Why did The Hand want (spoilers)?

[Jade Jaguar]

Why did The Hand want the Liandra and its crew left alive, at least for now? The Hand's puppets clearly state this, and of course they could be lying. It's a subjective call, but I think they meant it. But why? I can think of a few possibilities. They could have a traitor in the crew. The Liandra's mysterious loss of its previous crew could have been part of planting surveilance equipment on the Liandra, allowing some monitoring of Ranger activities and communications. Or they could want them to take back to the Rangers the minimal knowledge of them that Minister Kafta divulged. What do you think?

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You're speaking treason! Olivia De Havilland as Maid Marian
Fluently! Errol Flynn as Robin Hood
You're talking treason! Olivia De Havilland as Arabella Bishop
I trust I'm not obscure. Errol Flynn as Dr. Peter Blood

Pallindromes of the month: Snug was I, ere I saw guns.
Doom an evil deed, liven a mood.

 

[Joseph DeMartino]

I'd have to take another look at the tape, but I suspect you misunderstood something. I thought Kafta spy said that the Hand minions in the attacking ships hadn't destroyed the Liandra because they wanted him alive. Naturally he would offer to spare their lives in exchange for releasing him, and promise them power if they allied themselves with the Hand.

But I think it was pretty clear that both he and Martell knew that Liandra was toast as soon as Kafta was safely aboard the minion's ship. Certainly that was Martell's belief at the end, which is why he sent his little present to them.

Regards,

Joe

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Joseph DeMartino
Sigh Corps
Pat Tallman Division
joseph-demartino@att.net

 

[Jade Jaguar]

I've looked at the tape three times, and the hooded Hand minion clearly says that their instructions (from The Hand) are to leave the the Liandra unharmed for now, if possible, but if Kafta will not be returned, then they will have no choice but to destroy the Liandra. I noticed this the first time I saw it, and it struck me as rather odd. As you say, the Liandra crew does believe that the Hand minions are lying, and indeed, they could be, so if you don't agree with my hypothesis that they are not, you may be right. But they clearly state that their sponsors, presumably The Hand, WANT to leave the Liandra unharmed for the present. So my question stands.

------------------
You're speaking treason! Olivia De Havilland as Maid Marian
Fluently! Errol Flynn as Robin Hood
You're talking treason! Olivia De Havilland as Arabella Bishop
I trust I'm not obscure. Errol Flynn as Dr. Peter Blood

Pallindromes of the month: Snug was I, ere I saw guns.
Doom an evil deed, liven a mood.

 

[Dave Thomer]

Well, there was the whole concept that the Hand reward loyalty, which is why they wanted Kafta alive in the first place despite the dubious tactical nature of THAT decision. Maybe they *were* actually inclined to reward the Liandra for working with them.

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Dave Thomer
This Is Not News

 

[Jade Jaguar]

Dave, what you say could be so, but that is not my question. The hooded Hand minion clearly states that their sponsors, presumably The Hand, WANT the Liandra left alive for NOW, apart from any inclination to reward loyalty. This is what makes me think that they weren't lying. In trying to persuade the Liandra to give up Kafta, surely they would want to seem believable, so saying something like "We reward loyalty", or we always keep our word, those kinds of assurances, true or not, are to be expected. But why say something like "We have orders to keep you alive for now, if possible", without any apparent reason for it? Unless maybe it is true. But why would they want the Liandra and crew to live? Surely it would be an ulterior motive.

------------------
You're speaking treason! Olivia De Havilland as Maid Marian
Fluently! Errol Flynn as Robin Hood
You're talking treason! Olivia De Havilland as Arabella Bishop
I trust I'm not obscure. Errol Flynn as Dr. Peter Blood

Pallindromes of the month: Snug was I, ere I saw guns.
Doom an evil deed, liven a mood.

 

[Dave Thomer]

Are you referring to the point where the minion says 'Release him to us, and you may leave this place unharmed? This solution is preferable to the ones we serve'? Again, that scene seems to me that the Hand are prepared to make a quid pro quo if that's what's necessary to get Kafta back alive. Or at least that they are prepared to offer one. The minion seems to imply that the Hand is not even considering the option of getting Kafta back and then shooting the Liandra, so getting Kafta back and letting the Liandra go is preferable to destroying the Lieandra and Kafta.

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Dave Thomer
This Is Not News

 

[bakana]

I read it as: Letting the Liandra escape is a price they are Willing to pay in order to get their spy back.

Since they'd already been Shooting at the Liandra when they thought the spy was making his escape, it's pretty clear they Don't have any instructions to keep the crew or ambassadors alive.

Whatever info that spy was after must have been pretty important to the Hand.



