Doctor Who: The End of Time (You have been Warned)

[Chilli]

Certainly Moffat will want to do things his own way and take the show in his own direction, but, we can hope that he and RTD sat down and discussed where Moff wanted to start from. For example, Moff might have said "I want to start with a Black Guardian/White Guardian story arc, can you slip in a mystery person (I think I want to use a woman for the White Guardian this time) for me to pick up the thread with". Or, he might have said he wants be able to play with the Time Lords, so, he might have suggested RTD open that door up for him to expand upon, etc.

Or maybe not....

It's possible, but Moff and RTD don't have a good track record here.

A lot of people were bugged, back in season 2, about "The Girl in the Fireplace" not fitting in with the rest of the season. While that season had this big Rose-Doctor-Love thing going on, The Girl in the Fireplace had the doctor chasing after some French broad, and Rose not really caring either way about this.

Apparently this happened because ... RTD didn't inform Moff about his plans for the season, and Moff didn't care to ask about his plans. So he simply didn't know that Rose was supposed to have the hots for the Doctor.

I suspect Moff won't contradict any of the continuity established by RTD, but I'd be surprised if he went out of his way to tie up any of his loose ends. We shall see.

 

[Sindatur]

Certainly Moffat will want to do things his own way and take the show in his own direction, but, we can hope that he and RTD sat down and discussed where Moff wanted to start from. For example, Moff might have said "I want to start with a Black Guardian/White Guardian story arc, can you slip in a mystery person (I think I want to use a woman for the White Guardian this time) for me to pick up the thread with". Or, he might have said he wants be able to play with the Time Lords, so, he might have suggested RTD open that door up for him to expand upon, etc.

Or maybe not....

It's possible, but Moff and RTD don't have a good track record here.

A lot of people were bugged, back in season 2, about "The Girl in the Fireplace" not fitting in with the rest of the season. While that season had this big Rose-Doctor-Love thing going on, The Girl in the Fireplace had the doctor chasing after some French broad, and Rose not really caring either way about this.

Apparently this happened because ... RTD didn't inform Moff about his plans for the season, and Moff didn't care to ask about his plans. So he simply didn't know that Rose was supposed to have the hots for the Doctor.

I suspect Moff won't contradict any of the continuity established by RTD, but I'd be surprised if he went out of his way to tie up any of his loose ends. We shall see.

Well, not just any French chick

I'll have to watch that one again, I recall her being in love with the Dr, but, I don't recall the Dr actually reciprocating romantic love feelings, definitely concerned love feelings, but not anything like the love Rose and the Doctor had for each other. That was one thing that did irritate me about the RTD era, too many women having the hots for the Doctor. With Rose it was fine, she was the first companion that the Doctor has shown any romantic feelings, and Rose the onl;y one I recall showing romantic feelings for the Doctor (though the School one with Sarah Jane showed she had much stronger feelings than were shown in her previous time with the Doctor)

 

[Chilli]

Well, not just any French chick

.. in theory

This was, for me, one of the weak points of TGitF. Mme de Pompadour came off as way too random to explain the doctor's infatuation for me.

As far as I know, the certain parts of the fandom are still at war regarding the question if the Doctor loved Rose or not. But Rose's feelings for him were quite clear, and her behaviour in TGitF was certainly inconsistent.

I don't really hold it against TGitF, though, as I greatly disliked the whole Rose arc in season 2, but mostly liked TGitF.

That was one thing that did irritate me about the RTD era, too many women having the hots for the Doctor. With Rose it was fine, she was the first companion that the Doctor has shown any romantic feelings, and Rose the onl;y one I recall showing romantic feelings for the Doctor (though the School one with Sarah Jane showed she had much stronger feelings than were shown in her previous time with the Doctor)

Indeed. I do hope that this won't continue with Amy Pond. Alex Kingston (River Song from Silence in the Library/Forest of the Dead) was spotted on the season 5 set .. and I could really do without more Doctor love triangles.

 

[Sindatur]

Seriously? There's still debate about wether the Dr reciprocated Rose's love?

