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Why was Cusade so hated?

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LightNZ:
Crusade wasn't the problem....... it was what TNT did to jms!!!!!!!!!!!!! .

It had such potential and they destroyed it, i'm glad jms got out of it

Maybe jms will get to do Crusade HIS way someday
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<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

AMEN. You said it better than I would have!

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Somewhere, there's injustice.
Somewhere, there's danger.
Somewhere else, the tea's getting cold.
C'mon Ace, there's work to do.....
 
I'm going to step in and defend Chen here.

There were only 13 episodes. If you were to go back and watch the first 13 of B5, odds are you wouldn't like Franke that much.

It took Franke a while to start giving us greats like pieces from The Long, Twilight Struggle; Messages From Earth; Severed Dreams; Z'ha'dum; and others such as Endgame.

It takes a while to get used to the style.

Plus, Franke had this annoying clanging sound he liked to use in the themes. I can't stand it.

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"Get out of my way, or by God I'll shove you out the airlock!"
BlackStar's Messageboard
 
Also, when Franke first started doing the B5 music, jms received lots of complaints about it!!! Same as he did for chen

So yeah, same old.......just wait and let jms' creations come through
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"Will you follow me into fire? Into storm, into darkness, into death?!
 
I reckon Crusade was great, had alot of potential but TNT just screwed it all up...

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"When it is time, come to this place, call our name, we will be here" -Walkers of Sigma957
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by whitestar90:
I reckon Crusade was great, had alot of potential but TNT just screwed it all up...

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Well said
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-With every light is born a shadow-
 
I still say it is the music that eventually made a lot of people bored with Crusade. TNT interference might have addled the storyline and caused great anger among we fans but still would have bored new fans who knew nothing of the conflict or Babylon 5 for that matter.

However, after hearing all your arguments, I agree that all of us would have probably got used to Evan Chen. It depends though. Maybe JMS might get fed up with Chen one day and smash his keyboard.

I would argue the plotline sucks compared to B5 but I now attribute it to TNT interference. May their CEOs be blessed with pestillence and testicular problems.

Just joking. Their businessmen. They're not artist. So let us feel pity at their foolhardiness and laugh at their mistake of stopping what could have become the next Star Trek.

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May the light of the Buddha, Dhamma and Sangha protect you.

May you all be well and happy, free from suffering, free from sickness.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by AngelSummers:
I still say it is the music that eventually made a lot of people bored with Crusade. ...

However, after hearing all your arguments, I agree that all of us would have probably got used to Evan Chen. It depends though. Maybe JMS might get fed up with Chen one day and smash his keyboard.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Over time, after I got used to it, I grew to like Chen's Crusade music.
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I've watched each episode 5 or 6 times by now.

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KoshN
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Vorlon Empire

"To Live and Die in Starlight"
pilot movie for "Babylon 5 - The Legend of the Rangers"
January 19, 2002 at 9PM & 11PM EST, January 20, 2002 at 5PM on The Sci-Fi Channel (US).
http://www.scifi.com/b5rangers/
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR> their mistake of stopping what could have become the next Star Trek.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You must have really Hated Crusade to say anything that ugly about it.

The Worst Crusade episode is still better than any Dreck episode.



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Do not ascribe your own motivations to others:
At best, it will break your heart.
At worst, it will get you dead."
 
You folks put way too much empasis on score. People don't watch TV for the music. They have CD players for that.

Crusade got slammed because:

1) TNT execs hurt the quality. These criticisms are often valid. Unfortunately, the TNT-shaded eps were aired before the "pure" ones.

2) It wasn't B5, literally. Some people can't accept that.

3) THERE WERE ONLY 13 FREAKIN' EPISODES. Of course there wasn't enough time to explore the characters and set up a story arc.

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"You do not make history. You can only hope to survive it."
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>The Worst Crusade episode is still better than any [T]rek episode.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You aren't serious... are you?



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"Dawn's in trouble? Must be Tuesday." -- Buffy Summers, "Once More With Feeling."
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by PsionTen:
You aren't serious... are you?

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No, that's not quite right.

The worst Crusade episode is better than 50% of the TOS and TNG episodes, 75% of the DS9 episodes, and 99% of the Voyager episodes. I won't say anything about the Enterprise episodes because, while I have 'em all on tape, I haven't watched 'em all yet.
smile.gif


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KoshN
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Vorlon Empire

"To Live and Die in Starlight"
pilot movie for "Babylon 5 - The Legend of the Rangers"
January 19, 2002 at 9PM & 11PM EST, January 20, 2002 at 5PM on The Sci-Fi Channel (US).
http://www.scifi.com/b5rangers/
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GKarsEye:
You folks put way too much empasis on score. People don't watch TV for the music. They have CD players for that.

Crusade got slammed because:

1) TNT execs hurt the quality. These criticisms are often valid. Unfortunately, the TNT-shaded eps were aired before the "pure" ones.

2) It wasn't B5, literally. Some people can't accept that.

