Worries; young actors, no ads...

KoshN · Sep 7, 2001

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by WarrenGG:
My last little upset with LR was the 'more action' thing JMS said. Im over that not, but am a little worried about the young actors...Babylon5 had all old, mature adults with great deep voices for yelling and talking seriousely. Will LR be good with a bunch of youngins? I loved B5 for that reason; no kids, no teens, all adults.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Same here! A bunch of young, virtually unknown actors as regulars? Seems kinda weak, but maybe they'll surprise us.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>
My second problem is the channel the movie will be playing. With JMS's comments on how the movie is nearly a feature film when it comes to quality, I get high hopes. BUT, the scifi channel attracts a limited population of fans...its a small niche and it will be hard to find people who arent B5 fans to watch the movie. I mean, even if they have ads every minute, its only on that channel.
[/B]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I've only been saying this for what feels like forever, on:

rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated ,
http://www.scifi.com/bboard/browse.cgi/1/5/1957 ,

and
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SavCrusade2x .

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>
I wish, ohh I wish upon a star, that they could get ads on other channels everywhere, like FOX hehe.
[/B]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Like TNT's "Drama" ads. on Sci-Fi? <g>

As I've said on rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated , I wish the powers that be (Warner Brothers/Sci-Fi) would help us fans publicize the show:

From my rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated posts:

"Something has got to get the B5 universe out in front of the eyeballs of the people who don't have the Sci-Fi channel. How about billboards for the upcoming B5:LotR movie?"

"I guess it's up to us fans to get things going from the grassroots. A little help from Warner Brothers would be welcome, just to help us get the word across (e.g. bumperstickers, inside-the-window decals to put on our cars, backing the fan club, etc.). Bumperstickers and inside-the-window decals wouldn't cost them much, because they could get a bulk price, a much better than what individual fans could get, and it would lend legitimacy to the effort because it'd show some studio backing. Well, we know none of that is ever going to happen. It's 100% up to us fans, and if we're the least bit passionate about it, we'll look like fanatics or nerds."

"How about Warner Brothers and/or Sci-Fi producing some advertising items to help the fanbase bring more people to the shows on Sci-Fi (B5 now, Crusade on 10/8, and B5:LotR on 1/2)? That wouldn't cost much from their POV, but would reach people why don't have Sci-Fi. Yes, they'd have to spend a relatively tiny amount of money to do it, and the payback isn't 100% guaranteed, so I'm sure it's out of the question. How about if they sold them to us, or just charged us shipping? Naah, it'd still cost them something, at least for distribution."

"And what are they going to do to advertise the new series? Anything? Or is that 100% Sci-Fi's responsibility? We'll probably see a couple commercials, the last week of December, on Sci-Fi or maybe USA, but that'll be it. There will be no bus side ads, no billboards (except maybe in NYC and LA), and certainly nothing for the fans to use (bumperstickers, etc., after all we're
trivial, small potatoes, of no use whatsoever). They may put an ad in Variety, but in the general population, who reads that? The most we can hope for is an ad. in TVGuide, and we probably won't even get that. A really cheap way to do it would be to make some color ads for fans to download and print."

"OK, so a movie to help popularize B5/Crusade/B5:LotR is 100% out of the question. How about the other ideas mentioned above? I don't care what it is as long as people don't have to be watching the Sci-Fi channel (or any other TV) to see it. Reason: 1. You must have the Sci-Fi channel. 2. You must be watching TV and tuned to the Sci-Fi channel when the ad. is run, to see it. Lacking 1 and 2, you missed it. Billboards, bus sides, and bumperstickers are much more forgiving. You'll see 'em every day on the way to and from work."

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>
Anyhow, I have yet to see ANY ads about the movie.....yeah yeah, its still early. But some more promo pics would be nice, all around the net. Keep in mind, you guys may have ads on your scifi channel....so if you do, sorry, I dont know.
[/B]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

There was the downloadable trailer on Sci-Fi.com, and a couple of seconds on a Summer of Sci-Fi ad. (heard about it but missed it).

------------------
KoshN
----------------
Vorlon Empire

"To Live and Die in Starlight"
pilot movie for the new series
"Babylon 5 - The Legend of the Rangers"
January 2, 2002 on The Sci-Fi Channel. http://www.scifi.com/b5rangers/

[This message has been edited by KoshN (edited September 07, 2001).]

