get themselves into, how they get out of them, yada yada yada. They might even run a "mini-arc" or two, just to keep us interested in the show.

Then, 2267 rolls around. And we all know what happens then, don't we?

Let's also say that, once the Drakh Plague hits Earth, we see the Liandra and her crew investigating dead worlds and passing that information on to the Excalibur. They'd also have to deal with the rise in Raider activity, naturally.

And then, in late 2267 or early 2268, jms finds a way to have the crews of both the Liandra and Excalibur meet up to face some big Drakh threat ...

... and he turns around and COMBINES BOTH CREWS??

What if all this is just his way of redoing "Crusade" the way he ORIGINALLY INTENDED TO DO IT, but this time, without the kind of interference he got from TNT? Go back and read the original notices for "Crusade," back before they even aired the episodes. Don't some of these characters and situations sound like what jms had originally envisioned for "Crusade," before TNT started mucking around with it?

Anyway, that's just my theory. I could be wrong about this, either a little or a lot. It wouldn't be the first time; besides, I never saw the whole "Sinclair becomes Valen" thing coming until the end of "War Without End, Part 2" ...

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[Joseph DeMartino]

Re: What kind of show will \"Rangers\" be?

Crusade was never about the plague, and what it was about depended on those characters - an Earthforce crew with some additions - going up against EarthGov.

The Rangers will have, and should have, their own story.

It would make far more sense, economically and in every other way, for Sci-Fi to put Crusade back in production once Rangers gets to year two. If the series is doind well enough in the ratings to get renewed, Sci-Fi stands to gain by having a second B5 universe show. Certainly Warner Bros. and JMS do. It means work for twice as many actors and technicians and one less prime time slot for Sci-Fi to fill with a new, untested show. If Rangers flops, it is a moot point anyway. But I don't see any sense at all in turning Rangers into Crusade after a year or two, which is effectively what you're suggesting without the title change. The idea has come up before and I've never thought it made any sense in TV terms.

They'd have to cut at least half the cast from both shows, since no series could sustain that number of regulars, either dramatically or in its budget. (Not to mention that the actors wouldn't stand for it. Not enough air time for anybody, there'd be mass resignations even if anyone were to try such a thing.) And there's the little matter of the "extra" ship - which one do you lose? (Again, it is a matter of staying focused in a continuing series and air time. You can't alternate between ships every week and you can't set half of each episode on each when you've only got 42 mintues or so in which to tell your story.)

JMS said quite recently that he would be surprised if Sci-Fi didn't revisit the whole Crusade issue when and if Rangers becomes a successful series. (Meaning late 2002 or early 2003 at the earliest.)

Actually we don't know that Rangers is set in 2265. The TV movie will take place in 2265, just as The Gathering took place in 2257. Odds are that the movie will take place in the later part of 2265, since we know it follows the Telepath War, which ends in that year. JMS will likely want to leave a "buffer" of at least a few months before the end of the war and To Live and Die in Starlight.

That means Rangers season 1, which would start shooting early in 2002, would be set in 2266. IF JMS follows the "one season equals one year" pattern he established on B5 and if Rangers is another five-year arc show (NEITHER of which has been established), season 2 would be in 2267, the same year as Crusade S1.

So, you have Rangers S1 shooting in the spring of 2002 to air later in the year (according to JMS's own timeline.) Rangers S2 will be set in 2267 and air in 2003. By coincidence, the spring of 2003 is the earliest date that Crusade could go back into production, to air in the fall of 2003 - along with Rangers S2.

Both shows would be set in 2267, there would be plenty of room for cross-overs, and Sci-Fi gets an extra year of original B5 universe programming. (The dates work whether JMS and Sci-Fi decide to finish the 22 episode first season of Crusade by replacing "War Zone" and shooting 10 new episodes, let the 13 stand as S1 and just let S2 cover the end of 2267 and 2268, or they scrap the original 13 and just start the whole show over with a new cast - which is definitely an option.)

I think JMS planned it this way to give himself another shot at telling the rest of the Crusade story on a show called Crusade, rather than shoe-horning it into a new series that he expressly designed to explore a whole different part of the B5 universe, and to have much closer ties to Minbar than to Earth.

But that's just my opinion, I could be wrong.

