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Channel 4 (UK) - Just what the hell was cut.

D

**DONOTDELETE**

Guest
Does anyone out there have a complete list of cuts made by the UK Channel 4 as I've recently just bought the entire series and would really like to know just what the hell was cut?

By the way, has anyone noticed during B5 just how many communications come through on channel four?


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I believe it was an intentional thanks to the UK channel for their support.

Other than cutting Franklin getting stabbed, even though you don't actually see the knife going into his stomach, I don't know what is cut.

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"Crying isn't gonna get your dog back. Unless your tears smell like dog food. So you can sit here eating can after can of dog food until your tears smell like dog food or you can go out there and find your dog."-Homer in The Canine Mutiny
 
Of course I may be way off here but I remember reading somewhere that Delenn's agitated "Bastards!" cry was cut out... and wasn't the part where G'Kar cut into his hand when he talked to Vir (the "Dead... dead... dead..." scene) also left out in the Channel 4 version?

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"Isn't the universe an amazing place? I wouldn't live anywhere else." - G'Kar, B5: Rangers
Kribu's Lounge | kribu@ranger.b5lr.com
 
Must be some sensitive people over in the UK as those scenes we saw here in Australia....

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"When it is time, come to this place, call our name, we will be here" -Walkers of Sigma957
 
Babylon 5 was cut to give it a PG classification, that is suitable for viewing by an 8 year old.

Only a small amount was cut. Andy Lane lists many of them in his "Babylon File" books.

The ones I can remember are Delenn swearing, Sheridan repeating pointing his gun at Lyta's head and Lochley talking about lay overs.

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Andrew Swallow
 
Channel 4 did show the unedited versions of B5 season 5 on their 4Later slot. "Bastards" was only cut out because it was originally shown on the Big Breakfast.

At least it waasn't as bad what they did to Angel, they made that compleatly unwatchable.

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"Watch the Shadows, they move when you're not looking..."
 
I have a question I can't resolve.

If somebody is going to cut out any violence or inappropirate behaviour which exceeds the threshold of Delenn getting annoyed... then they would really have to cut everything.

1. Cut all acts of violence, first of all armed conflicts and space battles. Also, cut any references to acts of war, violence, oppression or injustice. People with imagination might damage their precious little minds.

2. Cut everything which is distressing or not optimistic. Cut references to any extinctions. Cut the Ikarran warrior, cut the Markab plague, cut the bombardment of Narn and the Drakh takeover on Centauri Prime.

3. As a final strike, cut everything which might provoke emotion and thought. You can leave the scene of Sheridan and Garibaldi discussing weather -- because you cut the scene which connected it to the nuclear bombs.

4. Cut the Pak'ma'ra shake. It is rude.

In the end, we would be left with a story consisting of "goodfacts". A story not worth watching. It would require cutting all references to real or imaginary history, most situations involving heated debate, most questions which might generate doubt or discussion. To level B5 to that threshold, they would have to cut most of it.

That, of course, would remind me of Asimov's "End of Eternity" -- altering everything from history to fiction to make the world safe and comfortable. But leaving the difficult questions unasked leaves a civilisation unprepared for its future. Umm... wasn't this the point of science fiction?
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[This message has been edited by Lennier (edited December 29, 2001).]
 
Kribu wrote

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>
No offense, but wouldn't 8-year-olds be outside the target group of B5 anyway?
I mean, most 8-year-olds I've met wouldn't really be able to follow the story... if they were going for a rating, why not a '12' or something like that?

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
The Tristons (UK TV suites) think Science Fiction is for 8 to 11 year olds. That is why they put it on at 6.00 p.m. In the Tristons world view Babylon 5 and Star Trek (TOS) have to be for children - the stories have morals, no nudity and no sex.

The Babylon 5 videos were released in the UK without cuts by giving them a '12' classification.

Unfortunately, five years ago British TV had not caught up with the '12' rating; it went straight from 'PG' (old 'AA') to 'X'. 'X' (now '18') films had to be shown after 9.00 p.m. Only films and programmes with a 'U' rating can be shown before 6.00 p.m. on British terrestrial television.

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Andrew Swallow
 
Lennier wrote

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR> I have a question I can't resolve.

If somebody is going to cut out any violence or inappropriate behaviour which exceeds the threshold of Delenn getting annoyed... then they would really have to cut everything.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Getting round British censorship laws is an interesting story in craftiness. The British take their children to see pantomimes at Christmas. These shows have hardly changed in the last 150 years. That includes the 'dame' being played by a man and the principal boy being played by an actress in hot pants. There are other weird things in there as well, such as the jokes.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>

{snip}
3. As a final strike, cut everything which might provoke emotion and thought. You can leave the scene of Sheridan and Garibaldi discussing weather -- because you cut the scene which connected it to the nuclear bombs.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Children are meant to learn to think. It is the shows for grown ups, like soap operas, that do not require thought. (Special exemption for plays on BBC2 that the Tristons make for their fellow university graduates.)


