Anyone still watching Lost?

[vacantlook]

Wasn't that real short though?

3 seasons; 61 episodes total. According to what I've read, the two co-creators of the show began working on the story for the show in 2001. The first episode was shown on February 21, 2005; the last episode was shown on July 19, 2008.

Also I don't know if you can compare cartoons to live action. You don't have actors potentially leaving/quitting/dying and so forth.

Actually, you do have actor problems. The actor that did the voice of one of the main characters -- Mako who voiced Uncle Iroh -- died of cancer as they were finishing up season two of the show. They adjusted by hiring a different actor -- Greg Baldwin -- to replace him who had specifically studied Mako's voice for a previous role he had done. For me, it took a while to get used to Baldwin's voice, despite how similar he sounds to Mako.

 

[GKarsEye]

Wasn't that real short though?

3 seasons; 61 episodes total. According to what I've read, the two co-creators of the show began working on the story for the show in 2001. The first episode was shown on February 21, 2005; the last episode was shown on July 19, 2008.

Also I don't know if you can compare cartoons to live action. You don't have actors potentially leaving/quitting/dying and so forth.

Actually, you do have actor problems. The actor that did the voice of one of the main characters -- Mako who voiced Uncle Iroh -- died of cancer as they were finishing up season two of the show. They adjusted by hiring a different actor -- Greg Baldwin -- to replace him who had specifically studied Mako's voice for a previous role he had done. For me, it took a while to get used to Baldwin's voice, despite how similar he sounds to Mako.

Sucks about the cancer dude.

3 seasons is short... isn't it 100 hundred episodes before something can be syndicated? Certainly shorter than the other series we're talking about, and half as long as Lost. But that's good- I've become a real fan of "short."

But in any case, even if changing the voice of a character is jarring (reminds me of Family Guy's bit about "wrong sounding muppets" after Jim Henson died), it's still easier to deal with than changing the voice and look and mannerisms of a real person.

 

[Caffran]

Utterly completeley, thoroughly pissed off.

six years of my life wasted. i've a good mind to sue the bastards.

My own fault though. i knew when they 'moved the island' and the whole time travel bollox started, i knew then they didn't have a clue what the hell they were doing.

nothing relevant was explained, i'm inundated with questions as to what the hell it was all about.

i started rewatching the whole series in parallel with season six to try and see the clues from a new perspective. i got three episodes into season three when i watched the finale.

haven't watched an ep since. am now going to sell the dvd's on e-bay if anyones interested.

or use them as coasters.

so many questions....


1. what the hell IS the island? is it even an island?
2. what is the 'smoke monster'?
3. why were the dharma institute on the island?
4. how did they find it if no one can get there without jacob's invite?
5.who the hell were the others? where did they come from?
6.what the hell happened when the nuke exploded? or did it?
7. if not, why was the island sunk?
8. who built the statue and why? was it egyptian?
9. what lies in the shadow of the statue?
10.who built the temple and why? how did the people get there? they weren't the others so who the hell are they?
11. who the hell was desmond and why is he so important?
12. why was penny in the 'afterlife/purgatory/sideflash thing when to my knowledge she never ever set one foot on the island?

that's just of the top of my head sitting here now. i refuse to actually think of more because they robbed me of enough of my time already.


if any of you happen to have the answers to the above questions by all means post.

please. anyone....?

 

[GKarsEye]

All of your questions except #8 were answered on the show.

 

[vacantlook]

1. what the hell IS the island? is it even an island?
2. what is the 'smoke monster'?
3. why were the dharma institute on the island?
4. how did they find it if no one can get there without jacob's invite?
5.who the hell were the others? where did they come from?
6.what the hell happened when the nuke exploded? or did it?
7. if not, why was the island sunk?
8. who built the statue and why? was it egyptian?
9. what lies in the shadow of the statue?
10.who built the temple and why? how did the people get there? they weren't the others so who the hell are they?
11. who the hell was desmond and why is he so important?
12. why was penny in the 'afterlife/purgatory/sideflash thing when to my knowledge she never ever set one foot on the island?

To the best of my ability to answer/understand based on what I've read.

1. It's a big, unexplained, "mysterious" island that has no actual explanation beyond being the location of some "mysterious" "electromagnetic energy." And that's rather stupid to me. If they wanted some unexplainable mysterious energy, they should've invented some. To call it electromagnetic is to define at as something very real and understandable because we, the body humanity, know you aren't getting time travel and miracle healing out of electromagnetism.