[This message has been edited by KoshN (edited September 07, 2001).]

[This message has been edited by KoshN (edited September 07, 2001).]

Joseph DeMartino · Sep 7, 2001

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>A bunch of young, virtually unknown actors as regulars?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, this is almost as bad as B5, which had a bunch of slightly older, virtually unknown actors as regulars. We all remember what a disaster that was.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>And what are they going to do to advertise the new series? Anything? Or is that 100% Sci-Fi's responsibility?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

First of all, we don't even know there's going to be a series, so even someone who was privy to Sci-Fi's plans and was willing to talk couldn't answer this question. And yes, advertising the show is the network's repsonsibility. Or do you remember seeing a lot of ads from Warner Bros. for E.R. and The West Wing?

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>We'll probably see a couple commercials, the last week of December, on Sci-Fi or maybe USA, but that'll be it.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

And you know this, how?

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>There will be no bus side ads, no billboards (except maybe in NYC and LA)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Funny you should mention this, since bus-side ads, billboards and radio commercials were exactly what TNT used to promote the B5 fifth season and the reruns.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> ...and certainly nothing for the fans to use (bumperstickers, etc., after all we're trivial, small potatoes, of no use whatsoever).<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah. Why dont we have B5 bumper stickers like the thousands of Buffy, 3rd Rock, and X-Files bumper stickers I see all over the place? Oh, wait a second, I never see that kind of thing. Maybe this isn't an effective way to promote TV shows?

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Something has got to get the B5 universe out in front of the eyeballs of the people who don't have the Sci-Fi channel. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Good plan. Sci-Fi should also advertise the movie heavily in Europe - where there are millions more people who won't be able to watch it. That'll make it a success.

In this country, the B5 universe can only be watched by people who have the Sci-Fi Channel - just as it could only be watched by people who had TNT before and had a PTEN station in their area before that. You advertise to the people who can buy your product. If I have a great little deli in Florida I'm not going to increase foot traffic by running radio ads in Minnesota.

Unless the people who see those billboards immediately sign-up for the Sci-Fi Channel based on them (and heaven knows I subscribe to new cable tiers all the time based on a single billboard or magazine ad) making those people "aware" of the show isn't going to do any good. And you've argued on the *.mod that people who can't get Sci-Fi as a basic cable channel aren't going to want to pay extra to get it, so exactly what purpose are these billboards and bumper stickers supposed to serve?

And how many billboards do you normally see for one shot TV movies on any channel? How much off-network promotion is there? Why do you think Sci-Fi and Warner Bros. somehow owe it to the world to promote this single TV movie out of all proportion to what any other network does for the 8 or 10 TV movies it produces year in and year out?

When and if Rangers becomes a series, Sci-Fi will promote it. They'll have a major stake in the show's success and every reason in the world to want people to watch it. You're assumption that they won't advertise the show is groundless. They'll promote the TV movie for the same reason. But don't expect the advertising budget for The Others to be lavished on Rangers.

Regards,

Joe

------------------
Joseph DeMartino
Sigh Corps
Pat Tallman Division
joseph-demartino@att.net

[This message has been edited by Joseph DeMartino (edited September 07, 2001).]

Dylan Neal · Sep 7, 2001

Joe D. you're the man! I couldn't have said it better myself. It's a pleasure to read posts by someone like yourself who understands the business. This is why the actors come to B5LR.com.

Cheers,

Dylan

------------------

Technomage Roanna · Sep 7, 2001

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Dylan Neal:
Joe D. you're the man!
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ah, another happy member of the Joe DM fan club. (Familiarly known as the "Earls"

)

We should make up tee shirts...

or maybe bumper stickers?

Ro

------------------
A ship in a port is safe, but that's not what ships are for.

Rear Admiral Grace Murray Hopper

crazybillyo · Sep 7, 2001

A fan club for Jody? Count me in!

------------------
Sheridan: Are you trying to cheer me up?
Ivanova: No sir, wouldn't dream of it.
Sheridan: Good, I hate being cheered up. It's depressing.
Ivanova: So in that case we're all going to die horrible, painful, lingering deaths.
Sheridan: Thank you, I feel so much better now.

