Why Rangers Might Fail - Analysis

drakh · Nov 6, 2001

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by PsionTen:
Seeing as how neither you nor I are involved in the TV biz then how can you claim to know what they perceive as a misstep.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>TV is a business. The goal of a business is to earn as much money as possible for the shareholders. I didn't need any special knowledge to figure that out. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>I have heard you argue several times that airing Black Scorpion was not a fiasco for Sci-Fi.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Well, I believe they did air it in prime time for a while. If it was a total ratings disaster from the get-go, you'd think they'd have pulled it a lot quicker than they did. Heck, for a while, they were even talking about buying a second season.

In any case, my point here was that picking it up was not a sign of brain damage by the scifi suits, since they judge shows based on potential profitability rather than quality. SciFi took a risk, hoping BS would gather a decent audience despite the show being crap. In the end, it turned out they were wrong.

It's now easy to criticize them in hindsight, but as proven again and again, quality is of limited value when trying to anticipate the popularity of the show. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Of course you liked it, which is cause enough for me to doubt the veracity of your opinions and the wisdom of your insight.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I've never seen the show. Judging by the comments from people who's opinions I trust, I don't plan to either.

But just because I think a show is bad, doesn't mean it can't make a profit, and if BS/Farscape/Chronicle makes a profit for SciFi, which they again can use to fund something I might enjoy, I'd say they should go for it. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Oh I'm sorry then. I wasn't aware of your psychic abilities in that area. Or are you an entertainment journalist as well as a budding network programmer?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Well, if I'm not good enough for you, there are, as I've said, there are people here who are/have been involved with the TV biz in one way or another. I'm sure they'll be happy to correct me should I be wrong. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Of course a REAL journalist would have actually gone through the time and trouble of interviewing sources before trying to explain the actions of an immense organization.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I'm tempted to dig up your little speech about how you had a life and didn't have time to do any fact checking when it came to something as insignificant as SF TV...

However, I'm pretty sure I have enough relevant bits of info (generally the ratings, plus some info on budgets) to make an decent assessment of the SciFi's actions. And a consistent pattern forms. I find that much preferable to simply ranting about how they are brain dead morons with incomprehensible motives. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>you just come off as their cheerleader.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I have this thing about challenging statements I believe to be wrong. The fact that SciFi has recently extended the life of two of my favorite shows (B5 and Stargate) makes me all that more motivated. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>That's funny, because your stuff often comes off like its the official WORD OF GOD. Glad to see that you're just throwing out opinions like the rest of the lowly subjects that you enlighten with the brilliance of your "common sense" deductions.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I try to only make statements that are, to the best of my knowledge, supported by facts, and I don't back down from them unless someone proves my facts are wrong.

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You are not entitled to your own opinion. You are only entitled to your own informed opinion.
-- Harlan Ellison quoting Gustave Flaubert

drakh@spamcop.net

bakana · Nov 7, 2001

And, in this corner, wearing the Red Speedo and weighing in at 2Gazillion PSI is the challenger...

------------------
The 3 most common elements in the Universe:
Hydrogen, Greed, Stupidity!

channe · Nov 7, 2001

Boys, boys, calm down, or I'll be forced to take you out via denn'bok...

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In our sleep, pain which cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, until, in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom through the grace of God.
-Aeschylus