I could understand early on, but after all that we've seen, some are still denying it? I can understand some not wanting to believe it, but, the facts are pretty hard to deny. He even told her once (or almost told her)

 

[Jade Jaguar]

Certainly Moffat will want to do things his own way and take the show in his own direction, but, we can hope that he and RTD sat down and discussed where Moff wanted to start from. For example, Moff might have said "I want to start with a Black Guardian/White Guardian story arc, can you slip in a mystery person (I think I want to use a woman for the White Guardian this time) for me to pick up the thread with". Or, he might have said he wants be able to play with the Time Lords, so, he might have suggested RTD open that door up for him to expand upon, etc.

Or maybe not....

I think you're right about that. And, I can't imagine the Doctor naming Rassilon, and there being no follow-up, even if it takes a few EPs to show up.

 

[darth_librarian]

All the time lord stuff is there is Moff needs it. Th efact that the master, Rassilon, the mystery woman and a load of others are hidden away somewhere is probably too good a trick for any writer to ignore ...

 

[Sindatur]

All the time lord stuff is there is Moff needs it. Th efact that the master, Rassilon, the mystery woman and a load of others are hidden away somewhere is probably too good a trick for any writer to ignore ...

Yesterday, someone on another board said that Moff actually took over sometime during the specials, so, therefore, all the new elements in the End of Time were actually his. Anyone know if there is any truth to that?

 

[Chilli]

All the time lord stuff is there is Moff needs it. Th efact that the master, Rassilon, the mystery woman and a load of others are hidden away somewhere is probably too good a trick for any writer to ignore ...

Yesterday, someone on another board said that Moff actually took over sometime during the specials, so, therefore, all the new elements in the End of Time were actually his. Anyone know if there is any truth to that?

Yes, this is true .. but he was not involved with the Timelord stuff at all. RTD wrote the script up to the regeneration .. and then asked moff for a line or two for 11. As 11 was "his" doctor, RTD felt that he should write the first words that he says.

Of course, Moff sent RTD a bit more than a line. Including a ginger joke that the BBC has officially apologized for, releasing a clarification that it was not meant to be disparaging towards gingers.

 

[Galahad]

Of course, Moff sent RTD a bit more than a line. Including a ginger joke that the BBC has officially apologized for, releasing a clarification that it was not meant to be disparaging towards gingers.

And of course anyone with half a brain would know this (especially if they'd seen The Parting of The Ways" which the line was a direct throwback to).

 

[vacantlook]

And of course anyone with half a brain would know this (especially if they'd seen The Parting of The Ways" which the line was a direct throwback to).

I'm so new to Doctor Who that I doubt I've seen that, but even I had enough brain to figure out that the ginger hair statement was a refernece to something I hadn't seen. :vulcan:

 

[Sindatur]

And of course anyone with half a brain would know this (especially if they'd seen The Parting of The Ways" which the line was a direct throwback to).

I'm so new to Doctor Who that I doubt I've seen that, but even I had enough brain to figure out that the ginger hair statement was a refernece to something I hadn't seen. :vulcan:

Doctor #6, Colin Baker...No?

 

[Republibot 3.0]

Not very impressed, mostly for reasons explained here by other folk. Weak writing from RTD, with plot development far too reliant on exposition via narrative from the Ood, news reports and Daltons' character.

The whole Master re-birth think was frankly dire and wasted, especially the whole concept of the books of Saxon introduced and disposed of in 5 minutes. I really hate it when RTD does that. Simms was good, but the whole crazy fighting with lightning thing was a bit tragic. Humorous finale, at least.

Good stuff from Cribbins, as always.

The RTD Who bingo slip can be used here, and has been to good effect:

http://twitpic.com/v6ook

I'll have a blank copy aside for the finale, and be looking forward to the Moff in 2010.


http://redplanetblog.typepad.com/fanboygeeks/images/2008/02/05/rtdbingosmall.jpg

Agreed. What made it worse for me was that the 'big evil plot' (Which felt forced and padded out to me in part one) was resolved like half-way through part 2, with such relative ease that it undercut everything they were trying to accomplish in part 1. The long goodbye was nice, but too long and maudlin.

 

[Republibot 3.0]

On first viewing, I was underwhelmed. The blatant Star Wars rip-offs, overlong ending, Martha and Mickey (WTF!?!), it felt overdone.