RW7427 · Sep 7, 2001

I also do not think that the age of the actors in LotR matters. What really matters is their acting ability. If they can act well and knock our socks off, who cares how old they are. Besides, age isn't the focus of the movie, so why does it matter? Acting is something people of all ages can do.

------------------
Long live the Salad Rangers! We live for the Salad Bar, we die for the Salad Bar. RW, Anla'Salad'Shok'Na of the Salad Rangers

bakana · Sep 8, 2001

SciFi will do the same thing that anyone who has a SF themed movie or show does these day to promote it:

They'll send freebees to as many SF Conventions as they can find a reliable address for.

This usually takes the form of about 30 or so T-Shirts, a few hundred posters and/or flyers, and a 1000 or so Buttons with the shop's title and a bit of artwork, photo of a cast member, whatever.

I still got some of these type things from movies like Batman, The Phantom (I've also got a couple sets of Phantom Rings), Alien, etc.

The Con will use these things as Freebees. Sometimes you get them with your registration packet, sometimes they just get put out on Freebee tables. T-Shirts are generally used as Prizes in contests since there are only a very limited number.

BTw, Anyone who wants Babylon 5 bumper stickers & T-Shirts can probably find them at any good Comic or SF related Bookstore.
Or for sale in the Dealers Room at any convention.
There are dozens of designs.

All you have to do is Look.
And Purchase.

------------------
Yes, I like cats too.
Shall we exchange Recipes?

drakh · Sep 8, 2001

Jeez... Looks like I'm going to have to start posting "Hey, Joe isn't God y'know" messages now...

------------------
You are not entitled to your own opinion. You are only entitled to your own informed opinion.
-- Harlan Ellison qouting Gustave Flaubert

Technomage Roanna · Sep 8, 2001

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by drakh:
Jeez... Looks like I'm going to have to start posting "Hey, Joe isn't God y'know" messages now...

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Don't pout, Drakhy, there's room for more than one fan club...

(Guess my silliness quotient is rising as my imminent unemployment comes closer. lol...)

Ro

------------------
A ship in a port is safe, but that's not what ships are for.

Rear Admiral Grace Murray Hopper

KoshN · Sep 8, 2001

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A bunch of young, virtually unknown actors as regulars?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Joseph DeMartino:

Yeah, this is almost as bad as B5, which had a bunch of slightly older, virtually unknown actors as regulars. We all remember what a disaster that was.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You know, you're starting to become the master of snippage to support your own arguments, and in doing so, stepping on my last nerve.

I ended the sentence with "maybe they'll surprise us." That was intended to be a hopeful note. I fully intend on giving the new cast the benefit of the doubt, and expect to see a great (JMS quality level) stuff. Now please, don't come back with a reworked version of Isabelle's line about God being greatly relieved.

When I first saw the B5 pilot, I knew Andreas from TNG, Next of Kin, and The Fugitive.

I knew Claudia from The Hidden, Bruce from Tron, Scarecrow, various westerns, and a movie with Rachel Ward (Double Jeopardy - http://amazon.imdb.com/Title?0104132 ), Jeff from Taxi, and Pat and Tony from the Night of the Living Dead remake.

Now, maybe the B5:LotR pilot cast (except Andreas, of course), has been on shows I haven't watched, but I haven't seen them on anything, Nada. However, that doesn't mean they won't be good. We'll have to wait 'till 01/02/2002 to tell, and in the mean time, trust JMS's judgement.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And what are they going to do to advertise the new series? Anything? Or is that 100% Sci-Fi's responsibility?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>

First of all, we don't even know there's going to be a series, so even someone who was privy to Sci-Fi's plans and was willing to talk couldn't answer this question. And yes, advertising the show is the network's repsonsibility. Or do you remember seeing a lot of ads from Warner Bros. for E.R. and The West Wing?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Alright, the pilot then. When I spoke of "the series," it was just positive thinking.

I didn't know if both Warner Brothers and Sci-Fi might be sharing the costs.