3) THERE WERE ONLY 13 FREAKIN' EPISODES. Of course there wasn't enough time to explore the characters and set up a story arc.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

GKarsEye is right. However, where score starts to REALLY BUG ME, is when the same droning score is used, constantly, in every episode for years, and then is used across Trek shows. I'm talking about the in-show music, not so much the beginning and ending themes. After awhile, the same damn music just gets to be like Chinese water torture.
frown.gif
When I now hear Voyager music in Enterprise, I want to toss my cookies.
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KoshN
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Vorlon Empire

"To Live and Die in Starlight"
pilot movie for "Babylon 5 - The Legend of the Rangers"
January 19, 2002 at 9PM & 11PM EST, January 20, 2002 at 5PM on The Sci-Fi Channel (US).
http://www.scifi.com/b5rangers/
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR> The worst Crusade episode is better than 50% of the TOS and TNG episodes, 75% of the DS9 episodes, and 99% of the Voyager episodes. I won't say anything about the Enterprise episodes because, while I have 'em all on tape, I haven't watched 'em all yet.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sorry, my bad. I must be wandering into one of those weird universes were everything is turned upside-down and inside-out, because there's no way in hell someone from my universe could honestly think that a failed and defunct sequel of a good sci-fi series could compete with one of the greatest sci-fi series of all time.

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"Dawn's in trouble? Must be Tuesday." -- Buffy Summers, "Once More With Feeling."
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by PsionTen:
Sorry, my bad. I must be wandering into one of those weird universes were everything is turned upside-down and inside-out, because there's no way in hell someone from my universe could honestly think that a failed and defunct sequel of a good sci-fi series could compete with one of the greatest sci-fi series of all time.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Trek was the first franchise that really caught on with the mainstream public. As such, it'll always be the first, and hence some people will think it has greater stature than it really has. For years, they've just been milking the franchise.

Popularity and quality do not always go hand in hand.

I stand by my percentage statements of the previous post.

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KoshN
-------------
Vorlon Empire

"To Live and Die in Starlight"
pilot movie for "Babylon 5 - The Legend of the Rangers"
January 19, 2002 at 9PM & 11PM EST, January 20, 2002 at 5PM on The Sci-Fi Channel (US).
http://www.scifi.com/b5rangers/
 
Besides, wouldn't this just be a matter of taste? Obviously some people like Trek - a lot of people, from what I've heard. Good for them.

Then again, there are also plenty of people who actually really liked Crusade. I'd say they have every right to say that for them, Crusade was far better than, say, Trek - just as you have the right to think otherwise, PsionTen.

People are different.
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"Isn't the universe an amazing place? I wouldn't live anywhere else." - G'Kar, B5: Rangers
Kribu's Lounge | kribu@ranger.b5lr.com
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR> just as you have the right to think otherwise, PsionTen. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's why I wrote what I wrote.

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"Dawn's in trouble? Must be Tuesday." -- Buffy Summers, "Once More With Feeling."
 
I've been reading through this thread today, and it brings back a question I find myself asking from time to time. While we are all here to express our opinions and ideas and to gather new ones, why do some find it necessary to be mean about it?

I can say I like this or I don't like that without insulting anyone. And I can say the same thing while I am insulting someone on purpose. But what, honestly, is the purpose of insulting someone who simply likes a show you didn't like?

I personally never watch "Buffy, the Vampire Slayer". But I don't think less of AntonyF for being a fan. We just like different things. I don't think less of my mother for liking all of those lawyer/cop/hospital e.r. shows. That doesn't make them bad, nor does it give me any right to insult people who do watch them.

That's all. As to this thread, why do some people really hate Crusade? Because it was different, that's why! That guaranteed some would love it and some would hate it. I just still wish TNT had been fair about it, admitted it was not interested in the property, AND SOLD IT TO SOMEONE WHO WAS. How very different Sci-Fi might be today if that had happened.
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"The Bible is a book: it is a good book, but is is not the only book" - Inherit the Wind

"I do not believe that the same God who
has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use."—Galileo

hypatia@b5fan.b5lr.com

[This message has been edited by hypatia (edited January 02, 2002).]
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by hypatia:
I've been reading through this thread today, and it brings back a question I find myself asking from time to time. While we are all here to express our opinions and ideas and to gather new ones, why do some find it necessary to be insulting about it?

I can say I like this or I don't like that without insulting anyone. And I can say the same thing while I am insulting someone on purpose. But what, honestly, is the purpose of insulting someone who simply likes a show you didn¡¦t like?

I personally never watch ¡§Buffy, the Vampire Slayer¡¨. But I don¡¦t think less of AntonyF for being a fan. We just like different things. I don¡¦t think less of my mother for liking all of those lawyer/cop/hospital e.r. shows. That doesn¡¦t make them bad, nor does it give me any right to insult people who do watch them.

That¡¦s all. As to this thread, why do some people really hate Crusade? Because it was different, that¡¦s why! That guaranteed some would love it and some would hate it. I just still wish TNT had been fair about it, admitted it was not interested in the property, AND SOLD IT TO SOMEONE WHO WAS. How very different Sci-Fi might be today if that had happened. ƒ¼


<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

For some reason, some really squirrely characters are working their way into your posts:

That¡¦s
that¡¦s
ƒ¼


I just still wish TNT had been fair about it, admitted it was not interested in the property, and let it go instead of trying to eradicate it, and prevent it from ever being shown anywhere.

AR15firing.gif
TNT Anti-Crusade Suits
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KoshN
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Vorlon Empire

"To Live and Die in Starlight"
pilot movie for "Babylon 5 - The Legend of the Rangers"
January 19, 2002 at 9PM & 11PM EST, January 20, 2002 at 5PM on The Sci-Fi Channel (US).
http://www.scifi.com/b5rangers/
 
PsionTen, I've had acid trips that were more logical than your posts.

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"You do not make history. You can only hope to survive it."
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR> PsionTen, I've had acid trips that were more logical than your posts.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm sure you have.

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"Dawn's in trouble? Must be Tuesday." -- Buffy Summers, "Once More With Feeling."
 
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