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Andrew Swallow
 
It amuses me what bureaucrats can come up with to justify their pitiful existence. Cutting out scenes to make a show fit a rating? I would ask them to shove their classification system where no light escapes.

My principle is:

Show it if you want. Leave it unaired if you don't. Your competitors will show it anyway, sooner or later. But never alter. Any and all censorship is biased, and a very slippery slope. The world is large enough for someone to find any part offensive. You can't cut out everything, so better cut nothing. Other people might consider the lost part valuable, if not essential.

---

It shows a most appalling lack of guts, one which would make me politely inform the TV station in question of my opinion.

I would thank them for airing my favourite show, but mention that there are issues with their approach. I would explain that this being my favourite show, I will watch it regardless of the insult called censorship.

I would also tell that if this intolerable practise will not cease, this will be the last show I ever watch on their channel. Enough of similar opinions would make any TV station consider their approach.
 
No offense, but wouldn't 8-year-olds be outside the target group of B5 anyway?

I mean, most 8-year-olds I've met wouldn't really be able to follow the story... if they were going for a rating, why not a '12' or something like that?

Of course, the whole ratings issue is a funny thing. I guess it's because it didn't exist here when I grew up... and most adventure books (that I read before school) would qualify as way more violent than most of B5.
crazy.gif


BTW, how about the beginning of S4 - eps 1-5, for example, with the whole Cartagia and torture story line, severed heads, bloody hands, whipping etc? Was that cut out altogether or was it deemed more suitable for 8-year-olds than Delenn screaming "Bastards!"?

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"Isn't the universe an amazing place? I wouldn't live anywhere else." - G'Kar, B5: Rangers
Kribu's Lounge | kribu@ranger.b5lr.com
 
B5 wasn't cut because C4 wanted to aim it at 8-year-olds, they just wanted to beable to fit it into any time slot and don't want to limit themselves to just showing it after 9:00pm. To my mind this is an even worse reason for cutting as it shows the least ammount of respect. Most networks only use sci-fi as filler, sticking it in the most unpopular slots.

They also move it seemingly at random. I can remember at least 5 different times B5 has been shown. The original run of the first few seasons was shown at the 6:00pm slot, season 4 was shown at about 10:00/11:00pm, half of season 5 was shown at about 2:00pm on sunday afternoons and the remainder of the series was shown on the Big Breakfast! Then there was the 1:00am repeats. Not to mention it being rescheduled/cancelled for every minor sporting event.

If they buy a show then they should put it in a sutable time slot, but they do it the other way around, buying programmes to fill their time slots.


[This message has been edited by En'til'zha (edited December 30, 2001).]
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>If they buy a show then they should put it in a suitable time slot...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

With this I agree completely. It is an insult to the people who made the show to have their work nibbled on by mindless TV bureaucrats and a channel which wants to test it in all timeslots.

Oh sure, I would watch a good show regardless of such obstructions. I might even commend the TV station upon their good choice of material... adding that, to keep my respect, they would have air it completely.

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"We are the universe, trying to figure itself out.
Unfortunately we as software lack any coherent documentation."
-- Delenn
 
The British networks seem to regard science fiction fans as a captive audience - ie we'll watch the show irrespective of what time they air it and how often they change the time slot
mad.gif


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'Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards, for they are subtle and quick to anger.'
'No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife between the shoulderblades will seriously cramp his style.'
 
Even this approach contains a choice for them.

1. Put it in a good timeslot, and people will watch it in real-time. May-be they will even notice the advertisements.

2. Put it in a bad timeslot, and people will program their VCR to record it. They will skip the advertisements.

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"We are the universe, trying to figure itself out.
Unfortunately we as software lack any coherent documentation."
-- Delenn
 
Whoooooaaahhh, I love it whenwe get the chance to rip into the BBFC with their almost Vorlon like manipulations.

Although a few have answered the original question, this debate has become something far better than I ever anticipated.

Channel 4, sure, jms liked them for their commitment to showing the show in the first place, but would he have liked them for cutting it as much as they did?

What's the point in having complete control of a show if, once it's sold abroad, is mutilated and distilled? (no, this ISN'T an attack on jms, the guy's a genius).


Tho' much is taken, much abides.
and tho' we are not now that strength,
which in old days moved Earth and Heaven,
that which we are, we are.

One equal temper of heroic hearts,
made weak by time and fate but strong in will, to strive, to seek, to find and not to yield.


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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>
Whoooooaaahhh, I love it whenwe get the chance to rip into the BBFC with their almost Vorlon like manipulations.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The British Board of Film Classification (BBFC) gave the videos their classifications. The rules covering showing Babylon 5 on Channel 4 are set by a different organization the ITC (Independent Television Commission).

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Andrew Swallow
 
No problem.

I blame the Whitehouse.

Building or Mary? Probably both.
Anyway, I blame the Whitehouse.

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Andrew Swallow
 

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