I don't watch E.R. and so far have seen West Wing only in passing (while channel surfing). I've never really liked Martin Sheen. There's something about the actor that just irritates me.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
We'll probably see a couple commercials, the last week of December, on Sci-Fi or maybe USA, but that'll be it.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>

And you know this, how?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Where did I say I know this? I suspect this.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
There will be no bus side ads, no billboards (except maybe in NYC and LA)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>

Funny you should mention this, since bus-side ads, billboards and radio commercials were exactly what TNT used to promote the B5 fifth season and the reruns.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That was TNT. I'm talking about, Sci-Fi, NOW, not TNT in the past. There's no reason to suspect that Sci-Fi will do as TNT did.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
...and certainly nothing for the fans to use (bumperstickers, etc., after all we're trivial, small potatoes, of no use whatsoever).
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Joseph DeMartino:

Yeah. Why dont we have B5 bumper stickers like the thousands of Buffy, 3rd Rock, and X-Files bumper stickers I see all over the place? Oh, wait a second, I never see that kind of thing. Maybe this isn't an effective way to promote TV shows?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Maybe, because Buffy, 3rd Rock, and X-Files didn't need the promotion as much. They are ("were" w.r.t. 3rd Rock) bigger shows.

Maybe SOMEBODY should think outside of the box (traditional meaning, and "TV"), for a change. Your argument sounds like, "It's always been done this way. It's never going to change."

Alright, now it's my turn. How do you know that this isn't an effective way to promote TV shows? If it hasn't been done, how do you know that it won't work? You're assuming that because you've never seen them, that it's never been done and/or it never worked.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Something has got to get the B5 universe out in front of the eyeballs of the people who don't have the Sci-Fi channel.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>
Good plan. Sci-Fi should also advertise the movie heavily in Europe - where there are millions more people who won't be able to watch it. That'll make it a success.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

A smiley with a sarcastic remark, good one.
Quit being an a**.

You used to be OK, but lately you've turned into a real smart a**.
The materials I'm speaking of, would be for markets who would be able to get the channel and see the show, of course. Gees, do I have to spell everything out, so you can't twist it around???

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>

In this country, the B5 universe can only be watched by people who have the Sci-Fi Channel - just as it could only be watched by people who had TNT before and had a PTEN station in their area before that. You advertise to the people who can buy your product. If I have a great little deli in Florida I'm not going to increase foot traffic by running radio ads in Minnesota.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh, for crying out loud, there are people in this country (the U.S.A.) who could get the Sci-Fi channel, i.e. it is available to them but they don't subscribe to it at the moment. It is in their power to change that condition by subscribing to the channel.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>

Unless the people who see those billboards immediately sign-up for the Sci-Fi Channel based on them (and heaven knows I subscribe to new cable tiers all the time based on a single billboard or magazine ad) making those people "aware" of the show isn't going to do any good. And you've argued on the *.mod that people who can't get Sci-Fi as a basic cable channel aren't going to want to pay extra to get it, so exactly what purpose are these billboards and bumper stickers supposed to serve?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It'll serve to get some people to subscribe to the Sci-Fi channel (i.e. a package that contains it). If a person has never heard of B5, or B5:LotR, and does not currently subscribe to the Sci-Fi channel, how are they going to see those shows? They may be interested. They might have a mild, yet untapped, interest in sci-fi (the genre). They might like the B5 universe, if they ever saw it. However, they are not aware of B5's existence.

Why, immediately? If I see an ad., out in the real world (i.e. not on the tube), often I make a note of it, or just remember it (visually), and take care of it later. Sometimes, I put a reminder (with alarm) in my PDA (I do this with trailers I see at the movies, a lot.).

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>

And how many billboards do you normally see for one shot TV movies
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

"one shot TV movies"? Sounds like you're assuming it's going to fail. I'm not.
Gees, I thought I was the pessimist here.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>

...on any channel? How much off-network promotion is there?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I've seen plenty of X-Files and Millenium promotion, off-network, in the past. e.g. billboards and bus-side ads. I still remember which billboards they were on, and where I saw the bus-side ads. (one of the benefits of a photographic memory).

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>

Why do you think Sci-Fi and Warner Bros. somehow owe it to the world to promote this single TV movie out of all proportion to what any other network does for the 8 or 10 TV movies it produces year in and year out?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Only if they want people to find about it and watch it. If they want it to fail, and slide into oblivion, they should continue on their present course.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>

When and if Rangers becomes a series, Sci-Fi will promote it. They'll have a major stake in the show's success and every reason in the world to want people to watch it.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

So you're saying with the pilot movie for B5:LotR, Sci-Fi has no major stake in it's success, and really couldn't care less if people watch it??? Given how many millions of dollars the movie will cost to make, a few bucks for bumperstickers and decals should be pocket change.