But, second time through, I liked it more. Got more into the character moments. Overall, it wasn't the best sent off for Tennant, but it was good enough. I did like Ten's last line. Still not sold on Matt Smith yet, but I'm content to wait and see.

I don't really understand why Wilfred went into the enclosure, and pushed the big red button. As he did it, I thought it was something to help the Dr., but it just turned out to make no sense to me.

It was explained in the first part ... that security system is set so that one door must always be locked, in order for someone to get out, someone else has to go into the other room. Wilf went in to let the other guy out. A simple moment of compassion.

I just came out of it thinking "Thank God that's over with, now we can get back to a show about Dr. Who, rather than a show about Dr. Who's Producer."

 

[Republibot 3.0]

On first viewing, I was underwhelmed. The blatant Star Wars rip-offs, overlong ending, Martha and Mickey (WTF!?!), it felt overdone.

Honest question .. which parts did you feel were Star Wars rip-offs, aside from the council chamber?

And yeah .. Martha and Mickey .. er .. didn't RTD already marry Martha off with this Tom Milligan guy?

And can someone please explain the logic behind that cabin thingy to me - in particular the part where they vent the radiation into it? In other words, the system is constructed to vent radiation to .. the one place someone is guaranteed to be. :wtf:

.. anyone have any guesses about the msytery woman, btw? Susan?

And isn't Rassilon .. quite, quite dead?

I actually enjoyed it more than the first part, but am still glad RTD's "arc" has come to an end. I'm not sold on Matt Smith either yet, and I'm not actually too thrilled about some of the things I've heard Moffat say about where he wants to take the show ... but I still trust him to make something that doesn't suck. Considering how everything he has ever made for TV is great (not just for DW - Press Gang was quite good, Jekyll was great, and Coupling is the bestest of best things ever made for TV), he had better not make the show suck.

 

[Republibot 3.0]

.. anyone have any guesses about the msytery woman, btw? Susan?

And isn't Rassilon .. quite, quite dead?

Everyone's saying the woman was the Doctor's mother, which makes no freakin' sense to me, particularly the whole "I was lost long ago" line. I think it was either Susan or Romanna, both of whom were abandoned by the doctor at one point or another. Of course she could be some completely new character that'll be examined in more detail later on.

Rassilon being alive didn't bother me. They're time travelers, after all. They could have said "Holy crap, this is a big frackin' war! Be a dear and pop back a billion years and pick up the founder of our civilization, would you? Get him something to eat and then bring him back here." Also, we've seen the Time Lords can resurrect their own kind fairly easily. Hell, The Master was resurrected in this one.

 

[Republibot 3.0]

Doctor #6, Colin Baker...No?

Yes. #6 = Colin Baker

 

[Galahad]

Rassilon being alive didn't bother me. They're time travelers, after all. They could have said "Holy crap, this is a big frackin' war! Be a dear and pop back a billion years and pick up the founder of our civilization, would you? Get him something to eat and then bring him back here." Also, we've seen the Time Lords can resurrect their own kind fairly easily. Hell, The Master was resurrected in this one.

You have to go with the latter theory because the former theory would be terrible writing and is so bum numbingly awful in terms of continuities and paradoxes... that it wouldn't work!

 

[Sindatur]

Doctor #6, Colin Baker...No?

Yes. #6 = Colin Baker

Well, yea, LOL, I know Colin Baker was Doctor #6, I was saying I believe that he was who the "ginger" comment was aimed at in Matt Smith's opening scene.

 

[Galahad]

Doctor #6, Colin Baker...No?

Yes. #6 = Colin Baker

Well, yea, LOL, I know Colin Baker was Doctor #6, I was saying I believe that he was who the "ginger" comment was aimed at in Matt Smith's opening scene.

This is what you are looking for.

 

[Sindatur]

Yes. #6 = Colin Baker

Well, yea, LOL, I know Colin Baker was Doctor #6, I was saying I believe that he was who the "ginger" comment was aimed at in Matt Smith's opening scene.

This is what you are looking for.

What ep? Looks like Tennant's first Ep, but, someone else mentioned Parting of the Ways. I have no sound here, and the other computer doesn't play videos (Flash is messed up)