2. It's what's left over from taking a bath in the unexplained "mysterious" bathtub.

3. To study the "mysterious" electromagnetism of the island.

4. I assume someone was invited?

5. Weren't "the Others" Jacob's people? Or were they former Jacob's people who had switched to team Black?

6. The nuke exploded. It stopped the time travelling, I think.

7. The island never actually sunk. The sideways world in which it had sunk and thus the plane never crashed didn't actually happen. All that was a purgatory experience that all the Losties got to live through prior to moving on together to their afterlife.

8. The statue was just yet more "mystery." It's one of many things that gets referenced throughout the show that ultimately meant nothing and was never intended to mean anything. It was just there for flavor and color, and thus was stupid considering that they acted like it had something resembling significance. It didn't. It was completely unimportant.

9. 10. I have no idea.

11. He was apparently unaffected by the "mysterious" electromagnetism of the island because he had been so close to the "electromagnetic explosion" inside the hatch when he turned that emergency key back in season two I think it was.

12. I guess because the whole purgatory thing was supposed to be for those who were connected to pass over together, and she was connected to Desmond, and he was connected to the Losties. If he hadn't been there, she wouldn't have either, I guess.

 

[Sindatur]

Jacob himself was what lied in the shadow of the Shadows.

Yes, a Dharmite was invited to the island.

The others were just other possible candidates and those who got stuck along for the ride. And yes, they were Jacob's people, but, Smokey manipulated them into doing his bidding without tehir knowledge

 

[Caffran]

1. exactly. while electromagnetic energy could knock a plane out of the sky (emp burst) ,as you said it can't initiate time travel, it can't move a volcanic island, and it certainly can't allow desmond to 'see' the future.

as an additional question, if jacob wnated 815 to crash he must have somehow influenced desmond to follow the other guy out on that particular day at that particular time so the energy was released.....bit convenient don't you think?

2.you mean the holy light in the waterfall thing yeah? something else never explained.

3.yes but how did they KNOW about the island if it's just a fantasy/ purgatory place?

4.so they were all dead too yes?

5.but WHERE did they come from? what was the point of the whole 'game' they were playing? jsut two kids having a bit of fun, what?

6.if it exploded why was the island still there? why were'nt jack etc. vaporised?

7.so the whole 'sideways'flash was just a waste of time? a way to bring back the characters who've died because it's the last series? bastards.

8. so why did it have four toes?

9.has nobody translated the spanish?

10.:scream:

11.yes, and turning the key allowed him to 'see the future'. humans are already immune to electromagnetism so.....

12.okay. maybe i can buy that answer. not satisfying but at least it's an answer.


thanks vacantlook, you've answered one for me, which is more than the finale did.


G'karseye, please tell me where it's answered. seriously, no taking the piss. please tell me where the answers are, or tell me yourself 'cuase i am 'lost' no pun intended.

 

[Sindatur]

1. exactly. while electromagnetic energy could knock a plane out of the sky (emp burst) ,as you said it can't initiate time travel, it can't move a volcanic island, and it certainly can't allow desmond to 'see' the future.

3.yes but how did they KNOW about the island if it's just a fantasy/ purgatory place?

4.so they were all dead too yes?

You misunderstood the Finale. Everything that happened on the island, actually happened. The Fantasy/Purgatory thingy was the Alternate Sideways Reality.

5.but WHERE did they come from? what was the point of the whole 'game' they were playing? jsut two kids having a bit of fun, what?

Jealousy on MIB's part until Jacob killed him by turning him into the Smoke Monster, and then Revenge against his Jailer. jacob was MiB's Jailer.

 

[vacantlook]

3.yes but how did they KNOW about the island if it's just a fantasy/ purgatory place?

The island wasn't purgatory. The island was real. Purgatory was whatever anyone experienced in the flash-sideways. Whatever anyone in the sideways flashes experienced was something they experienced after they had died in the real world but prior to moving on to the afterlife.

5.but WHERE did they come from? what was the point of the whole 'game' they were playing? jsut two kids having a bit of fun, what?