Their "stake" is in the B5 universe, which currently is made up of B5, Crusade, and B5:LotR. They're all connected. They should be trying to bring new people (new subscribers) to the B5 universe, and hence their channel. You do this by advertising off your channel.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>

You're assumption that they won't advertise the show is groundless. They'll promote the TV movie for the same reason. But don't expect the advertising budget for The Others to be lavished on Rangers.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I suspect they won't advertise the pilot much, especially outside of a couple of short TV ads. on Sci-Fi, a few days before 01/02/2002, and it'll be lost among the "holiday" stuff that is on at that time of year.

------------------
KoshN
----------------
Vorlon Empire

"To Live and Die in Starlight"
pilot movie for the new series
"Babylon 5 - The Legend of the Rangers"
January 2, 2002 on The Sci-Fi Channel. http://www.scifi.com/b5rangers/

[This message has been edited by KoshN (edited September 08, 2001).]

gkarfan · Sep 8, 2001

I don't think it would hurt for the fans to help advertise Rangers. AntonyF, didn't you have something along those lines planned?

Tammy

------------------

"We're in here! Can anyone hear us?"
"I hear you." [giggle, laugh]
"In here!"
"We are here." [giggle, laugh]
-- Londo and G'Kar in Babylon 5:"Convictions"

Tammy's Station
http://community.webtv.net/gkarfan/TammysStation

KoshN · Sep 8, 2001

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>
Joe D. you're the man! I couldn't have said it better myself. It's a pleasure to read posts by someone like yourself who understands the business. This is why the actors come to B5LR.com.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>
Ah, another happy member of the Joe DM fan club. (Familiarly known as the "Earls" )

We should make up tee shirts... or maybe bumper stickers?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>
A fan club for Jody? Count me in!
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Watch it, he'll start believing his own press, and have to invest in a whole new set of hats. On other groups he's already been credited with posting info. that I actually provided.

------------------
KoshN
----------------
Vorlon Empire

"To Live and Die in Starlight"
pilot movie for the new series
"Babylon 5 - The Legend of the Rangers"
January 2, 2002 on The Sci-Fi Channel. http://www.scifi.com/b5rangers/

[This message has been edited by KoshN (edited September 08, 2001).]

**DONOTDELETE** · Sep 8, 2001

Unfortunately, I dont have the current time to go on like KoshN did, but I agree 100% with him. As I said in my other post, Joe has lost alot of respect I had for him, after such comments that Star Wars is a hit by chance, by a fluke, by "luck".

I cant go on until I get more time, but you people DO follow even Joe D with pathetic faith.

------------------
It has been my observation that if someone cannot say what they mean, they can truly never mean what they say.

drakh · Sep 8, 2001

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by KoshN:
Watch it, he'll start believing his own press, and have to invest in a whole new set of hats. On other groups he's already been credited with posting info. that I actually provided.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I feel your pain Kosh... The moment you post anything to moderated, the DeMartino will enter it into its vile Word files, and start repeating it every B5 forum it can find... Slowly usurping your position as resident know-it-all. Soon even the most backwater forum will worshiping him! We must stop it before it is too late!

Seriosly though, whenever the subject has come up, he's always been perfectly straight about the fact that he picks up a lot of the stuff from others, and that he just has a lot of free time at the moment.

(And we need only bide our time... because someday, he'll get a new job, and then the forums will be all ours! BAWAHAHAHAHAH!!

)

------------------
You are not entitled to your own opinion. You are only entitled to your own informed opinion.
-- Harlan Ellison qouting Gustave Flaubert

[This message has been edited by drakh (edited September 08, 2001).]

Joseph DeMartino · Sep 8, 2001

I’ve been debating whether to ignore all of this or reply. Since a few of the more recent posts seem to require a response, I may has well tackle some of the earlier ones as well:

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>You know, you're starting to become the master of snippage to support your own arguments, and in doing so, stepping on my last nerve.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Speaking of “snippage”, let’s look at your remarks in context:

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Babylon5 had all old, mature adults with great deep voices for yelling and talking seriousely. Will LR be good with a bunch of youngins? I loved B5 for that reason; no kids, no teens, all adults.

