Mindwalker
Regular
Re: Actual B5:TLT News
I'm buying 2 copies then...
I'm buying 2 copies then...
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B5:TLT Actual DISCUSSION Thread
- Thread starter Jan
- Start date
Joseph DeMartino
Moderator
Re: Actual B5:TLT News
There, you see? This TLT thing is obviously going nowhere. JMS has fooled us all again and I, for one, am getting tired of it!
Joe
There, you see? This TLT thing is obviously going nowhere. JMS has fooled us all again and I, for one, am getting tired of it!
Joe
Joseph DeMartino
Moderator
Re: Actual B5:TLT News
As noted by others, there is going to be one disc with three stories on it, readily convertable to a "two hour" TV movie if a network or cable channel is interested. And WB hasn't just handed over a big bag of money to JMS and said "go to it". Expenses are being paid by the studio week by week as they are incurred.
Hard to say, actually. WB probably has a pretty good (conservative) esitmate of how many TLT sets it is likely to sell, based on what is now a very extensive set of numbers from the original movie disc, B5, the movie set, Crusade and the Rangers pilot. If they can control costs, they may be confident that there is no way they can lose money on this project, and they may go right into the second batch of tales and continue on from there without waiting for sales figures or a TV deal for the first disc.
I see you're still using the Big Book of Made-up Statistics as a reference for your posts.
1) Warner Bros. cannot arbitrarily "decide to treat" a given project as a theatrical relase, DVD original or etc. Union contracts treat different types of releases differently. And you can't "treat" a DVD produced for DVD "as a film" if it has never been releaed theatrically because the consumer isn't going to treat it that way.
2) The DVD is presumably being procduced by/for the new Direct-To-DVD division of Warner Home Video. So there is really only one "part of Warner Bros." that JMS has to deal with.
3) "...they will want sales to be 10 times the production and marketing costs." I assume you got this out of some (not terribly accurate) article about either theatrical releases and ticket sale, or releases of theatrical movies on DVD. Either way it doesn't apply, and nobody use such an arbitrary formula for calculating much of anything. (The old "rule of thumb" for theatrical films is that domestic gross ticket sales had to equal 3 to 4 times production cost - exclusive of prints, advertising and promoiton - for a film to break even . That was before international sales were as big a factor as they are now and before home video. So obvisouly "10 times production costs" is way too high an amount to demand for going forward with a project Nobody would make a film if they had to be assured of $10 in gross sales for every dollar spent in producing and selling a film.)
For a DVD release of a theatrical film there are no "production costs" because the film itself has already been produced and been paid for (one hopes) by worldwide threatrical ticket sales. A DVD release need only make back its own masting and extras production costs, plus enough to cover residuals.
For a direct to DVD project the actual content production costs obviously have to be factored in. But since, by definition a direct to DVD project is not a theatrical film and can't be "treate" like a theatrical film, your "10 times cost" figure can't even be considered an estimate since it isn't in any way based in reality.
Regards,
Joe
As noted by others, there is going to be one disc with three stories on it, readily convertable to a "two hour" TV movie if a network or cable channel is interested. And WB hasn't just handed over a big bag of money to JMS and said "go to it". Expenses are being paid by the studio week by week as they are incurred.
Hard to say, actually. WB probably has a pretty good (conservative) esitmate of how many TLT sets it is likely to sell, based on what is now a very extensive set of numbers from the original movie disc, B5, the movie set, Crusade and the Rangers pilot. If they can control costs, they may be confident that there is no way they can lose money on this project, and they may go right into the second batch of tales and continue on from there without waiting for sales figures or a TV deal for the first disc.
I see you're still using the Big Book of Made-up Statistics as a reference for your posts.
1) Warner Bros. cannot arbitrarily "decide to treat" a given project as a theatrical relase, DVD original or etc. Union contracts treat different types of releases differently. And you can't "treat" a DVD produced for DVD "as a film" if it has never been releaed theatrically because the consumer isn't going to treat it that way.
2) The DVD is presumably being procduced by/for the new Direct-To-DVD division of Warner Home Video. So there is really only one "part of Warner Bros." that JMS has to deal with.
3) "...they will want sales to be 10 times the production and marketing costs." I assume you got this out of some (not terribly accurate) article about either theatrical releases and ticket sale, or releases of theatrical movies on DVD. Either way it doesn't apply, and nobody use such an arbitrary formula for calculating much of anything. (The old "rule of thumb" for theatrical films is that domestic gross ticket sales had to equal 3 to 4 times production cost - exclusive of prints, advertising and promoiton - for a film to break even . That was before international sales were as big a factor as they are now and before home video. So obvisouly "10 times production costs" is way too high an amount to demand for going forward with a project Nobody would make a film if they had to be assured of $10 in gross sales for every dollar spent in producing and selling a film.)
