Am I the only one...

[GKarsEye]

... who doesn't really give a flying rat's ass about the CGI composition relative between the various aspect ratios? I'm just curious, because here and elsewhere it's all I see written about this.

Frankly, I don't even notice it. First of all, the CGI looks the same no matter what aspect ratio it is- corny. Sorry, folks, it's just very dated technology. This isn't a criticism of what they did at all- in fact, one should be impressed by what they accomplished given their budget and schedule. But the same can be said about Terminator, the original Star Wars, Tron, etc- they are great for their time. But one who is fed a steady diet of X-Men and Lord of the Rings can't help but view B5 as somewhat primitive.

Side note: the above is only talking about the effects. In terms of design, I still think B5 has some of the baddest shit ever. Narn cruisers are so cool, and Shadow ships are freakin' off the hook.

More importantly, B5 is about characters and plot and such. Whenever they show the ships and space, I just want them to get back to some dialogue. I hang on every word of a B5 ep with rapt attention, but often find myself poking around the fridge during a space battle. There are a few exceptions, like whenever Shadow ships slice up some chump with that laser knife dealy, or when Sheridan slams the Whitestar into Z'ha Dum.

Whitestars kick ass.

 

[Joseph DeMartino]

No, you're not. I posted something very similar on the Home Theater Forum. The fact is the B5 CGI didn't look all that great at the time. The S1 raider's ships (and explosions) were laughable, a step or two up from "Asteroids". They always had the cheesy "PC game" look to them, and were one of the reasons that people tended to dismiss the show as "the poor man's Star Trek". And this is an aspect of the show that can only look worse as time goes on. Luckily it isn't what the show was about.

I can still watch the old Buster Crabbe Flash Gordon and Buck Rogers serials with enjoyment, despite the cardboard ships with the sparklers at the back end. The giant ant puppets of Them and the obvious matte paintings of Forbidden Planet (not to mention the Disney-supplied monster) don't bother me in the least. If SFX were the be-all and end-all of science fiction an enormously popular show like Dr. Who would never have lasted past its first episode.

So I don't care about the cropped CGI, and I don't get my shorts in a knot over the sometimes clumsy attempts to deal with the composite shots. As with the CGI itself the decision to shoot for widescreen to help the show survive into the age of HDTV, and to bring something special and "flim like" to the eventual home video release, was a brave and innovative thing to do, and I appreciate the results, flaws and all. Besides, I'm usually paying too much attenetion to what the characters are saying to notice when a shot is slightly fuzzy or there is grain visible in a shot.

I'm with you 100% on this one.

But expect to see a few less supportive replies, rehashing the same old arguments all over again.

(David Chapple over at the moderated newsgroup has started a thread called "Bad Picture and Sound on Season 3 DVDs" to get a head start on the invitable complaints. One of the real CGI zealots has replied that he won't be complaining because he doesn't plan to buy S3 - because of the horrible SFX, you understand.)

Regards,

Joe

 

[RW7427]

I love the space battles. They are cool. Especially the ones with Whitestars involved.

 

[Cerberus]

I also with you 100%. The effects are cool, the Story is GREAT. I have never understood why people get so upset with the CGI, it looks o.k. or better to me, people just love to complain.


Cerberus

 

[Demon]

There are a few exceptions, like whenever Shadow ships slice up some chump with that laser knife dealy, or when Sheridan slams the Whitestar into Z'ha Dum.

I'm totally with you on the technical issues, but there is one CGI shot that always leaves a lump in my throat. During the battle for Earth, Clark turns the guns on Earth, and Sheridan orders the Agamemnon to ram. The sight of the Apollo coming to the rescue, and the Agamemnon emerging through the exploded remains of the gun platform, leaves me breathless every time. I can hardly help cheering

Whitestars kick ass.

I'm with Mac and Bo on this one. They always looked like plucked chickens to me

 

[Fas]

I don´t usually admit this, because it gives the impression im missing the entire point of the show, but as much as i love the story, the CGI, designs, and *look* of Babylon 5 are the main reasons i enjoy this universe, followed by the music and then the great epic story. I love looking at the futiristic designs, the particular look it has on the future.

as for my favourite CGI shot, hard to say, probably Minbar in flames for homeworld shots, and almost all of the battle for earth.