Regards,

Joe

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Joseph DeMartino
Sigh Corps
Pat Tallman Division
joseph-demartino@att.net

 

[Ninja_Squirrel]

Re: What kind of show will \"Rangers\" be?

Even in the 13 episodes of Crusade we saw Lochley about 2 or 3 times and Babylon 5 one or two times. After the 1st or 2nd season of Rangers, we may see the Excalibur. And if Crusade is resurrected, between the two of them, we're bound to see Babylon 5 again too.

In a way, I think this new show will be a way of bringing all 3 shows together, making the B5 universe an even deeper, richer place.

That's why I wouldn't be surprised if we see a little bit of everything in Rangers. We'll probably see starships, Babylon 5, homeworlds of major races, dead worlds, etc. Even Crusade wasn't just a starship show. They explored new worlds and new races the same way--if not better--than Star Trek has always meant to do. Legends will probably be even more flexible.

I'm rambling. That's what I get for trying to type a B5 post while watching a tape of the West Wing and Buffy season finales. I'll shut up now.

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[Chris Springob]

Re: What kind of show will \"Rangers\" be?

Joe—I agree that combining the two crews is pretty impractical. However, there are some reasons why I think that it’s plausible that the storylines of Crusade and Rangers might turn out to be linked—maybe even so closely linked that Rangers could be regarded as the flip side of Crusade, regardless of whether Crusade ever makes it back on the air. The Babylon 5 story was about a lot of different things. The Crusade story apparently was going to be about a lot of different things, including the Drakh plague and the black projects of Earthgov. Rangers might deal with both of these issues in some way, and it could happen with or without Crusade coming back as a weekly series. Consider:

1) We saw in Crusade that the Rangers were gathering information on possible target worlds for the Excalibur to investigate. So some of the Ranger fleet will be involved in investigating worlds that might hold a cure to the plague during Rangers seasons 2-3. So there’s a potential point for the two shows to become intertwined.
2) As I said in another thread, it’s reasonable to assume that the Drakh plague, and the prospect of all life on Earth being wiped out, would have serious emotional consequences for the human characters on Rangers, and it would seriously affect the political standing of Earth in the Alliance. It would be a bit of a cheat for this to never be mentioned at all on Rangers, and it might even make sense to show some of the resolution of the plague story on Rangers. Similarly, if the black projects of Earthgov that Gideon uncovered in “End of the Line” were to come out, the political implications for Earth’s standing in the Alliance would be substantial, and a show that features a Ranger ship with humans and other races aiding Alliance worlds would be a logical place to show some of those implications.
3) Admittedly this reason is pretty weak, but I’ll mention it anyway. JMS said years ago that he had a side story to B5 that could be turned into a weekly series. Now he might have come up with a second one in the intervening years, or he might have decided to show the same story from a different perspective.
4) If Crusade were to come back, then you could have two weekly TV series with loose story arcs that are related to one another. That’s the sort of thing that’s never been done before, and JMS has said repeatedly that he wants to get involved in the sorts of projects that have never been done before.

Now, if the Rangers and Crusade stories are closely related, then how would it work? Well, like I said before, the Rangers crew could be involved in tracking down leads on worlds that the Excalibur should investigate further. I’ve also got another idea, but it involves something that JMS said in an interview last year about the direction that Crusade would have taken in its second season and beyond. Since Crusade might return one day, this would be considered a rather significant spoiler, so I’ll add some spoiler space:


S

P

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S

P

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E

Still here? OK. JMS said that the Excalibur would eventually go rogue like Babylon 5 did. So there’s also the idea that I that the Rangers crew would be involved in tracking down the Excalibur and in a sense becoming the bad guys on Crusade. Having the good guys on one show be the bad guys on another show is such a mind-bending idea that it’s the sort of thing JMS might do.

All of this could potentially be done in such a way that you don’t need to watch one show in order to understand the other. It could be worked in such a way that you watch one of the two shows and you the story looks like one thing. But you watch the other show and looks like something else. Or you watch both shows and it looks different still. JMS is, after all, known for stories in which you might already know how a piece of the story turns out, but it’s the context that really matters.