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Do not ascribe your own motivations to others:
At best, it will break your heart.
At worst, it will get you dead."

 

[Jade Jaguar]

The cloaked/hooded Hand minion says: "Release him to us and you may leave this place alive. That solution is prefered by those we serve. But if destroying your ship is the only way to prevent him from being questioned further, we will do so."

The Hand minion could be lying, or the only reason "those we serve" prefer to leave them alive is to get Minister Kafta back. If anyone believes this, I can't prove them wrong. But I have a feeling that there is more to it than this, see possibilities in my original post. I think that the Hand minion communicated with "those we serve" shortly before making this statement, and TWS were only then apprised of the fact that the Liandra was there, and had ulterior motives for wanting them to survive. At any rate, it seems their motive for recovering Kafta was to keep him out of Ranger hands, and "Rewarding loyalty" aside, that could have been easily and safely accomplished by blowing the Liandra away. In other words, it looks like JMS foreshadowing to me. Sure hope we get to find out, that is get a series!

------------------
You're speaking treason! Olivia De Havilland as Maid Marian
Fluently! Errol Flynn as Robin Hood
You're talking treason! Olivia De Havilland as Arabella Bishop
I trust I'm not obscure. Errol Flynn as Dr. Peter Blood

Pallindromes of the month: Snug was I, ere I saw guns.
Doom an evil deed, liven a mood.

[This message has been edited by Jade Jaguar (edited January 28, 2002).]

 

[Dave Thomer]

Well, you're right, it COULD be an elaborate swerve, but here's something of a turnaround question: if TWS have an agenda in wanting to keep the Liandra alive, why tip off the Liandra to that, and risk them destroying themselves in an act of self-sacrifice? This is one of those cases where I think the surface reading of events makes more sense than the possible hidden meanings, at least with what we know so far.

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Dave Thomer
This Is Not News

 

[Mondo Londo]

It's possible the Hand wants the Liandra (and its cargo hold of of diplomats to survive) to spread fear and terror, etc.

If each of those diplomats were to return home and say "This new race showed up and blew up the newest, fastest Ranger ship; and we only escaped through their mercy," it could benefit the long range plans of the Hand. ISA members could become more willing to enter into agreements with the Hand.

On the other hand, were the Liandra blown to pieces, there would be no record of what happened to it and the Valen and the colony(remember, the Liandra lost its long range communications ability). Thus, their destruction could have been an accident, and there would be no immediate cause for terror, fear, etc.

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"What's up, Drakh?"

Michael Garibaldi

 

[Jade Jaguar]

Mondo, your thoughts seem like a good possibility to me, but if we get a series, I'm still going to be watching for a traitor planted by The Hand, as that would tie in with the previous crew's dissappearance.

------------------
You're speaking treason! Olivia De Havilland as Maid Marian
Fluently! Errol Flynn as Robin Hood
You're talking treason! Olivia De Havilland as Arabella Bishop
I trust I'm not obscure. Errol Flynn as Dr. Peter Blood

Pallindromes of the month: Snug was I, ere I saw guns.
Doom an evil deed, liven a mood.

 

[Myrl]

I person will say just about anything to get what they want. That includes half-hearted deals or flat-out lies. This reminds of a scene in The Emperor's New Groove: "Let us out this closet and we'll burn your house down!" "Don't you mean 'or'?" "...Alright, OR we'll burn your house down."

Then again this is JMS we're talkin' about here. The same nit-picking writer who made "Laurel Takashima" blip on a computer screen when the assasin opened the door in the Gathering.

So.. we're back at square one. (great help myrl.

way to go)

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I have to believe in a world outside my own mind. I have to believe that my actions still have meaning... even if I can't remember them. I have to believe that when my eyes are closed, the world's still there.

-Leonard Shelby (aka Guy Pearce) from Memento

 

[RW7427]

On a silly note, I wonder if the Hand envied the Psi Corp for their black leather gloves.

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Dulann: You don't solve your problems by hitting them.
David Martel: Yeah, well, it made me feel better.

 

[Tigara]

Aye, and they probably envie the dark riders from Lord of the Rings for their dark swords flowing robes and valiant steeds.

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Sheridan:Are you sure we can't jump
Lennierositive
Sheridan:Then we have a problem
Lennier:No $h!t Sherlock
Sheridan:RUN FOR IT!!!!
Downbelow Sound Archive

 

[wipster]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR> The Hand's puppets <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't know if you meant that as a pun or not, but it had me ROFLOL

Well done!

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Wipster

"Live Long in Prosser"

 

[sassy]

so they can have someone left to sell avon?

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Remember folks, you to can be another victim! contributed by DW.