 

[Kribu]

Eh. The story was okay ... but the real reason I loved the show, and want the DVDs, is to see more of G'Kar in his informal attire.

Couldn't care less about the CGI and effects but the make-up people did a truly brilliant job with that chest piece.

 

[Fas]

oh, yeah. that too.

 

[Virgil_Tibbs]

I don't enjoy being negative about the show, but I have to admit the CGI and an irrational hate of it almost caused me to miss out completely on the series. I watched the pilot and then gave up on B5 for several years.

It was pure luck that one day I was flipping channels and stumbled on the episode Intersections in Real Time (not one with a lot of effects in it!). At first I wasn't even sure what show it was, as that was the first time I'd seen Sheridan and I'd missed the opening credits.

I of course had little idea what the heck was going on in the episode, but it was enough to pique my curiosity and eventually get me watching the show. Pretty quickly I got used to the effects and could concentrate on the finer points of B5.

Tibbs

 

[zantarous]

No I don't really care if the sfx are cropped or chopped or recoloured or if Han didn't shoot first... Oh sorry wrong movie.

B5 has always been about the story and the arc. However I have to state the quality of video is very poor on some episodes and saying that is not there is just sticking your head in the sand. And the thing that really infurates me is that in some sceans the picture looks sharp and breath taking just like dvd should, and the next its grainy as hell. I am sure it stills good on a small TV but watch it on something large 36" and up and the faults are apparent.

I am not complaining as I will by the sets no matter what as B5 is the best show ever to grace our screen and I would encourage others to as well.

 

[KoshN]

I love the space battles. They are cool. Especially the ones with Whitestars involved.

Like the ones in Thirdspace between the Whitestars and the Thirdspace fighters. Nice Thirdspace shield effects.

 

[MartinRoth]

... who doesn't really give a flying rat's ass about the CGI composition relative between the various aspect ratios?

Obviously, no, you're not.

And I agree with you on all counts. But then, I've always liked Blakes 7 and Doctor Who as well, so what do I know?

 

[HeinleinFan]

I concur with GKE.

Effects = Eye Candy
Storyline = Brain Food

 

[Jade Jaguar]

It doesn't bother me that we are losing a little off the top and or bottom of the CGI and composite scenes for wide screen, since the CGI was composed with that in mind from the beginning. I like wide screen, and think B5 looks better that way. Of course, I have a 46" TV, so that makes a difference too. And I think the effects on B5 are pretty decent for TV, usually better than Trek. Comparing them to big budget films is completely unfair. They never looked cheesy to me, but I loved Dr. Who, which had very cheesy effects, so by comparison, a whole nother ball park...

 

[GKarsEye]

I posted something very similar on the Home Theater Forum.

Yeah, I saw that shortly after posting this here.

As with the CGI itself the decision to shoot for widescreen to help the show survive into the age of HDTV, and to bring something special and "flim like" to the eventual home video release, was a brave and innovative thing to do, and I appreciate the results, flaws and all.

Hells yeah. I think too many people don't understand that a wider screen space isn't just for landscape shots and effects. It provides more space for characters, which can be used very effectively for dialogue and heavy acting bits. Whether it's showing more of the casino when Londo is trying to convince Garibaldi to have a drink (god I love that scene) or to put Ivanova's disclosure of her telepathy to Sheridan in a more striking visual context, the widescreen is sweet.

One of the real CGI zealots has replied that he won't be complaining because he doesn't plan to buy S3 - because of the horrible SFX, you understand.

Well, they're a bunch of geeks and not all coo like us. Yeah.

I'm totally with you on the technical issues, but there is one CGI shot that always leaves a lump in my throat. During the battle for Earth, Clark turns the guns on Earth, and Sheridan orders the Agamemnon to ram. The sight of the Apollo coming to the rescue, and the Agamemnon emerging through the exploded remains of the gun platform, leaves me breathless every time. I can hardly help cheering

Oh yeah, me too. But I think we both feel that way because of what that image means dramatically and conceptually, not because of what it physically looks like. That is, our enthusiasm is in the form of "Oh my God, that ship is going to sacrifice itself!" and not, "Wow, look at the spacial composition and realism of the ships relative to each other!"

don´t usually admit this, because it gives the impression im missing the entire point of the show, but as much as i love the story, the CGI, designs, and *look* of Babylon 5 are the main reasons i enjoy this universe, followed by the music and then the great epic story. I love looking at the futiristic designs, the particular look it has on the future.