For a DVD release of a theatrical film there are no "production costs" because the film itself has already been produced and been paid for (one hopes) by worldwide threatrical ticket sales. A DVD release need only make back its own masting and extras production costs, plus enough to cover residuals.
For a direct to DVD project the actual content production costs obviously have to be factored in. But since, by definition a direct to DVD project is not a theatrical film and can't be "treate" like a theatrical film, your "10 times cost" figure can't even be considered an estimate since it isn't in any way based in reality.
Regards,
Joe
Shaal Mayan
Regular
Re: Actual B5:TLT News
Really ???? I always thought the same thing
Really ???? I always thought the same thing
Lousy_Dodgers
Regular
Re: Actual B5:TLT News
I am hoping that even the pre-orders will be enough to convince WB to make more. I know I will likely place my order as soon as I see it listed on Amazon, even if I have to wait a few weeks for it to ship. Although I fear WB will cancel the project at the last minute and try to keep my money
I am hoping that even the pre-orders will be enough to convince WB to make more. I know I will likely place my order as soon as I see it listed on Amazon, even if I have to wait a few weeks for it to ship. Although I fear WB will cancel the project at the last minute and try to keep my money
Lousy_Dodgers
Regular
Re: Actual B5:TLT News
Well, they tend to do pre-orders for books and other DVDs so I would think they would do it for this as well. I think it is too early for that though...maybe we will see something on the site early in 2007. Have there been any updates on when we could expect to see these appear?
Well, they would have one reason to cancel it at that point in time: it would irritate me.
Well, they tend to do pre-orders for books and other DVDs so I would think they would do it for this as well. I think it is too early for that though...maybe we will see something on the site early in 2007. Have there been any updates on when we could expect to see these appear?
Well, they would have one reason to cancel it at that point in time: it would irritate me.
Joseph DeMartino
Moderator
Re: Actual B5:TLT News
Yeah, Amazon doesn't offer items for pre-order until the publisher/manufacturer notifies them that the item is in the production process and that a release date (and earliest pre-order date) has been set. And they don't charge your credit card until they actually ship the item. (And Warner Bros. doesn't get your money. Amazon pays them a wholesale price when they order a title in bulk, then they collect from you and keep all of your money when VISA or Mastercard sends them a check at the end of the month.)
Just a guess here, but I'd say it would probably some time after they start shooting. Right now the paint probably isn't dry in the production offices.
JMS has indicated 2nd quarter 2007 for a release, and pre-orders typically appear a couple of months ahead of the release date.
Yeah. By the time a pre-order is up the show is shot and all the expensive post-production CGI is done and the thing's been mastered. At that point WB has spent all the money they're going to spend on the project except for replicating and distributing the DVDs and the only way in the world they'll ever make that money back is by selling the DVDs. Let's have a show of hands, please - How many people think they're going to cancel the relase just to piss you off?
There is a difference betwen trying to not go overboard in enthusiasm for a new project and paranoid, hysterical fantasy and conspiracy theories. It doesn't take a profound knowledge of the DVD business to know that some of this stuff is ridiculous. It just takes a little common sense and some critical thinking to avoid posting nonsense like some of the things that have showed up in some of these threads lately.
C'mon guys. Deep breaths. Decaf. Maybe yoga.
Regards,
Joe
Yeah, Amazon doesn't offer items for pre-order until the publisher/manufacturer notifies them that the item is in the production process and that a release date (and earliest pre-order date) has been set. And they don't charge your credit card until they actually ship the item. (And Warner Bros. doesn't get your money. Amazon pays them a wholesale price when they order a title in bulk, then they collect from you and keep all of your money when VISA or Mastercard sends them a check at the end of the month.
) Just a guess here, but I'd say it would probably some time after they start shooting. Right now the paint probably isn't dry in the production offices.
JMS has indicated 2nd quarter 2007 for a release, and pre-orders typically appear a couple of months ahead of the release date.
Yeah. By the time a pre-order is up the show is shot and all the expensive post-production CGI is done and the thing's been mastered. At that point WB has spent all the money they're going to spend on the project except for replicating and distributing the DVDs and the only way in the world they'll ever make that money back is by selling the DVDs. Let's have a show of hands, please - How many people think they're going to cancel the relase just to piss you off?
