earth ships

**DONOTDELETE** · Feb 21, 2002

Actually your both correct. The Centauri did not want to mess with the Minbari both when the were the lion of the galaxy, and during B5. The fact is the power of the Minbari was not unknown the the Centauri in either times, and would not risk such a war. When the Centauri had 1/4 of the galaxy, the only difference was that the Minbari didn't want to mess with the Centauri as well.

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you cannot make history, only hope to survive it.

**DONOTDELETE** · Feb 21, 2002

"Even at the height of the Centauri, when we were expanding in all directions, we never opposed the Minbari."

"Minbari have no interest in alien business."

Statements that Londo made in the movie ItB. What I gather from this is that the Minbari left the Centauri alone regardless of whether the Centauri controlled 1/4 the galaxy or not. Also, the Centauri had a pretty good idea about how powerful the Minbari were and weren't stupid enough to, as Londo puts it, "wake the giant."

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YOU ARE NOT READY FOR IMMORTALITY!

ITRP · Feb 21, 2002

After reading through this thread, I see that my response is slightly askew of the main focus, but hopefully not so dreadfully so that...well, here goes:

I've always been impressed by the Earth ships in B5. Not because they were technologically more advanced than the other races. Not because of the cool fighter launch mechanisms (or was that just on B5?). But, because, IMO, they look like a reasonable jump from today's (1993 - 2002) technology to 2262. It's only 260+ years. In my mind, our space-faring vessels will be big & bulky, require a rotational gravity engine, etc.

Not to say that I don't like the visions represented by other sci-fi shows (ST, FarScape, and the like), but they just look plausible, IMO.

The other races in B5 had such incrediblly cool looking vessels, that, IMO, could not be reached by humans in 260+ years. At least, not without a lot of external ideas.

But, then again, after sitting in on a NanoTechnology conference the other day...260+ years may be MORE than enough time for humans to bridge that gap between plausible science & ultra-cool fiction. What was science fiction 5 years ago is a reality (or close to being a reality) today, and could be perfected in 10 years.

I babble...my apologies, just thought that JMS did a great job at representing the plausible step of human-tech in the time span between "now" and "the future".

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USPTO - Where I work.
Stanley Associates - Who I work for.
UD Cancer Agent

superbob · Feb 25, 2002

well IRTP let me just say that bill gates said it best
"you will never need anything stronger than a 486"
I bet the whole in his foot is still smoking. Then again the cash in the pocket is definitely soothing the pain.
The speed at which we're developing is mind boggling. So suffice to say I think if we don't wipe ourselves out we may just make it.

Just for the record I think the earth ships rocked, bulky yes but the warlock class was awesome!

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"I am Grey. I stand between the candle and the star. We are Grey. We stand between the darkness and the light. I come to take the place that has been prepared for me"
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the present becomes the past, the past becomes history, history becomes legend, legend becomes myth, myth becomes obscurity! please pass the flarn!

**DONOTDELETE** · Feb 25, 2002

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>The Centauri ruled 1/4 of the galaxy...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Trickier than you may think. Not only may wishful thinking be involved (ruling versus influencing) but this was clearly the *part* of galaxy known to them.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>"Even at the height of the Centauri, when we were expanding in all directions, we never opposed the Minbari."<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Seems logical. Their empire may have easily exceeded the territory and population of the Minbari Federation, and worlds allied with it. Hell, even Earth Alliance may have been larger then the Minbari Federation. Sadly enough, size did not matter.

In case of large technical differences, size is hardly the decisive factor. One Vorlon cruiser can face ten Minbari cruisers. One Minbari cruiser can face ten Earth cruisers.

Besides, advanced civilisations can build ships faster. In the time needed to build one Earth Force destroyer, the Centauri might crank out two cruisers. And the Shadows, well, they grow their ships like plants in their back yard. In that time, they might have harvested 10 battlecrabs.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>I only read B5 material which is stamped, authenticated, 100% canon, and approved by JMS 100%, i wouldn't waste my time otherwise.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I would deem this approach a mistake. Because in that case, one would have to read nothing -- for in a continuous story nothing can remain 100% canon. Everything is bound to be contradicted by something, and it is our choice which source to accept.