That's cool. B5 offers so much that there will be different ways folks can get drawn into it. For example, I still can't get over how awesome the Cartagia subplot is, but some find it too "obvious" or violent. Lots of folks are bored by the Earth and/or Minbari civil war stories, and I think they're crazy. Meanwhile, I hate Grail while other fans love it.

Eh. The story was okay ... but the real reason I loved the show, and want the DVDs, is to see more of G'Kar in his informal attire.

You're weird. And that's quite a statement coming from me (let's just say that my NC-17 posts are just the tip of the iceberg.)

I don't enjoy being negative about the show, but I have to admit the CGI and an irrational hate of it almost caused me to miss out completely on the series. I watched the pilot and then gave up on B5 for several years.

That and Londo's hair (the actual hair, not the B5TV member) are probably the two most common reason people give for not getting into the show. One reluctant pal calls Londo "The Birdman." Son of a bitch watched the pilot, actually liked it, and refuses to watch more.

However I have to state the quality of video is very poor on some episodes and saying that is not there is just sticking your head in the sand.

I wasn't talking about video quality, as that's a judgement on the DVD product, not the composition. However, I still don't think it's nearly as bad as some make it out to be. But then again, I never considered myself an expert nor do I have the kind of equipment that would enable me to make a fully qualified judgement (32" regular TV). In fact, I have been asked to write reviews (yes, I can actually write coherently and intelligently when I bother to proofread and use a spell checker despite my awful ramblings on this board) but refused for this reason.

I think my position on this comes not only from being so thirlled at finally... FINALLY... getting B5 on DVD, but also at my feelings on non-literary Sci-Fi entertainment in general. The greatest FXs in film and TV are used in the worst stories and vice versa. The best looking Trek show, Enterprise, is the worst dramatically. The baddest CGI shit in the Stars Wars universe are used in the way lamer, recent films (to the point where the "magic" the original trilogy had for me in my life has been replaced with the desire to get this next one "over with").

While I appreciate FX as eye candy and from a technical POV (I am, after all, a programmer/engineer), I just seperate it from what really moves me. Like most, I can't wait to see the Matrix, but I'll probably bring a Gameboy to get me through the non-action parts.

 

[KoshN]

You know, I really hate stuff that starts out with "Am I the only one..."

One of the real CGI zealots has replied that he won't be complaining because he doesn't plan to buy S3 - because of the horrible SFX, you understand.

Well, they're a bunch of geeks and not all coo like us. Yeah.

You're here, so you're a geek, too.

While I appreciate FX as eye candy and from a technical POV (I am, after all, a programmer/engineer),

See? Pure geek.

I just seperate it from what really moves me. Like most, I can't wait to see the Matrix, but I'll probably bring a Gameboy to get me through the non-action parts.

Holy shit, you're a WORSE geek than I am!

 

[Recoil]

Ive always thought that the CGI looked better than average, even when watching it on a 27" TV on Sci-Fi Channel. I must admit though, I am extremely spoiled now watching it in DVD format on a 65" 16x9 TV. Live Action sequences with the actors even look better.

What is important though, is making sure all your shit works together and is set up correctly. Each component needs to be set up the right way to view DVDs in an ideal format. It took some tweaking when I first got the new TV to get DVD movies to "look" right.

 

[Cerberus]

What were some of the setting that you changed to get it to look better.

Thanks,

Cerberus

 

[Recoil]

I'm not talking about B5 in specific, but DVDs as a whole.

Making sure the DVD player is set up for a 16x9 TV.
Setting the DVD specific setting on the TV so that it is in standard format (not stretched)
TONS of color settings on my TV that are specific for digital pictures and DVD sources.

Took a while to get things to where they look right, and my settings for watching DVDs are different than for watching Satellite TV and for watching VCR tapes, etc...

 

[Cerberus]

Thanks

Cerberus