There is a difference betwen trying to not go overboard in enthusiasm for a new project and paranoid, hysterical fantasy and conspiracy theories. It doesn't take a profound knowledge of the DVD business to know that some of this stuff is ridiculous. It just takes a little common sense and some critical thinking to avoid posting nonsense like some of the things that have showed up in some of these threads lately.
C'mon guys. Deep breaths. Decaf. Maybe yoga.
Regards,
Joe
Mindwalker
Regular
Re: Actual B5:TLT News
JMS could always go on a bender and defacate on the CEO of WB desk...
JMS could always go on a bender and defacate on the CEO of WB desk...
A_M_Swallow
Regular
Re: Actual B5:TLT News
DO NOT BE SILLY.
Of course it is a "film", films and tv programs are the only things that the production bureaucracy understands. Everything new has to be fitted into one of those two categories. It will be a few years before Direct-to-DVD is allowed to be a category in its own right.
The sales to a tv station may allow it to be passed off as a Movie of the Week but that hybrid is just a big tv program.
The advantage of a tv program is that the broadcaster is paying so Warner Brothers does not have to worry about losing the money, only any over spend. Consequently the sales required to make a profit are much lower.
The 4 times production cost to break even applies to films so the bureaucracy will expect to apply it to Direct-to-DVD projects paid for by Warner Brothers. A break even may be sufficient for the theatre film parts of Warner Brothers but being new the Direct-to-DVD needs to make a lot more money than that.
Studios use the profits from their hits to cross subsidise their losses and pay for new movies. Until it has a hit the Direct-to-DVD division of Warner Brothers does not have any money of its own. The Division can be killed by the holding company simply not lending it any more money.
With sales at 4 times production costs the B5:TLT movie(s) can repay the borrowed money, at 8 times the Direct-to-DVD Division can finance the sequels itself and at 10 times the company makes a profit.
Andrew Swallow
DO NOT BE SILLY.
Of course it is a "film", films and tv programs are the only things that the production bureaucracy understands. Everything new has to be fitted into one of those two categories. It will be a few years before Direct-to-DVD is allowed to be a category in its own right.
The sales to a tv station may allow it to be passed off as a Movie of the Week but that hybrid is just a big tv program.
The advantage of a tv program is that the broadcaster is paying so Warner Brothers does not have to worry about losing the money, only any over spend. Consequently the sales required to make a profit are much lower.
The 4 times production cost to break even applies to films so the bureaucracy will expect to apply it to Direct-to-DVD projects paid for by Warner Brothers. A break even may be sufficient for the theatre film parts of Warner Brothers but being new the Direct-to-DVD needs to make a lot more money than that.
Studios use the profits from their hits to cross subsidise their losses and pay for new movies. Until it has a hit the Direct-to-DVD division of Warner Brothers does not have any money of its own. The Division can be killed by the holding company simply not lending it any more money.
With sales at 4 times production costs the B5:TLT movie(s) can repay the borrowed money, at 8 times the Direct-to-DVD Division can finance the sequels itself and at 10 times the company makes a profit.
Andrew Swallow
Lousy_Dodgers
Regular
Re: Actual B5:TLT News
Yeah, I know it is not rational to think they would cancel it after I pre-ordered it but I wanted to be silly. It is the weekend and I am trying to amuse myself by thinking of ways the universe could have fun at my expense...again
Yeah, I know it is not rational to think they would cancel it after I pre-ordered it but I wanted to be silly. It is the weekend and I am trying to amuse myself by thinking of ways the universe could have fun at my expense...again
Joseph DeMartino
Moderator
Re: Actual B5:TLT News
Pot, meet kettle. Kettle, meet pot.
Look Andrew, if you don't understand anything about the American film and television industry just say so. Don't post long winded proofs that you don't.
You have put the Big Book of Made-up Statistics aside and are now simply pulling stuff out of your ass. Please cite one speicific source (other than your own imagination and "vast experience" in British - non-film and TV - business) for any of your statements in the preceding posts. Variety or Hollywood Reporter articles, books, anything.
I'll cite a few things for my understanding of how films and TV work:
The Making of Star Trek by Steven E. Whitfield and Gene Roddenberry - Excellent primer on TV production and financing in the early to mid 1960s.
Gene Roddenberry - pirvate conversation, NY Star Trek Convention 1975
Final Cut : Art, Money, and Ego in the Making of Heaven's Gate, the Film That Sank United Artists by Steven Bach
The Biz: The Basic Business, Legal, and Financial Aspects of the Film Industry
by Schuyler M. Moore
Several histories of the major film studios.
Former TNT executive, private correspondance and conversations, 1998 to 2001
One year gift subscription to Daily Variety.