I enjoy reading less than canonical sources, including but not limited to fan fiction. Why limit one's imagination to something "officially" authorized? I find no logic in that approach.

[This message has been edited by Lennier (edited February 25, 2002).]

ITRP · Feb 25, 2002

Some of the "fun" stuff that I've seen here at the USPTO has led me to believe that science fiction may actually be science probability.

That whole nanotechnology conference/meeting was amazing. If we can perfect that, then yes we'll be moving ahead in leaps & bounds.

As you mentioned, Superbob, who would have thought the need for anything faster/more powerful than a 486, 8 MB RAM, 750 MB HDD, dual speed CD-ROM, & a floppy. That was only 6 years ago....*gasp*.

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USPTO - Where I work.
Stanley Associates - Who I work for.
UD Cancer Agent

**DONOTDELETE** · Feb 25, 2002

well if your as big of a B5 fan as myself i wish to know everything there is about b5. to read nocanal sources would be to fill my mind with worthless information on a subject that i take seriously. If you want to build an airplane why would you read all the theories from hundred years ago, when you can just find all the true information needed from today. My point is i want to know everything true about it and will read only true sources, the logic in not doing so would be false

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you cannot make history, only hope to survive it.

**DONOTDELETE** · Feb 25, 2002

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>...to fill my mind with worthless information on a subject that i take seriously...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Building an airplane is not a good comparison. It is a matter where I too consider exactness important. I happen to build models and know what happens if you get a wing profile wrong.

But in case of *fiction* my opinion is quite the opposite. On several occasions, JMS has either reconsidered, improvised or been otherwise forced to contradict himself. So even his own works are not "canon" in the strict sense.

In the realm of books written by others, contradictions can only increase. Some contradictions may be real, and some imaginary. I like gleeful chaos and enjoy reading competitive explanations. Because in some cases, neither and both are true.

[This message has been edited by Lennier (edited February 25, 2002).]

**DONOTDELETE** · Feb 26, 2002

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Lennier said
But in case of *fiction* my opinion is quite the opposite. On several occasions, JMS has either reconsidered, improvised or been otherwise forced to contradict himself. So even his own works are not "canon" in the strict sense.

In the realm of books written by others, contradictions can only increase. Some contradictions may be real, and some imaginary. I like gleeful chaos and enjoy reading competitive explanations. Because in some cases, neither and both are true.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well said, Lennier. I also like reading as much as possible about everything Babylon 5, technology, races, culture, government, etc. I like comparing things with each other and delving into the world of B5. But I also realize that when a 'fictional' world is imagined by many different authors, game developers, software programmers, etc; you can never truly have a 100% canonical world. After all, it is fiction, and the fun for me isn't sticking to the facts but finding out as much as I can about the characters and ships I've come to know and love. Maybe this helps you understand why people like what you call 'useless information', greatone2002.

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YOU ARE NOT READY FOR IMMORTALITY!

superbob · Feb 26, 2002

Well said Oh dark one

Enjoy the fiction and become a stickler for fact within the fiction

um, hopefully it made sense.
Anyway look at the fiction from centuries ago, frowned upon as being nonsense I mean the universe revolving around earth (talk about egomania!

)
Enjoy it for what it's worth. Personally I think you would have to look at the evolution of a ship as opposed to using "whats already there". Careful of the saying history repeats itself therefore so do the mistakes!

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"I am Grey. I stand between the candle and the star. We are Grey. We stand between the darkness and the light. I come to take the place that has been prepared for me"
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the present becomes the past, the past becomes history, history becomes legend, legend becomes myth, myth becomes obscurity! please pass the flarn!

**DONOTDELETE** · Feb 26, 2002

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Superbob said
Anyway look at the fiction from centuries ago, frowned upon as being nonsense I mean the universe revolving around earth (talk about egomania!)
Enjoy it for what it's worth. Personally I think you would have to look at the evolution of a ship as opposed to using "whats already there". Careful of the saying history repeats itself therefore so do the mistakes! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thank you Oh super one.

