Biggest unanswered questions...

[Raw Shark]

I'm looking forward to seeing my B5 Encyclopedia, but I have to wait another week and a half because I'm out of town. I'm not sure what I'll be looking up first.

But I do have a list in my head of big, unanswered questions about the B5 universe. I bet some of you do as well.

Who bombarded Z'ha'dum, and when? And how many times did it happen? The planet's surface is covered in craters, completely devastated apart from a system of pylons that spreads across that world, probably Shadow tech systems linked to the Great Eye, the uber-planetary defense system (which failed to detect or intercept the White Star carrying two huge fusion warheads on a suicide run, it's almost as if someone was asleep at the switch...). The Shadows used to have cities on the surface, but moved them underground long ago for protection. I believe the Shadow-Vorlon rules of non-engagement were in effect for most of the history of their great proxy wars, meaning that a Vorlon bombardment of the Shadows' homeworld would be an invitation for a Shadow bombardment of the Vorlon homeword. Since that was such a momentous decision for Kosh to make, ending eons of agreement that there would be no direct conflict between the two ancient hyperpowers, it seems unlikely that the Vorlons carried out such an attack. So did one of the younger races do it, like the Minbari? Were they even capable of interstellar travel when it happened? Or some race we don't know about, that may have departed known space or gone extinct? Or the Shadows themselves? Now that would be chaotic behavior (do they get points for consistency?). And did the bombardment happen before or after the Vorlons built the Great Machine?

Who else has questions they're hoping to find answers to in the B5 Encyclopedia?

Raw Shark

"The ultimate synthesis of machine technology and living tissue."
- Dr. Hendricks, Infection

 

[KoshFan]

That Centauri telepathy question that came up the other week is a good one.

 

[Looney]

One quick note while I have a sec. As far as the White Star question goes, don't forget it is partly Vorlon so maybe the Shadow's scanners couldn't penetrate.

 

[babylonfan]

The Whitestar getting through the defences of Z’Ha’Dum is explained in the Techno Mage trilogy.

 

[Looney]

The Whitestar getting through the defences of Z’Ha’Dum is explained in the Techno Mage trilogy.

Thank you for explaining without giving a specific spoiler. That is excellent. :thumbsup:

 

[B5_Obsessed]

I wasn't a fan of the explanation in the Technomage series. It was a big ret-con that totally changes everything about the sequence. Since you are concerned about spoilers I can't even say more than that. As for the bombardment of Z'ha'Dum, I would assume it was some combination of the First Ones, possibly including the Vorlons, and that it occurred way before humanoid civilizations arose in the galaxy.

 

[b5historyman]

I'm looking forward to seeing my B5 Encyclopedia, but I have to wait another week and a half because I'm out of town. I'm not sure what I'll be looking up first.

But I do have a list in my head of big, unanswered questions about the B5 universe. I bet some of you do as well.

Who bombarded Z'ha'dum, and when? And how many times did it happen? The planet's surface is covered in craters, completely devastated apart from a system of pylons that spreads across that world, probably Shadow tech systems linked to the Great Eye, the uber-planetary defense system (which failed to detect or intercept the White Star carrying two huge fusion warheads on a suicide run, it's almost as if someone was asleep at the switch...). The Shadows used to have cities on the surface, but moved them underground long ago for protection. I believe the Shadow-Vorlon rules of non-engagement were in effect for most of the history of their great proxy wars, meaning that a Vorlon bombardment of the Shadows' homeworld would be an invitation for a Shadow bombardment of the Vorlon homeword. Since that was such a momentous decision for Kosh to make, ending eons of agreement that there would be no direct conflict between the two ancient hyperpowers, it seems unlikely that the Vorlons carried out such an attack. So did one of the younger races do it, like the Minbari? Were they even capable of interstellar travel when it happened? Or some race we don't know about, that may have departed known space or gone extinct? Or the Shadows themselves? Now that would be chaotic behavior (do they get points for consistency?). And did the bombardment happen before or after the Vorlons built the Great Machine?

Who else has questions they're hoping to find answers to in the B5 Encyclopedia?