Or, if Rangers gets to its third season and it looks like SciFi isn’t interested in resurrecting Crusade, then JMS could decide that Crusade is unlikely to ever come back as a weekly series, then JMS could decide to take part of the Crusade arc, and move it into Rangers. After all, JMS almost did the same thing once already. When the fifth season of B5 looked doubtful, JMS said that the spin-off series, Crusade still might happen, and that he could do some of the things intended for B5 season 5 in Crusade if necessary. In this scenario, you could bring back some of the Crusade actors for guest shots on Rangers to pass the baton in a sense.

Actually, one possible sticking point about that last part is that Rangers will be shot in Vancouver, and I’m not sure how expensive or difficult schedule-wise it is to fly LA-based actors out to Vancouver for more than one or two guest shots a year. Then again, I guess The X-Files had quite a few Hollywood actors make guest appearances when it was filmed in Vancouver.

One last thing. I’m going out of town for Memorial Day weekend, so I’ll have to bow out of this thread until next week.


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[Delbert]

Re: What kind of show will \"Rangers\" be?

Chris Springob said:
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>4) If Crusade were to come back, then you could have two weekly TV series with loose story arcs that are related to one another. That’s the sort of thing that’s never been done before, and JMS has said repeatedly that he wants to get involved in the sorts of projects that have never been done before.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, kinda ... Buffy and Angel had crossovers which tied the shows together, although this is looking to be a less frequent occurrance with the split between networks. A couple of storylines even started in one show and concluded in the other. But, at the same time, it has not yet been a case of sharing extended arcs, so you're basically correct, as far as I know! The question would be whether Sci-Fi would be willing to take the gamble of having two closely-tied series... But I do like the idea!

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[bakana]

Re: What kind of show will \"Rangers\" be?

The reason the Rangers would need political officers is contained in Sheridan's first announcement about what the Rangers role would be in the Alliance: NOT a police force. They will Only go where they are Invited.

So, if they are invited, the ship needs someone to deal with the Politicians who invite them in. Particularly since politicians are fundamentally incapable of telling the truth. They will forever be giving the Rangers only Half the story and trying to sucker the crew into solving the problems _Their_ way. The political officer's job would be to deal with them and figure out where the nuggets of truth are buried in the lies being told. Then, after they have found the Right solution, the political officer has to find a way to politely ram it down their throats. Or their successors throats if it turns out the first bunch of politicians was the guilty parties.

As far as the majority of the Rangers would be concerned, the Drakh plague would be someone Else's problem. The relationships between the Rest of the Alliance worlds are just as important as saving Earth. It would be somewhat of a waste to save Earth so that they could then join in a nice little war. Someone's got to keep an eye on the store. Tips on possible cures would be passed on to Excaliber, but that would be a sort of secondary mission for all but a few Rangers.

First Contact? Well, we've already had one world petition for Ranger protection. Why should we assume that's the Only world being plundered?

Oh, all the way back to Season 1 of B5, there was mention of the fact that senior officers in Earthforce are trained in First Contact Protocol. That's the excuse Sinclair & Ivanova used to go down to the planet below when they discovered the Great Machine. They were the only ones trained. Besides, it was fun.

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Yes, I like cats too.
Shall we exchange Recipes?

 

[drakh]

Re: What kind of show will \"Rangers\" be?

Senior officers were requried because they're less likely to screw it up. After the Minbari War, Earth Force has been kinda loopy about that sort of thing. They'd rather lose a few officers than the eniter human race.

 

[Jomar]

Re: What kind of show will \"Rangers\" be?

There are some interesting ideas posted here. I'm inclined to agree there might be a possible crossover between the Crusade story and the B5:LR story in the second or third year. I think there was one episode where a ranger appeared on the Excalibur to provide some information.

I see some difficulties having two B5 series running at the same time though it is possible, (DS9 and Voyager) but it would put a terrible strain on JMS. If it happened and SCIFI was funding both series then there is no reason why both series couldn't be made in Vancouver.

A lot of the investment is recovered when the show goes into syndication and it might be difficult to always sell both series at once which would cause difficulties for the viewers if the stories were tied together too much.

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[drakh]

Re: What kind of show will \"Rangers\" be?

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jomar:
If it happened and SCIFI was funding both series then there is no reason why both series couldn't be made in Vancouver.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Crusde would have to go through major recaststing for that to happen, since I doubt you'd get them all to move to Canada.