Didn't get what you meant about the fiction from the past and the universe revolving around Earth.

It is a shame that history repeats itself because that means to date we haven't learned from our mistakes. On a good note, we are making less mistakes than in the past. Maybe this is a trend and in the future, we won't make any mistakes at all. Or maybe thats just my unchecked optimism.

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YOU ARE NOT READY FOR IMMORTALITY!

**DONOTDELETE** · Feb 27, 2002

I apologise, i written that wrong i guess, due to the fact that the wrong impression was sent. I see why people like to read all of the excess stuff, and dont blame them. The point i was saying to myself, is that B5 is very important to myself, and I prefer not to get things right, when any fiction is expanded on, they will allways be contradictions, and example of the would be the Battle of the line. The thing is later you fix it, and that is the way it was supposed to be. I just like to know the true timeline.

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you cannot make history, only hope to survive it.

Shaal Mayan · Feb 27, 2002

Not a big fan of earth ships however the minbari ships are just yummy.

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superbob · Feb 28, 2002

I was actually refering more to history than fiction. Sorry I guess I should make the distinction clear. I stand under correction but I think it was Galileo who stated that the sun was the centre of the solar system, the church of course felt that the earth was the centre of everything. The poor guy was locked up and threatened with excommunication. Suffice to say it was viewed as fiction back then and has become a fact of life today that any small child knows.
I mean the first rockets that went up into space had about as much computer memory as your pocket calculator.
In this day and age science fiction and reality become very blurred!

Who knows maybe it won't be 260 years, maybe it will only be 160 yrs or even 60 yrs! I only wish I could be around to see it!
To hell with the ships, work on the cryogenic deep sleep technology!

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"I am Grey. I stand between the candle and the star. We are Grey. We stand between the darkness and the light. I come to take the place that has been prepared for me"
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the present becomes the past, the past becomes history, history becomes legend, legend becomes myth, myth becomes obscurity! please pass the flarn!

jnk5y · Feb 28, 2002

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> To hell with the ships, work on the cryogenic deep sleep technology! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Whoops tripped over the power cord

Sorry, my bad.

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**DONOTDELETE** · Mar 1, 2002

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by greatone2002:
well if your as big of a B5 fan as myself i wish to know everything there is about b5. to read nocanal sources would be to fill my mind with worthless information on a subject that i take seriously. If you want to build an airplane why would you read all the theories from hundred years ago, when you can just find all the true information needed from today. My point is i want to know everything true about it and will read only true sources, the logic in not doing so would be false

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

There is *nothing* true about it. It's *all* fiction. Damn impressive fiction, but fiction, none-the-less. Your approach also blinds you to other good stories. Here's a couple links:
Virtual season six http://www.telusplanet.net/public/dgolding/vs6/VS6_Episodes.htm
B5 Parallel universe: a Dark, distorted mirror http://www.b5-dark-mirror.demon.co.uk/
These are excellent, approaching JMS's quality in places (I know, heresy, and all that).Do yourself a favor and check them out, especially the second one.
Darkwing

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Darkwing
Let's..get..dangerous

Quagmire · Mar 1, 2002

The point is that non-canon sources have no relevance to said fiction. They are not a part of it.

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"I was free to wallow in my own crapulence." -Mr. Burns in "Who Shot Mr. Burns Part Two"

superbob · Mar 4, 2002

Moral of the story, don't have cords, invent half life atomic batteries that can last a thousand years

just pray that you don't grow an extra arm or something!

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"I am Grey. I stand between the candle and the star. We are Grey. We stand between the darkness and the light. I come to take the place that has been prepared for me"
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the present becomes the past, the past becomes history, history becomes legend, legend becomes myth, myth becomes obscurity! please pass the flarn!

**DONOTDELETE** · Mar 4, 2002

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Superbob said
I only wish I could be around to see it! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

AMEN

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YOU ARE NOT READY FOR IMMORTALITY!

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