Jacob and Black crashed on the island and were raised by a "mysterious" woman. Who she was wasn't explained. She's just "mysterious." If I understand it correctly, once Black took a bath in the magic bathtub, he turned into the magic black cloud. He wanted off the island, but being a magic black cloud, as long as Jacob remained alive, Black couldn't leave. The "mysterious" rules of conduct prevented him from killing Jacob, so he had to find someone else to kill him for him.

6.if it exploded why was the island still there? why were'nt jack etc. vaporised?

Becuase the "mysterious" "electromagnetic energy" magically kept it from destroying everything, I guess.

8. so why did it have four toes?

Because it's "mysterious."

11.yes, and turning the key allowed him to 'see the future'. humans are already immune to electromagnetism so.....

But this is "mysterious" "electromagnetism." It doesn't matter what actual, real electromagnetism is. Essentially what gets called electromagnetism in the show is really miscellaneous magic energy, but the writers decided to slap the word "electromagnetism" on it in order to pretend it was all sciencey and not so fantasy-ish like magic is.

 

[vacantlook]

You know, thinking about the magical "electromagnetism," they would've been better off if they had instead just labeled their magic energy "dark energy." After all, "dark energy" is a cipher used in science that pretty much means nothing other than the universe has been observed to be expanding an an accelerating rate and we have no idea why. We don't know a damn thing about "dark energy," even to the point of whether or not it actually exists; it's just a place holder until we can figure out what's actually going on. They could have had all the sciencey goodness and not looked stupid for labelling their magic energy "electromagnetism."

 

[Caffran]

so the whole thing was just dungeons and dragons?

anything wierd happens.......a wizard did it.

the island was real.:wtf:

so it REALLY could move? it REALLY could travel in time?

that makes no sense whatsoever.

we're talking alice in wonderland then? but it wasn't a dream?

thanks guys, i'm even more pissed off now. before i was annoyed because i thought i didn't understand it.

now i see i actually did understand it all along.


it was a load of bollox they just made up as they went along :scream:

six years.

six fucking years!!!

 

[Sindatur]

Oh, and the 4 toed statue had four toes, because it's a statue of Tawaret, who had 4 toes.

Tawaret was both a Guardian of Children and had something to do with guarding against evil, or holding evil in or something like that. Wikipedia her, there should be lots of info on her.

 

[Sindatur]

so the whole thing was just dungeons and dragons?

anything wierd happens.......a wizard did it.

the island was real.:wtf:

so it REALLY could move? it REALLY could travel in time?

that makes no sense whatsoever.

we're talking alice in wonderland then? but it wasn't a dream?

thanks guys, i'm even more pissed off now. before i was annoyed because i thought i didn't understand it.

now i see i actually did understand it all along.


it was a load of bollox they just made up as they went along :scream:

six years.

six fucking years!!!

Yes, it was all a big game of Backgammon, as they showed us early in S1.

 

[GKarsEye]

The force of the island was not simply "electromagnetic energy." That is what the Dharma initiative said they they detected, and intense readings of energy is a symptom of the unique properties of the island. It was these weird phenomena that Dharma was studying, and they were drilling at a spot that was giving off intense readings.

To call the light/force/whatever "electromagnetic energy" is incorrect. I have no problems making fun of a TV show but at least make fun of what was actually in the show.

No, we don't ever learn the origins of the powerful island force and who the first people were and how the chain of events started, that much is true. That's fine if that bothers you, but am I gonna learn where the first vampire/demon ever came from on Buffy? Did we learn were the Vorlons/Shadows/Lorien first came from on B5, or de we just accept that they exist? You can take any story back through time indefinitely until you get to the Big Bang.

 

[vacantlook]

...but am I gonna learn where the first vampire/demon ever came from on Buffy?

Actually in the second episode of the first season ("The Harvest"), Giles explains how the first vampire came into existence. Earth used to be controlled by demons. As humanity spread, the demons decided to leave this dimension and travel on to others. The last demon to leave fed on a human before going, and as the human died, demon blood got into the dying human's body, and it became a vampire. From there, vampirism spread as that vampire fed on other humans and and mixed its blood with theirs as they died, thus turning them into vampires too.

But then, the Buffy universe very openly includes magic, so it's fine. They don't attempt to label their magic as science the way Lost did with it's magic island energy. If there had been some form of explanation of the island energy or very specific limitations put on the energy, maybe it could work being cloaked in "science." But really, the island energy was was just too miscellaneous to be called anything other than magic.