Same here! A bunch of young, virtually unknown actors as regulars? Seems kinda weak, but maybe they'll surprise us. -- emphasis added -- J.D.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

So, you agreed with a very negative statement about the young actors, then added a very half-hearted “maybe” they’ll “surprise” us. (“Surprise” indicating that your expectation is that they’ll be bad, since you’ll be surprised if they’re good.) I dealt with the main thrust of what you said, not the afterthought.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>When I first saw the B5 pilot, I knew Andreas from TNG, Next of Kin, and The Fugitive. … I knew Claudia from The Hidden, Bruce from Tron, Scarecrow, various westerns…<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

As with the basic cable question, you are using your own personal experience as the “measure of all things.” For most viewers most of the B5 cast –especially for the pilot and the first season – was virtually unknown. If you watched Dawson’s Creek or lived in Canada you would likely have seen most of the Rangers actors.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Oh, for crying out loud, there are people in this country (the U.S.A.) who could get the Sci-Fi channel, i.e. it is available to them but they don't subscribe to it at the moment. It is in their power to change that condition by subscribing to the channel.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

WARNING: Argument may have shifted in flight. On the moderated newsgroup you argued that the whole problem with the Sci-Fi Channel is that it wasn’t a “basic cable” channel (it is in many parts of the country), and that too many people who could get it didn’t because it cost too much. Now a couple of billboards are going to overcome this reluctance. OK. But are enough of those people going to change their minds to make a difference?

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Where did I say I know this? I suspect this.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

OK, I’ll rephrase the question. Instead of “And you know this, how?” let’s try, “And you suspect this, why?” I’m still waiting to see some kind of factual basis for your assumption that Sci-Fi is going to ignore the movie. (By the way, I notice that you’ve switched your target from Warner Bros. to Sci-Fi since you found out who is responsible for the advertising. Your whole previous case – a shaky one – was against Warner Bros. and based on their alleged “history” of not supporting the show. How did this “history” get transferred to Sci-Fi all of a sudden?)

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Alright, now it's my turn. How do you know that this isn't an effective way to promote TV shows? If it hasn't been done, how do you know that it won't work? You're assuming that because you've never seen them, that it's never been done and/or it never worked.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I’m playing the percentages here. I think the likelihood of your coming up with an effective marketing scheme that none of the professionals in the TV biz have hit on in the past 50 years is statistically small, just as the likelihood of my coming up with one is. I don’t think either of us knows enough about marketing in general or TV marketing in particular to pull that off.

As bakana noted, a certain amount of this stuff is done at conventions and the like, and all sorts of goodies like posters and coffee mugs are handed out to advertisers and others to promote shows. But a studio sending out bumper stickers to promote a TV movie? Doesn’t sound likely, and I can’t recall it being done. I suspect that someone would have tried it, or done a bit of market research to see if it is feasible, sometime between the advent of television and today, though.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>That was TNT. I'm talking about, Sci-Fi, NOW, not TNT in the past. There's no reason to suspect that Sci-Fi will do as TNT did.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

And no reason to suspect that they won’t, especially if Rangers becomes a series. They’ve certainly put a serious promotional effort behind Farscape and Lexx. And Sci-Fi isn’t doing anything now because the movie won’t air until next January.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>A smiley with a sarcastic remark, good one.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Glad you liked it. Look, the technique is called reductio ad absurdum – taking an argument to its logical (and absurd) conclusion. They always tend to sound a bit sarcastic. The smiley was there to indicate that I didn’t mean it maliciously. It was an invitation for you to laugh along with me when you saw where your argument was headed.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Why, immediately?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, according to your argument, there won’t any advertising until late December. So in your scenario these billboards are going to go up only a few days before the movie airs.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>If I see an ad., out in the real world (i.e. not on the tube), often I make a note of it, or just remember it (visually), and take care of it later. Sometimes, I put a reminder (with alarm) in my PDA (I do this with trailers I see at the movies, a lot.)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