The Complete Book of Screenwriting by J. Michael Straczysnki
Private e-mail correspondence with executive producer of a highly-rated sitcom currently airing on the ABC television network.
Regards,
Joe
Pot, meet kettle. Kettle, meet pot.
Look Andrew, if you don't understand anything about the American film and television industry just say so. Don't post long winded proofs that you don't.
You have put the Big Book of Made-up Statistics aside and are now simply pulling stuff out of your ass. Please cite one speicific source (other than your own imagination and "vast experience" in British - non-film and TV - business) for any of your statements in the preceding posts. Variety or Hollywood Reporter articles, books, anything.
I'll cite a few things for my understanding of how films and TV work:
The Making of Star Trek by Steven E. Whitfield and Gene Roddenberry - Excellent primer on TV production and financing in the early to mid 1960s.
Gene Roddenberry - pirvate conversation, NY Star Trek Convention 1975
Final Cut : Art, Money, and Ego in the Making of Heaven's Gate, the Film That Sank United Artists by Steven Bach
The Biz: The Basic Business, Legal, and Financial Aspects of the Film Industry
by Schuyler M. Moore
Several histories of the major film studios.
Former TNT executive, private correspondance and conversations, 1998 to 2001
One year gift subscription to Daily Variety.
The Complete Book of Screenwriting by J. Michael Straczysnki
Private e-mail correspondence with executive producer of a highly-rated sitcom currently airing on the ABC television network.
Regards,
Joe
GaribaldisHair
Regular
Re: Actual B5:TLT News
Without wanting to intrude ... it is actually The Complete Book of Scriptwriting. At least that is what my copy is called!
Without wanting to intrude ... it is actually The Complete Book of Scriptwriting. At least that is what my copy is called!
Joseph DeMartino
Moderator
Re: Actual B5:TLT News
Yes it is. Thanks for the correction.
Regards,
Joe
Without wanting to intrude ... it is actually The Complete Book of Scriptwriting. At least that is what my copy is called!
Yes it is. Thanks for the correction.
Regards,
Joe
darth_librarian
Regular
Re: Actual B5:TLT News
regardless of a contest to prove who knows the most about Hollywood (I know nothing, so its all informative to me! )I think we can all agree that we will be buying a copy and posibly some for our friends...
regardless of a contest to prove who knows the most about Hollywood (I know nothing, so its all informative to me! )I think we can all agree that we will be buying a copy and posibly some for our friends...
Shaal Mayan
Regular
Re: Actual B5:TLT News
Make me believe a project once I will believe you again, but fool me 50 times I won't believe a word you say
Okay I am sorry.I have personally gotten too excited about the possibility of seeing new Babylon 5 projects coming to the screen .And have been greatly disappointed in NOT seeing them come to furtation for one reason or another .To say that I am skeptical is putting it midly still.I WANT to see a continuation of the series that I love and adore that he created and gave us but am still holding back.
Make me believe a project once I will believe you again, but fool me 50 times I won't believe a word you say
Okay I am sorry.I have personally gotten too excited about the possibility of seeing new Babylon 5 projects coming to the screen .And have been greatly disappointed in NOT seeing them come to furtation for one reason or another .To say that I am skeptical is putting it midly still.I WANT to see a continuation of the series that I love and adore that he created and gave us but am still holding back.
Recoil
Regular
Re: Actual B5:TLT News
I feel a lot like Shaal Mayan does. I have a friend who doesn't even want to read about this B5:TLT thing until he sees the DVD himself. However, I don't feel that JMS ever *lied* to us in the past, and I dont think Shaal necessairly meant that either. Its just that in the past a lot of us feel that he leaked a lot of informaiton and at times made things look a lot more encouraging than they were, so we got our hopes up only to have the projects fall apart. TMOS was a huge disaapointment. Its not that we think he lies, its just that many have lost faith in B5 projects coming to fruition.
That being said, I think with as much as I have been reading, Im personally convinced this one is really going to happen. We will see though, famous last words.
I feel a lot like Shaal Mayan does. I have a friend who doesn't even want to read about this B5:TLT thing until he sees the DVD himself. However, I don't feel that JMS ever *lied* to us in the past, and I dont think Shaal necessairly meant that either. Its just that in the past a lot of us feel that he leaked a lot of informaiton and at times made things look a lot more encouraging than they were, so we got our hopes up only to have the projects fall apart. TMOS was a huge disaapointment. Its not that we think he lies, its just that many have lost faith in B5 projects coming to fruition.
That being said, I think with as much as I have been reading, Im personally convinced this one is really going to happen. We will see though, famous last words.