Raw Shark

"The ultimate synthesis of machine technology and living tissue."
- Dr. Hendricks, Infection

1. Probably bombed centuries ago by allies of the Vorlons..

2. The Eye (controlled by an imprisoned Wierden for a thousand years) was turned away by Galen which allowed the White Star to approach unhindered. Reference Passing of the Techno-mages: Invoking Darkness

3. The Vorlons did NOT build the Great Machine. The Builders were an unknown race that Joe was planning on doing a movie of the week about with TNT. Sadly it never came to pass. Reference http://www.jmsnews.com/msg.aspx?id=1-9826

 

[b5historyman]

I wasn't a fan of the explanation in the Technomage series. It was a big ret-con that totally changes everything about the sequence. Since you are concerned about spoilers I can't even say more than that. As for the bombardment of Z'ha'Dum, I would assume it was some combination of the First Ones, possibly including the Vorlons, and that it occurred way before humanoid civilizations arose in the galaxy.

I don't think it retconned anything. Look at the sequence of events between Sheridan firing his PPG and then staggering along the cavern wall to the balcony. There's plainly been a bit of a battle as he's bloodied and his uniform is torn. All Jeanne's book does is fill in the events of that gap. Doesn't alter how things played out on screen. In fact it's in the novel outlines by Joe that Galen helps Sheridan on Z'ha'dum. And Galen is responsible for saving Morden

 

[Springer]

I don't think it retconned anything. Look at the sequence of events between Sheridan firing his PPG and then staggering along the cavern wall to the balcony. There's plainly been a bit of a battle as he's bloodied and his uniform is torn. All Jeanne's book does is fill in the events of that gap. Doesn't alter how things played out on screen. In fact it's in the novel outlines by Joe that Galen helps Sheridan on Z'ha'dum. And Galen is responsible for saving Morden

Unless JMS knew that Galen was helping Sheridan when he wrote Z'Ha'Dum, then by definition it is a retcon as he came up with that plot point after the fact. Not that there is necessarily anything wrong with retcons if they make sense, but that's for the viewer/reader to decide.

 

[Raw Shark]

1. Probably bombed centuries ago by allies of the Vorlons..

2. The Eye (controlled by an imprisoned Wierden for a thousand years) was turned away by Galen which allowed the White Star to approach unhindered. Reference Passing of the Techno-mages: Invoking Darkness

3. The Vorlons did NOT build the Great Machine. The Builders were an unknown race that Joe was planning on doing a movie of the week about with TNT. Sadly it never came to pass. Reference http://www.jmsnews.com/msg.aspx?id=1-9826[/QUOTE]

1. Well, sure, but which ones? And what sort of allies would have the firepower to attack the Shadows' homeworld in such a devastating fashion? This capability is far beyond Sheridan's attack with one ship and two warheads. The heavy cratering seems kind of similar to the effects of a Shadow planet killer, more than anything else we've seen.

2. I know, I read it and took notes.

3. I just knew you would respond to that, thanks! Sounds like that nixed tv movie would have been a hell of a story. I definitely want to know more about Sinclair becoming Valen, and the rather fishy story we heard from Lennier about the 'real reason' for the Minbari surrender at the Battle of the Line.

Another thing I would like to know is, who was Justin? His explanation of his function in the galaxy was certainly colorful, but not very revealing. I think JMS stated that Justin was not on the Icarus mission, he arrived separately. One of the books, I think in the Psi Corps trilogy, says that an Earth Alliance presidential advisor went off on a secret mission, and I think he made a stop at Ganymede. Do I have that right? My books are 800 miles away so I can't check that just now. If Justin volunteered to go to Z'ha'dum to be Earth's representative to the Shadows, it sounds like he was planning on a one-way trip. He essentially went to live among the demons in Hell in service to Earth, to make their grand deal with the Shadows work, and get their hands on all of that sexy tech. Pretty dedicated. I guess he brought a lot of tea for his stay there.

Raw Shark

"Perhaps everyone is wrong."
Kalain, 'Points of Departure'

 

[KoshFan]

I never liked the Technomage trilogy explanation either, because it made Sheridan look like he couldn't do anything without Galen's help. My own headcannon (and yes, I know it conflicts) is that the Eye primarily affects minds, and the White Star was uncrewed, so it punched its way through.