 

[vacantlook]

Ok, so now you've gone and gotten me to looking shit up on the Lost wiki.

So first, I looked up electromagnetism. Which linked to The Heart of the Island aka "the Source," which says...

The Heart of the Island, also known as the Source, is the electromagnetic core of the Island. The energy radiates out from here to other parts of the island, notably in a much smaller quantities than those that exist at its source. The electromagnetism exists at the Heart in its strongest form, one that, if tampered with, had the potential to destroy the Island, and quite possibly, the entire world.

But then, there's also this.

Mother thought the Heart of the Island to be a physical manifestation of "life, death, [and] rebirth". Humans supposedly covet the Heart because a portion of the light is inside every living thing —"but they always want more". According to Mother, while humans are incapable of taking the light, their attempts to do so could "put it out. And if the light goes out here... it goes out everywhere."

The latter reads as magic, which would be fine if the show hadn't presented everything as being sciencey up until it gets around to "explaining" the "mystery" and it ends up there's no real explanation.

The nature and purpose of the island:

According to Jacob, the island acts as a cork, holding back malevolence that would destroy the world if released. When the Man in Black made contact with the site of this suppression, the Heart of the Island, he transformed into a smoke monster that plagued the island for thousands of years. A protector guards the Heart of the Island, the source of life, death and rebirth. Despite the Heart, or possibly because of it, not all who die on the island move on - some remain, whispering. Others apparitions of unknown origin also appear, often confronting people with images from their past.

The Heart of the Island manifests itself as electromagnetism concentrated in specific sites. The Man in Black's people dug wells at these sites, and the Dharma Initiative built stations, including the Orchid, which manipulated time, and the Swan. Since at least 1977, when scientists penetrated an electromagnetic pocket, this energy has healed sickness, including cancer, paralysis, brain damage and male infertility. The immunity boost though causes pregnant women to reject their embryos in the second trimester, killing both the mother and the fetus. The electromagnetism also affects navigation, hiding the island from the outside world, drawing back those who leave the island, moving the island and even transporting travelers through time.

So, it's "life and death and rebirth" "manifest[ing] itself as electromagnetism"? Again, if they had been going around talking about magic all over the place, sure, why not. But they went on for years about how the mystery was sciencey. But it wasn't; it was magic.

 

[Chilli]

Utterly completeley, thoroughly pissed off.

six years of my life wasted. i've a good mind to sue the bastards.

My own fault though. i knew when they 'moved the island' and the whole time travel bollox started, i knew then they didn't have a clue what the hell they were doing.

nothing relevant was explained, i'm inundated with questions as to what the hell it was all about.

i started rewatching the whole series in parallel with season six to try and see the clues from a new perspective. i got three episodes into season three when i watched the finale.

haven't watched an ep since. am now going to sell the dvd's on e-bay if anyones interested.

or use them as coasters.

so many questions....


1. what the hell IS the island? is it even an island?
2. what is the 'smoke monster'?
3. why were the dharma institute on the island?
4. how did they find it if no one can get there without jacob's invite?
5.who the hell were the others? where did they come from?
6.what the hell happened when the nuke exploded? or did it?
7. if not, why was the island sunk?
8. who built the statue and why? was it egyptian?
9. what lies in the shadow of the statue?
10.who built the temple and why? how did the people get there? they weren't the others so who the hell are they?
11. who the hell was desmond and why is he so important?
12. why was penny in the 'afterlife/purgatory/sideflash thing when to my knowledge she never ever set one foot on the island?

that's just of the top of my head sitting here now. i refuse to actually think of more because they robbed me of enough of my time already.


if any of you happen to have the answers to the above questions by all means post.

please. anyone....?

Please tell us that you know
It's just a TV show
Please say that you can see
That really isn't me

Please tell us that you know
It's just a TV show
It's just a TV show

It's just a job we do
We love and hate it too
We crawl out of our beds
Yeah with lines inside our heads

Please, please, tell us you can see
It's not real, it's TV
It's just a TV show

Yeah, that's make-up on my face
I don't really come from outer space
Don't be alarmed now that's not a laser gun
You can change the channel if you don't think it is fun

We sit around and wait
We get home really late
We learn our lines, we hit our marks
We deal with lawyers who are sharks
We stumble home, we wash our socks
Have to clean the litterbox
It's just a TV show