See “measure of all things” above. You can’t assume that a large part of the potential audience shares your personal habits. And Sci-Fi certainly can’t make that assumption.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>"one shot TV movies"? Sounds like you're assuming it's going to fail.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No, I’m trying to see this from Sci-Fi’s point of view. Until they make a decision to go to series, a one-shot movie is all that Rangers is. If they really plan to wait until the ratings are in before making that decision, then they will advertise and promote as they would any other TV movie on their network.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Only if they want people to find about it and watch it. If they want it to fail, and slide into oblivion, they should continue on their present course. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

What “present course”? The one that you’re imagining, where they don’t do any advertising until December 30th? Their “present course” is that they aren’t advertising in September a TV movie that won’t air until January. You know what? Nobody else is advertising their January TV movies now either. And why would they want a TV movie that they’ve spent several million dollars on, from a producing team that they’ve been wanting to work with since 1998, to fail?

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>I've seen plenty of X-Files and Millenium promotion, off-network, in the past. e.g. billboards and bus-side ads.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

By “off-network” I meant, “on other TV channels.” If I’d meant “off-television”, I would have said so.

X-Files is a hit show on a broadcast network that reaches millions more homes than Sci-Fi even can since most people don’t need cable to watch it. They also have many times the advertising budget of Sci-Fi.

Millenium is a show that Fox had reason to hope would be hit, so it also made sense to advertise it heavily. B5 has never been a hit by any stretch of the imagination.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>So you're saying with the pilot movie for B5:LotR, Sci-Fi has no major stake in it's success, and really couldn't care less if people watch it???<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

NO, that’s not what I’m saying – as you know perfectly well because in the very next line, which you quote in your own message, I say that they will promote the TV movie for exactly the same reason. (Talk about selective “snippage”…)

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>I suspect they won't advertise the pilot much, especially outside of a couple of short TV ads. on Sci-Fi, a few days before 01/02/2002, and it'll be lost among the "holiday" stuff that is on at that time of year.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Again, based on what? Warner Bros.’s perceived “lack of support” for the show, now magically transferred to SFC? It certainly can’t be based on a look at the kind of promotion they’ve done for the other original TV movies and mini-series they’ve aired. Or on the initial airings of the B5 reruns, for that matter.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Watch it, he'll start believing his own press, and have to invest in a whole new set of hats.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thank you for your concern. Actually, I almost never wear hats.

Look, I’ve been out here for a long time. I’m recognizable because I use my real name on every site rather than a different nick everywhere, so I’m easy to remember. I make an effort to get my facts straight. When I’m proven wrong I acknowledge it. And I have people like Alyson to keep me honest.

People tend to put stock in what I say on factual matters because I have a track record. That is flattering, but it doesn’t make me over-estimate my importance in the grand scheme of things.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>On other groups he's already been credited with posting info. that I actually provided.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I’m not aware of this, but I hope you corrected whoever made the mistake. It was probably an innocent one. Anyway, I didn’t think this was a competitive game where we try to “scoop” each other.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>WarenGG wrote:
I cant go on until I get more time, but you people DO follow even Joe D with pathetic faith.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

They don’t have “pathetic faith” in me any more than they do in JMS. See the above comments on “track record.” I’ve been nailed plenty of times when I misremembered something or relied on a source that turned out to be untrustworthy – and rightly so. I’m happy to be corrected when this happens, because I don’t want to spread false information.

We disagree about Star Wars. So what? I’m not going to discount your opinion about other matters just because we don’t’ see eye-to-eye on that one. I don’t use single issues – especially in matters of taste – as a yardstick by which to measure people.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>G’Kar’s Eye wrote:
He's as entitled to be a dick sometimes … as the rest of us. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

LOL! Thank you!

Sorry about the length of this, but there was a lot of ground to cover. I think I'll let this go for now, because it really is becoming silly and the arguments are starting to repeat themselves. I'll certainly read any further posts, but I don't think I'll comment further something truly outrageous comes up.

Regards,

Joe

------------------
Joseph DeMartino
Sigh Corps
Pat Tallman Division
joseph-demartino@att.net

[This message has been edited by Joseph DeMartino (edited September 08, 2001).]

KoshN · Sep 8, 2001

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Technomage Roanna:
If you're going to insist on seeing praise for someone else as insults to you, you'd better invest in a large umbrella.

It's gonna be rainin' all the time...

Ro

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

???

The only thing I find insulting is being misquoted through snippage, and then be given ridiculous smart alec replies to my supposed posts.