 

[Springer]

1. Well, sure, but which ones? And what sort of allies would have the firepower to attack the Shadows' homeworld in such a devastating fashion? This capability is far beyond Sheridan's attack with one ship and two warheads. The heavy cratering seems kind of similar to the effects of a Shadow planet killer, more than anything else we've seen.

I dunno, a fleet armed with mass drivers and a supply of asteroids would do the trick.

I do kind of like that it is left mysterious who did it. There's millions of years of lost and unexplored history between the dawn of the First Ones and the current crop of humans, Minbari, Centauri etc.

 

[b5historyman]

1. Probably bombed centuries ago by allies of the Vorlons..

2. The Eye (controlled by an imprisoned Wierden for a thousand years) was turned away by Galen which allowed the White Star to approach unhindered. Reference Passing of the Techno-mages: Invoking Darkness

3. The Vorlons did NOT build the Great Machine. The Builders were an unknown race that Joe was planning on doing a movie of the week about with TNT. Sadly it never came to pass. Reference http://www.jmsnews.com/msg.aspx?id=1-9826

1. Well, sure, but which ones? And what sort of allies would have the firepower to attack the Shadows' homeworld in such a devastating fashion? This capability is far beyond Sheridan's attack with one ship and two warheads. The heavy cratering seems kind of similar to the effects of a Shadow planet killer, more than anything else we've seen.

2. I know, I read it and took notes.

3. I just knew you would respond to that, thanks! Sounds like that nixed tv movie would have been a hell of a story. I definitely want to know more about Sinclair becoming Valen, and the rather fishy story we heard from Lennier about the 'real reason' for the Minbari surrender at the Battle of the Line.

Another thing I would like to know is, who was Justin? His explanation of his function in the galaxy was certainly colorful, but not very revealing. I think JMS stated that Justin was not on the Icarus mission, he arrived separately. One of the books, I think in the Psi Corps trilogy, says that an Earth Alliance presidential advisor went off on a secret mission, and I think he made a stop at Ganymede. Do I have that right? My books are 800 miles away so I can't check that just now. If Justin volunteered to go to Z'ha'dum to be Earth's representative to the Shadows, it sounds like he was planning on a one-way trip. He essentially went to live among the demons in Hell in service to Earth, to make their grand deal with the Shadows work, and get their hands on all of that sexy tech. Pretty dedicated. I guess he brought a lot of tea for his stay there.

Raw Shark

"Perhaps everyone is wrong."
Kalain, 'Points of Departure'[/QUOTE]

Other First ones co-opted by the Vorlons in all likelihood. It's never made clear unfortunately.

Well if you want to know the truth about Sinclair/Valen, you couldn't do worse than check out the document I prepared some time ago (updated with references) called Sinclair/Valen: The Whole story. Basically shows Lennier wasn't told the whole truth by Coplann (Joe posted at the time of Points of Departure that the Grey Council never tell the whole truth) https://www.facebook.com/groups/578108902293988/1436841233087413/

Hmmm, Justin was assigned to Z'ha'dum to liaise with The Shadows by Clarke. Not sure of his origins but you're right in that Joe did post about ithat aspect. http://jmsnews.com/msg.aspx?id=1-11125&query=Justin

I think you may be confusing Justin with Kevin Vacit's disappearance after leaving a coded timed file at the Corps secret archive on Ganymede in 2195.

 

[B5_Obsessed]

I wasn't a fan of the explanation in the Technomage series. It was a big ret-con that totally changes everything about the sequence. Since you are concerned about spoilers I can't even say more than that. As for the bombardment of Z'ha'Dum, I would assume it was some combination of the First Ones, possibly including the Vorlons, and that it occurred way before humanoid civilizations arose in the galaxy.

I don't think it retconned anything. Look at the sequence of events between Sheridan firing his PPG and then staggering along the cavern wall to the balcony. There's plainly been a bit of a battle as he's bloodied and his uniform is torn. All Jeanne's book does is fill in the events of that gap. Doesn't alter how things played out on screen. In fact it's in the novel outlines by Joe that Galen helps Sheridan on Z'ha'dum. And Galen is responsible for saving Morden

If it was written later, it was ret-conned, or ret-canned (retroactive canon).

