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What were the "worst" B-5 Episodes?
- Thread starter Dayton3
- Start date
Chilli
High Treason Prevention Officer
Re: What were the \"worst\" B-5 Episodes?
Possible ...
... which brings me back to one B5 thing that truely did bug me
.. Lorien.
He's the oldest of the old, the most ancient of the ancient ...? .. yeah, right.
Him I found .. too un-alien really, considering what he was supposed to be.
Possible ...
... which brings me back to one B5 thing that truely did bug me
.. Lorien.He's the oldest of the old, the most ancient of the ancient ...? .. yeah, right.
Him I found .. too un-alien really, considering what he was supposed to be.
Joseph DeMartino
Moderator
Re: What were the \"worst\" B-5 Episodes?
But you saw mostly the form he used in communicating with Sheridan. Even when he was in something more like his "true" form (in Sheridan's dream) he was still working to communicate with Sheridan on a "human" level - a level Sheridan (and we) could accept and relate to.
Again, that is the problem with using such beings as dramatic characters. We quite literally could not imagine what a creature like Lorien would be like. We have no frame of reference for such a thing, our minds may not be developed enough to take it all. We'd be like the blind men and the elephant, each grasping the part of the truth that was presented to us. So the only our heroes can interact with Lorien is for Lorien to look and act as Human as possible. And therefore we see him as "un-alien".
Regards,
Joe
But you saw mostly the form he used in communicating with Sheridan. Even when he was in something more like his "true" form (in Sheridan's dream) he was still working to communicate with Sheridan on a "human" level - a level Sheridan (and we) could accept and relate to.
Again, that is the problem with using such beings as dramatic characters. We quite literally could not imagine what a creature like Lorien would be like. We have no frame of reference for such a thing, our minds may not be developed enough to take it all. We'd be like the blind men and the elephant, each grasping the part of the truth that was presented to us. So the only our heroes can interact with Lorien is for Lorien to look and act as Human as possible. And therefore we see him as "un-alien".
Regards,
Joe
MMarin
Member
Re: What were the \"worst\" B-5 Episodes?
In my opinion Lorien is warm and compassionate character with just a hint of weirdness. He is an obvious contrast to the other First Ones who are arrogant and full of pride. He's seen the birth of the Shadows, the Vorlons and countless of other races and also faced the world where "his children" are fighting this destructive war.
In The Hour of the Wolf and Whatever Happened to Mr. Garibaldi? we all saw the enigmatic side of Lorien. In The Summoning the news are coming in that the Vorlons have started to destroy whole planets, there is just that one small moment where we can see how much he cares for all the species in the galaxy. That includes the Vorlons, the Shadows and the poor people who died on the planet. He is like the grandfather who knows everything from the point of view of the little kids and he can sometimes be harsh towards them, but without loosing the fact that he actually cares for them all.
That's my interpretation of the character we know as Lorien.
In my opinion Lorien is warm and compassionate character with just a hint of weirdness. He is an obvious contrast to the other First Ones who are arrogant and full of pride. He's seen the birth of the Shadows, the Vorlons and countless of other races and also faced the world where "his children" are fighting this destructive war.
In The Hour of the Wolf and Whatever Happened to Mr. Garibaldi? we all saw the enigmatic side of Lorien. In The Summoning the news are coming in that the Vorlons have started to destroy whole planets, there is just that one small moment where we can see how much he cares for all the species in the galaxy. That includes the Vorlons, the Shadows and the poor people who died on the planet. He is like the grandfather who knows everything from the point of view of the little kids and he can sometimes be harsh towards them, but without loosing the fact that he actually cares for them all.
That's my interpretation of the character we know as Lorien.
Joseph DeMartino
Moderator
Re: What were the \"worst\" B-5 Episodes?
Needless to say, he's always been my role model.
Needless to say, he's always been my role model.
AnlaShokGrey
Regular
Re: What were the \"worst\" B-5 Episodes?
Of course, it's not the size of the fingers...
Of course, it's not the size of the fingers...
Mindwalker
Regular
Re: What were the \"worst\" B-5 Episodes?
you had yourself as a roommate?!
you had yourself as a roommate?!
Sindatur
Regular
Re: What were the \"worst\" B-5 Episodes?