PsionTen · Nov 7, 2001

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> TV is a business. The goal of a business is to earn as much money as possible for the shareholders. I didn't need any special knowledge to figure that out. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well then going by your definition public television shouldn't even be on the air, seeing as how it is a non-profit business that doesn't have shareholders. But you are incorrect in another sense as well. There have been shows, few in number, that networks have stuck with, even though the ratings were in the pit and unnattractive to advertisers (i.e. losing money) and they went on to become classics. There are even cases when write-in campaigns have saved shows that were about to be killed, because of low ratings.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Heck, for a while, they were even talking about buying a second season.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Demonstrating further proof of their idiocy.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> It's now easy to criticize them in hindsight, but as proven again and again, quality is of limited value when trying to anticipate the popularity of the show.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's absolutely easy for me to criticize them in hindsight. Why shouldn't I? But to challenge your assertion more directly, I'm saying point-blank that your common everyday moron off the streets could have "anticipated the show's limited appeal." C'mon here, were aren't talking about a controversial piece of artwork here ... sometimes a pile of elephant dung is just a pile of elephant dung.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>I've never seen the show. Judging by the comments from people who's opinions I trust, I don't plan to either. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Excuse me? You never saw the damn thing! Some people find it hard to comment on something intelligently unless they've actually examined the evidence for themselves. Read all the insider snippets and word-of-mouth gossip you want, but nothing relays the horror that was "Black Scorpion" quite like the show itself. Much like civilians asking veterans what Vietnam was like, there is only one answer, "you had to be there." You weren't.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Well, if I'm not good enough for you, there are, as I've said, there are people here who are/have been involved with the TV biz in one way or another. I'm sure they'll be happy to correct me should I be wrong. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Seeing as how you never actually watched the show why on earth would you ever choose to comment on it in the first place? Just to stick up for a multi-million dollar organaization? Why don't you go and actually watch an episode first and then come back and tell me how wise it was for Sci-fi to air it.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> I'm tempted to dig up your little speech about how you had a life and didn't have time to do any fact checking when it came to something as insignificant as SF TV...
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Why bother? I readily admit it. But then again, I never claimed to know the inner-workings of a cable channel either ... you did. I said before and I'll say again, I'm just Joe Average... I call 'em how I see 'em, I don't claim to wield any special understanding... you do. Since you have taken up the mantle of being the know-it-all authority of the Sci-fi channel, then I think you owe a special duty to be accurate... or at the very least to have examined the very essence of what it is you're talking about. As for me, I'll just grab another beer from the fridge and continue to call them all a bunch of morons until I see something that is pleasing to the eyes.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> I try to only make statements that are, to the best of my knowledge, supported by facts, and I don't back down from them unless someone proves my facts are wrong. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

How wrong is it to call yourself an authority on the whole Black Scorpion issue and all of its ramifications, yet NEVER HAVE SEEN THE SHOW!

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>The fact that SciFi has recently extended the life of two of my favorite shows (B5 and Stargate) makes me all that more motivated <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well goody, I'll be sure to put that in the Christmas card that I was going to send them. But it seems to me that you're appreciating the wrong channel. Unless I'm wrong here, it was TNT that extended the life of B5... sci-fi only showed you the re-runs of what was. If that is the reason for your alligence, then you're praising the wrong channel. Even now, its not entirely correct to say that Sci-fi is "extending" B5... they're airing a single movie... TNT aired several movies, yet they are universally hated on this board. TNT brought you Crusade... Sci-Fi has yet to announce anything of an on-going nature.

As far as Sci-fi picking up Stargate SG-1, I think I'll wait to see what changes, if any, are made before I start praising them. They could slash the budget and/or make other creative changes that may make me wish that they wouldn't have acquired the rights at all. There are things worse than death.

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The Revolution Will Not Be Televised.

PsionTen · Nov 7, 2001

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Give it up drakh. If you don't agree with him, you're a Sci-Fi cheerleader, regardless of the validity of your arguments. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The validity of his arguments? Of the two of us, I am the only one to have actually watched the horror of the scorpion. But if the pom-poms fit, shake 'em babe.

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The Revolution Will Not Be Televised.

Quagmire · Nov 7, 2001

KoshN is right. You're argument was based on the general consensus that the show was awful so not having seen it means nothing. The only reason more people have not been supporting your side of the argument is that we've been on boards long enough to understand what is going on here. DFtT

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"This so-called new religion is nothing but a pack of weird rituals and chants designed to take away the money of fools. Let us say the Lord's Prayer forty times, but first, let's pass the collection plate."-Rev. Lovejoy in The Joy of Sect

KoshN · Nov 7, 2001

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by PsionTen:

The validity of his arguments? Of the two of us, I am the only one to have actually watched the horror of the scorpion. But if the pom-poms fit, shake 'em babe.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

OK, this is the last time.

Drakh's arguments about Sci-Fi and Black Scorpion make a lot of sense. If they can buy it cheap, and get ratings enough to generate a profit, from a purely (admittedly shortsighted) business POV, it makes sense. He does not have to have seen Black Scorpion to make this argument. The same could be said for any show on any network. If they can pull in more money for advertising than it cost them to air it, they make a profit. Business is all about profit, nothing else. Lots of people, especially business execs, will gladly sacrifice possible long-term profit and viability of the company for increased short term profit and increased $$$$ for themselves. Reason: They figure they'll have moved on to another company by the time the negative impact on the company happens. They don't give a crap about anything except their personal well being and $.