SPOILER>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>











Basically, it says Sheridan's plan was stupid, pointless and doomed to fail and it was only thanks to Galen, whom Sheridan had not even yet met, that it succeeded. It makes the events of Z'ha'Dum a lucky accident.

George Lucas wrote Anakin Skywalker building C3PO, doesn't mean I have to like it.

 

[b5historyman]

I wasn't a fan of the explanation in the Technomage series. It was a big ret-con that totally changes everything about the sequence. Since you are concerned about spoilers I can't even say more than that. As for the bombardment of Z'ha'Dum, I would assume it was some combination of the First Ones, possibly including the Vorlons, and that it occurred way before humanoid civilizations arose in the galaxy.

I don't think it retconned anything. Look at the sequence of events between Sheridan firing his PPG and then staggering along the cavern wall to the balcony. There's plainly been a bit of a battle as he's bloodied and his uniform is torn. All Jeanne's book does is fill in the events of that gap. Doesn't alter how things played out on screen. In fact it's in the novel outlines by Joe that Galen helps Sheridan on Z'ha'dum. And Galen is responsible for saving Morden

If it was written later, it was ret-conned, or ret-canned (retroactive canon).

SPOILER>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>











Basically, it says Sheridan's plan was stupid, pointless and doomed to fail and it was only thanks to Galen, whom Sheridan had not even yet met, that it succeeded. It makes the events of Z'ha'Dum a lucky accident.

George Lucas wrote Anakin Skywalker building C3PO, doesn't mean I have to like it.

Ret canned would be more appropriate a description, because as I said it changes nothing on screen. Although I wouldn't be so harsh in saying Sheridan's plan was stupid. He was invited to Z'ha'dum to learn what it was all about. Sheridan saw it as an opportunity to make a tactical strike against the enemy, one they were not expecting. Galen merely helped in his escape from The Shadows, Morden and Justin and connected to The Eye ensuring the defences wouldn't try and stop the White Star. This was just a confluence of separate events between the characters. And it was the motivation for Galen later contacting Sheridan in A Call to Arms.

 

[okesh_naranell]

I’ve always assumed Justin was a representative of Edgars Industries, liasing with the Shadows on the development of the telepath virus and its vaccine.

On a superficial level, Justin looks a bit like Edgars, and wouldn’t look out of place at an Edgars Industries board meeting.

But Justin also talks about being one of the people who “makes all the decisions that happen transparently around us”, citing everything from hemlines to currencies. Compare this with Edgars’ assertion that “the megacorporations have been running things for years.”

 

[Kraig]

I’ve always assumed Justin was a representative of Edgars Industries, liasing with the Shadows on the development of the telepath virus and its vaccine.

On a superficial level, Justin looks a bit like Edgars, and wouldn’t look out of place at an Edgars Industries board meeting.

But Justin also talks about being one of the people who “makes all the decisions that happen transparently around us”, citing everything from hemlines to currencies. Compare this with Edgars’ assertion that “the megacorporations have been running things for years.”

Justine could also be someone who is working for IPX that was sent to investigate the Icarus disappearing and now working as an intermediary between the Shadows, IPX and Earth (sort of a middle man).

 

[jumptheshark]

I never liked the Technomage trilogy explanation either, because it made Sheridan look like he couldn't do anything without Galen's help. My own headcannon (and yes, I know it conflicts) is that the Eye primarily affects minds, and the White Star was uncrewed, so it punched its way through.

I personally do not count the books as canon--some where written well other like they were written by a chimp at a typewrite

 

[Jan]

I personally do not count the books as canon--some where written well other like they were written by a chimp at a typewrite

The three trilogies ARE canon. They were written from outlines by JMS his-own-self.

 

[KoshFan]

I guess we just need to be careful about how we're using "canon." A lot of times fans use "It's not canon!" as a way to say, "I don't like it, and if I can say it's not canon I can ignore it!" This is cheating.

I readily admit the trilogies are canon; I also admit that JMS's explanation for how Londo's three prophecies shake out is canon; what I do not admit is that "canon" necessarily means "good"!