Ya know, it really is a pity that Quality of Mercy didn't come before Eyes. I started watching again last week, and watched Legacies and Voice in the Wilderness last night. The end of S1 would've been so much better without Quality of Mercy breaking the cycle in it's position after B-Squared.
Ya know, it really is a pity that Quality of Mercy didn't come before Eyes. I started watching again last week, and watched Legacies and Voice in the Wilderness last night. The end of S1 would've been so much better without Quality of Mercy breaking the cycle in it's position after B-Squared.
Joseph DeMartino
Moderator
Re: What were the \"worst\" B-5 Episodes?
Garibaldi didn't. And, again, Lorien was at pains to present hmself in a way that allowed them to get him. He couldn't walk around being all cryptic and mysterious like Kosh. He had a very limited amount of time in which to persuade Sheridan, and through him the others, to do what was necessary to end the cycle of wars. A character did was was necessary to communicate as clearly as possible to lifeforms way below his rung on the evolutionary ladder. How does this "not make sense"? What wouldn't have made sense would have been floating around in the form of a glowing amoeba and spouting impenatrable hai-kus. It wouldn't have made any sense for the character, and it wouldn't have made any sense for the writer who was bringing a major part of his story to a climax and - as always happens in such situaitons - greatly accelearting the pace. Stopping the plot dead to satisfy fans' need for a "sense of wonder" moment would have been bad storytelling.
Regards,
Joe
Garibaldi didn't.
And, again, Lorien was at pains to present hmself in a way that allowed them to get him. He couldn't walk around being all cryptic and mysterious like Kosh. He had a very limited amount of time in which to persuade Sheridan, and through him the others, to do what was necessary to end the cycle of wars. A character did was was necessary to communicate as clearly as possible to lifeforms way below his rung on the evolutionary ladder. How does this "not make sense"? What wouldn't have made sense would have been floating around in the form of a glowing amoeba and spouting impenatrable hai-kus. It wouldn't have made any sense for the character, and it wouldn't have made any sense for the writer who was bringing a major part of his story to a climax and - as always happens in such situaitons - greatly accelearting the pace. Stopping the plot dead to satisfy fans' need for a "sense of wonder" moment would have been bad storytelling. Regards,
Joe
Re: What were the \"worst\" B-5 Episodes?
For sheer unadulterated badness, I always think the first couple of minutes of Legend of the Rangers are hard to beat.. It's that perfect storm moment when everything - the writing, the acting, the effects, and even, dare I say it, Christopher Franke's music, just go horribly wrong all at once.. Luckily it perks up and develops into something halfway enjoyable after the opening credits (which are pompous in the extreme), but there are still way too many cringeworthy moments for my liking (kiss kiss love love?).. Granted it had been a couple of years..
I'm so glad B5 is not finished and that JMS has full creative control.. It always bothered me that such a fantastic story ended with what felt like a protracted anticlimax, then a whirlwind of disappointments and cancellations and mitigating factors which left a bitter aftertaste..
For sheer unadulterated badness, I always think the first couple of minutes of Legend of the Rangers are hard to beat.. It's that perfect storm moment when everything - the writing, the acting, the effects, and even, dare I say it, Christopher Franke's music, just go horribly wrong all at once.. Luckily it perks up and develops into something halfway enjoyable after the opening credits (which are pompous in the extreme), but there are still way too many cringeworthy moments for my liking (kiss kiss love love?).. Granted it had been a couple of years..
I'm so glad B5 is not finished and that JMS has full creative control.. It always bothered me that such a fantastic story ended with what felt like a protracted anticlimax, then a whirlwind of disappointments and cancellations and mitigating factors which left a bitter aftertaste..
KoshN
Super Moderator
Re: What were the \"worst\" B-5 Episodes?
I agree with JoeD, here, 100%.
Garibaldi didn't.
Regards,
Joe
I agree with JoeD, here, 100%.
KalenEfran
Member
Re: What were the \"worst\" B-5 Episodes?
Well, the climax was Endgame and Rising Star, really. Season 5 was always supposed to be a "what now" epilogue. Had those two episodes (and Between the Darkness and the Light) started off Season 5 like they were originally planned to be, it probably would have come off better...
Well, the climax was Endgame and Rising Star, really. Season 5 was always supposed to be a "what now" epilogue. Had those two episodes (and Between the Darkness and the Light) started off Season 5 like they were originally planned to be, it probably would have come off better...