It mildly irks me to have somebody else be thanked/praised/given credit for info. I provided, but I let it go in that group, figuring "What the hell, who cares?" It was only the fawning on this group that caused me to bring it up. My fuse may be long, but it's not infinitely long.

------------------
KoshN
----------------
Vorlon Empire

"To Live and Die in Starlight"
pilot movie for the new series
"Babylon 5 - The Legend of the Rangers"
January 2, 2002 on The Sci-Fi Channel. http://www.scifi.com/b5rangers/

[This message has been edited by KoshN (edited September 08, 2001).]

**DONOTDELETE** · Sep 8, 2001

"Are you seriously saying that young actors are incapable of deep performances? If so, what's your basis for saying that?

I presume you consider yourself capable of talking seriously. How old were you when that skill was acquired?"

Is that your question? Well, I DO think young actors are capable of deep performances. But they do NOT have experience. God what am I even doing? I never said they are bad or anything, I just said it was a little worry! Here you are twisting my words to say that young actors are a doomsday device. I am simply worried because no matter how much schooling they had on acting, they dont have experience, and I enjoyed the B5 universie with older adults. It is a change, and Im simply wondering and worrying if itll be good.

Also, to go into the age question is simply pathetic. Nothing beats playing a game or chatting in a forum and somebody goes, "How old are you? 12? 18?" I mean, can I even HELP it if I am young? What do you want me to say? Think I can snap my fingers and get older? You were the same age too, so dont think being older makes you better. It isnt an aquired skill, it is something that you simply have because you have been alive longer.

Joe D., granted, you are informed about the B5 sitation with ratings, credit and everything of the sort that connects to the show and advertisement, etc. But the self praise isnt a great thing.

------------------
It has been my observation that if someone cannot say what they mean, they can truly never mean what they say.

**DONOTDELETE** · Sep 8, 2001

To the first question I'd answer no - I'm not worried by the actors being young. In fact I believe that (with the exception of First Ones) characters of a certain age are best played by actors of the same age.

In addition I recall seeing various good performances by actors of various ages... and luckily can't establish a connection between the two.

---

As for the second question, yes I'm worried but only to a certain extent. Partly it's due to me living on the other side of the Atlantic - and thus having little influence over what happens to the movie/series during its original runs in the US.

I realize there's a chance of the wrong suits being in wrong places... but I also realize that they have an healthy amount of interest in getting it right. I understand that the Sci-Fi Channel is a good medium for Rangers. Thus I can only hope the best and do what little I can to influence the outcome.

------------------
Canned flarn is a sacrilege.

Joseph DeMartino · Sep 8, 2001

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>In fact I believe that ... characters of a certain age are best played by actors of the same age.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

What a stunningly sensible comment. Are you sure you're in the right thread?

I think part of the idea here is to do a show about characters who are younger, less experienced, less self-assured and watch them grow and change over the life of the series. (Potentially they could change much more than many of the B5 characters, their personalities already largely formed before the show began, ever did. In my experience men, especially, change a lot more between the ages of 25 and 30 than they do between 30 and 40 or even 30 and 50.)

Regards,

Joe

------------------
Joseph DeMartino
Sigh Corps
Pat Tallman Division
joseph-demartino@att.net

Chris Springob · Sep 9, 2001

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by sarah cantrell:
I for one have experienced many ups and downs during the last 26 years and have therefore much to draw from.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Whoa, one of the leading actors on this show is only two years older than I am. I must be getting old.

But what's really scary is the realization that Gillian Anderson was just one year older than me when The X-Files began. I was just a kid when that show started.

Anyway, people who claim that the Rangers cast is too young should remember that Gillian Anderson was only 25 during the first season of The X-Files, and I don't think that she was too young for a major role in an adult SF TV series.

------------------

Worries; young actors, no ads...

Super Moderator

Moderator

VIP

Regular

Regular

Super Moderator

Beyond the rim

Regular

Regular

Super Moderator

Beyond the rim

Super Moderator

**DONOTDELETE**

Guest

Regular

Moderator

Super Moderator

**DONOTDELETE**

Guest

**DONOTDELETE**

Guest

Moderator

Regular

Share this page

We value your privacy

DONOTDELETE

DONOTDELETE

DONOTDELETE