It's not a real robot and that is not my dress
Don't get mad at me, I didn't cause an intergalactic mess
I'm no military commander, see the future isn't here
After working 14 hours we go out and drink some beer
It's just a TV show

Please tell us that you know
It's just a TV show
It's just a job we do
Yeah yeah yeah yeah, we watch it too

Please tell us that you know
It's just a TV show
It's just a TV show

Look, I also found it pretty lame how they built a show built on mysteries and riddles, and had none of the answers .. but don't you think you're being a bit .. dramatic? You didn't lose 6 years by watching Lost. You spent one hour a week, less than half the year, watching the show, and must have gotten *some* enjoyment out of it, or you wouldn't have watched it to the end.

 

[GKarsEye]

But where did the Buffy demons come from in the first place? See all I'm saying is that you can do that with any fictional construct.

Ever since the introduction of Jacob as island protector I've accepted the idea of the island's power being magical- in a dramatic sense if not "literal," like that famous Arthur C Clarke quote.

In fact my one complaint about it is that I never got a sense of dread about what would have happened if Jacob and his followers failed. Sure they said "it would be the end of everything" or something like that but how? Why?

 

[vacantlook]

But where did the Buffy demons come from in the first place? See all I'm saying is that you can do that with any fictional construct.

Not when the search and eventual answering of that question is presented as being the point of the story. In Lost, we were given a big mysterious island. We kept being told that the island was some big thing of importance. Everything the characters did was moving toward discovering the purpose of the island. And all along the way, it was look at this sciency thing over here, and check out that real world reference to archeological history over there, and in the end, the solution to the question of what is the island is that it's some magical cork in the bottleneck of life and death. It's just too miscellaneous.

The story of Buffy isn't about where demons come from. The story is about people growing up and coming into their own place in the world. The demons are color and flavor added for fun, but not the point. The mystery of the island was presented as the point of Lost.

Ever since the introduction of Jacob as island protector I've accepted the idea of the island's power being magical- in a dramatic sense if not "literal," like that famous Arthur C Clarke quote.

I gave up on the show after we got seasons and seasons of sciencey this and sciencey that, and then it turned out the activation method of moving the island and causing time travel was a wooden wheel somehow embedded in glowing light. It really jumped the shark for me at that point.

For me, a good story is one that points me toward thinking about things on a grander scale. Babylon 5 did this, for example, by making me think about how we as individuals making up a society work (and fail to work) together. Ivanova's big ending monologue summed it up fine: we have to make the future and we have to take care of one another. I think that's why Battlestar Galactica and Lost disappointed me so much. Their stories had plenty of emotion, but so little substance.

What is the greater revelation of Lost? What came out of all their efforts? Life gets to continue on because a pool of illuminated water didn't drain out? It just feels so empty to me. In a way, the big mysterious energy of the island is the collected substance of everyone's soul, but to me it just kinda feels like the story itself has no soul. It's just relatively unimportant, interchangable characters running around from point-A to point-B doing this and that unimportant plot action. Why? Intitially, it was to get off the island, but the longer they were on the island, the more they kept being told that the island had to be protected? From what? From magical black cloud that lived on the island ripping up trees and pretending to be dead people. And why must the island be protected? Because if water drains out of a pool, all life will cease. Again, I just keep coming back to the word: miscellaneous. The ultimate resolution seems just so miscellaneous and whateverish.

I am glad you enjoyed it though; I really do envy that.

 

[GKarsEye]

Everything the characters did was moving toward discovering the purpose of the island.

Nuh-uh. Motivations of the characters, for the most part:

1. Don't get killed.
2. Get off the island (and for a brief period, get back to the island)
3. Protect the island

Other than that, yeah, I have no problem with calling it miscellaneous. Again, I think this comes down to expectations. No, of course Lost doesn't make me think about anything on a grander scale. There are only 3 serial TV shows I've ever seen that make me do that:

1. Star Trek
2. Babylon 5
3. The Wire

And that is why those represent the Pinnacle of All Television That Can Never Be Reached Again. The Pantheon of TV. Coming to terms with how truly special and amazing those 3 shows were allows me to enjoy nonsense like Lost, Battlestar and now Buffy.

(Breaking Bad is occupying some weird second tier at this point- it's way better than Lost, BSG or Buffy (so far) but it doesn't make me ponder the universe or society like the Pantheon)