Now, I agree that Black Scorpion was one of the worst pieces of crap to ever be aired, anywhere, anytime. Looking beyond just the short term $ (the immediate profits), it could lower a viewer's opinion of Sci-Fi in general, and lower a viewer's opinion of the Sci-Fi Channel and those personnel running that channel. The execs don't care about that, because they won't be there. They'll have moved on to another company, and will be doing the same thing at their new company.

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KoshN
-------------
Vorlon Empire

"To Live and Die in Starlight"
pilot movie for "Babylon 5 - The Legend of the Rangers"
January 2002 on The Sci-Fi Channel. http://www.scifi.com/b5rangers/

[This message has been edited by KoshN (edited November 07, 2001).]

PsionTen · Nov 7, 2001

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>KoshN is right. You're argument was based on the general consensus that the show was awful so not having seen it means nothing. The only reason more people have not been supporting your side of the argument is that we've been on boards long enough to understand what is going on here. DFtT <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

1-- No, my "consensus" was that only a group of morons would have aired such a horrible piece of crap. Drakh's "consensus" was that there was a cost-benefit analysis to the whole thing. I have no idea what your "consensus" is but apparently it means getting in my face.

2-- Dr. Gonzo, I don't ever remember asking for anyone's support. I was under the impression that this was just a discussion between me and Drakh... but if you want to keep score and play favorites, that's your business. Seeing as how I don't know any of you from atom, I could care less.

3-- As far as you bragging about your longevity here, I can only say good for you. Its good to have friends. Have a nice life. Great to hear it.

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The Revolution Will Not Be Televised.

channe · Nov 7, 2001

I have mad denn'bok skills...

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In our sleep, pain which cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, until, in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom through the grace of God.
-Aeschylus

bakana · Nov 7, 2001

Somehow, I think it's time to post these again.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> THE TWELVE COMMANDMENTS OF FLAMING

1. Make things up about your opponent: It's important to make your lies sound true. Preface your argument with the word "clearly." "Clearly, Brian Hillis is a racist, and a dirtball to boot."

2. Be an armchair psychologist: You're a smart person. You've heard of Freud. You took a psychology course in college. Clearly, you're qualified to psychoanalyze your opponent. "Peach Pshawski (God Bless You!), by using the word 'zucchini' in her posting, shows she has a bad case of .........."

3. Cross-post your flames: Everyone on the net is just waiting for the next literary masterpiece to leave your terminal. From OPINION to EZ-READER to PETS to CHIT-CHAT, they're all holding their breaths until your next flame. Therefore, post everywhere.

4. Conspiracies abound: If everyone's against you, the reason can't *possibly* be that you're a #anatomypart@. There's obviously a conspiracy against you, and you will be doing the entire net a favor by exposing it.

5. Lawsuit threats: This is the reverse of Rule #4 (sort of like the Yin & Yang of flaming). Threatening a lawsuit is always considered to be in good form. "By saying that I've posted to the wrong group, Didley has libelled me, slandered me, and sodomized me. See you in court, Didley."

6. Force them to document their claims: Even if Ralph Gagliano states outright that he likes tomato sauce on his pasta, you should demand documentation. If Newsweek hasn't written an article on Ralph's pasta preferences, then Ralph's obviously lying.

7. Use foreign phrases: French is good, but Latin is the lingua franca of flaming. You should use the words "ad hominem" at least three times per article. Other favorite Latin phrases are "ad nauseum", "vini, vidi, vici", "fetuccini alfredo".

8. Tell 'em how smart you are: Why use intelligent arguments to convince them you're smart when all you have to do is tell them? State that you're a member of Mensa or Mega or Dorks of America. Tell them the scores you received on every exam since high school. "I got an 800 on my SATs, LSATs, GREs, MCATs, and I can also spell the word 'premeiotic'".

9. Accuse your opponent of censorship. It is your right as an American citizen to post whatever the hell you want to the net (as guaranteed by the 937th Amendment, I think). Anyone who tries to limit your cross-posting or move a flame war to Net.users is either a communist, a fascist, or both.

10. Doubt their existence: You've never actually seen your opponent, have you? And since you're the center of the universe, you should have seen them by now, shouldn't you? Therefore, THEY DON'T EXIST! This is the beauty of flamers' logic.

11. Lie, cheat, steal, leave the toilet seat up.

12. When in doubt, insult: If you forget the other 11 rules, remember this one. At some point during your wonderful career as a flamer you will undoubtedly end up in a flame war with someone who is better than you. This person will expose your lies, tear apart your arguments, make you look generally like a bozo. At this point, there's only one thing to do: insult the dirtbag!!!
"Oh yeah? Well, your mother does strange things with ..........."

The Golden Rule of Flaming:

My flames will be witty, insulting, interesting, funny, caustic, or sarcastic, but never, ever, will they be boring.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

------------------
The 3 most common elements in the Universe:
Hydrogen, Greed, Stupidity!

Quagmire · Nov 7, 2001

Perhaps we should ask Antony to put that in the faq Bakana. Amusing and sad at the same time.

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"This so-called new religion is nothing but a pack of weird rituals and chants designed to take away the money of fools. Let us say the Lord's Prayer forty times, but first, let's pass the collection plate."-Rev. Lovejoy in The Joy of Sect

KoshN · Nov 7, 2001

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by bakana:
Somehow, I think it's time to post these again.

THE TWELVE COMMANDMENTS OF FLAMING

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Where did you get that(THE TWELVE COMMANDMENTS OF FLAMING)? I love it!!!

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KoshN
-------------
Vorlon Empire

"To Live and Die in Starlight"
pilot movie for "Babylon 5 - The Legend of the Rangers"
January 2002 on The Sci-Fi Channel.
http://www.scifi.com/b5rangers/

KoshN · Nov 7, 2001

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Doctor Gonzo:
KoshN is right. You're argument was based on the general consensus that the show was awful so not having seen it means nothing. The only reason more people have not been supporting your side of the argument is that we've been on boards long enough to understand what is going on here. DFtT

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I was about to advise you to don your Nomex underwear, but too late!

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KoshN
-------------
Vorlon Empire

"To Live and Die in Starlight"
pilot movie for "Babylon 5 - The Legend of the Rangers"
January 2002 on The Sci-Fi Channel.
http://www.scifi.com/b5rangers/

KoshN · Nov 7, 2001

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by channe:
I have mad denn'bok skills...

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Where's Sta when you need him? I was sure he'd have a comment on that one.

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KoshN
-------------
Vorlon Empire

"To Live and Die in Starlight"
pilot movie for "Babylon 5 - The Legend of the Rangers"
January 2002 on The Sci-Fi Channel.
http://www.scifi.com/b5rangers/

solaris5 · Nov 8, 2001

*kicks PsionTen's soapbox and watches him fall onto the ground*
Tee-hee!

Seriously though, I don't know if you read your posts, but you're coming off as a bit of an asshole. I mean just like a little tiny bit *puts his index finger and thumb really close together*
I mean come on dude! Breathe in - breathe out! Relax tiny grasshoper.... You must learn patience and tolerance.
My suggestion is below, although I have to say that if you're under 18, then do not do what it says below, or you'll be deemed a very bad boy!

<table bgcolor=black><tr><td bgcolor=black>Spoiler:</td></tr><tr><td>Bottle of Vodka, prefferable the real Euro one, none of that North American crap, a big fat joint, a tape of Debbie Does Dallas 2000 and some good ol' lubricant.</td></tr></table>

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I am Yu Lau! I am nobody's bitch! You are mine!

Deviot · Nov 8, 2001

PsionTen can you just chill out a bit and show some respect to you fellow board members also to these people who will be bringing to us what we hope to be a great tele move in January 19. And hopfully a series after that.

Everyone is welcome here and should feel welcome here..do not make life difficult for us.

please relax PsionTen

closing this up now.
Maybe the "why Rangers might succeed analysis " will be next

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Deviot
Lincbot@yahoo.com.au

[This message has been edited by Deviot (edited November 07, 2001).]

KoshN · Nov 8, 2001

Give it up drakh. If you don't agree with him, you're a Sci-Fi cheerleader, regardless of the validity of your arguments.

Just walk away, or channe is going to beat us up with her denn'bok.

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KoshN
-------------
Vorlon Empire

"To Live and Die in Starlight"
pilot movie for "Babylon 5 - The Legend of the Rangers"
January 2002 on The Sci-Fi Channel. http://www.scifi.com/b5rangers/

[This message has been edited by KoshN (edited November 07, 2001).]

Why Rangers Might Fail - Analysis

drakh

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Quagmire

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KoshN

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channe

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