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Enterprise: "Countdown"
- Thread starter vacantlook
- Start date
Chilli
High Treason Prevention Officer
Re: Enterprise: \"Countdown\"
Oh my .. you just signed up for a hefty spanking
Porthos would be one of the musketeers from Alexandre Dumas' "The Three Musketeers" and its sequels. The name itself is in the book a "fake" name, taken to "hide" the real (french) name of the character(s) (the three musketeers mentioned in the title all have one - Porthos, Athos, Aramis) .. the names themselves are probably "trying to sound" greek.
*ties up hyp, hands her to Kribu for spanking*
But then I'd never know what happened to my favorite character: the dog. Whatever his name is. Porthos? Where did that name come from, anyway? It sounds classical somehow.
Oh my .. you just signed up for a hefty spanking
Porthos would be one of the musketeers from Alexandre Dumas' "The Three Musketeers" and its sequels. The name itself is in the book a "fake" name, taken to "hide" the real (french) name of the character(s) (the three musketeers mentioned in the title all have one - Porthos, Athos, Aramis) .. the names themselves are probably "trying to sound" greek.
*ties up hyp, hands her to Kribu for spanking*
colonyearth
Regular
Re: Enterprise: \"Countdown\"
There is a more imaginative way that would, in fact, set things up perfectly for Kirk and the looks and tech of his time. Explanation still to come...(and don't worry Hyp...if they would do this idea and do it right...I wouldn't care if they stole it).
There is a more imaginative way that would, in fact, set things up perfectly for Kirk and the looks and tech of his time. Explanation still to come...(and don't worry Hyp...if they would do this idea and do it right...I wouldn't care if they stole it
).
Re: Enterprise: \"Countdown\"
colonyearth... wow... your anti-Berman and Braga marches go to new heights of ignorance.
Where on earth do I start. Again.
You blather about "Archer was key in the formation of the Federation? The Federation forms at least twenty years too early, BEFORE the Romulan War?"
Erm, what figures are you using?
Now, let us see. Enterprise is launched in 2151.
The Federation is formed in 2161.
Enterprise is in season three (2154) and Daniels says it will happen in about seven years time and... let me see... *gets out his calculator* 2154 + 7 = 2161.
ARGH!!! Berman and Braga evil bastards. Out of their way to wreck Trek. WRECK IT I SAY! They get up out of bed in the morning and go "ARGH! LET'S WRECK TREK. Let's not just violate continuity by chance, let's DO IT ON PURPOSE. Because we're evil. Yarrrgh!"
And for the record, the Earth-Romulan war starts in 2156. Before 2161.
Then you go on to: "I mean all of these events and not ONE mention in later shows about Archer or Enterprise or Xindi or, well, any of it." Well, it's a prequel... what else can they do? Go back and write episodes that have already been done? I admit that it's slightly far fetched in a sense, that Archer isn't mentioned in anything until Nemesis, but that's a bit of creative license that can be avoided.
Having said that, what do you know about the formation of the Federation from all the other Treks? Did they just meet in a pub one day and decide to form one?
There will be events that led to things like the birth of the Federation, it's just they've never been delved into. If they didn't mention much in previous Treks, we should asuming it's boring and a story not worth repeating? There's hundreds of planets in the UFP in later years. Do you know them all? I find it easy to believe there's tonnes of stories that we've not heard about.
Conversely that we didn't see the Andorians in later Treks doesn't mean they all ceased to exist, we just didn't have any stories that involved them.
One final point, about the Trek tech. This is a difficult issue. You'd write it off as stupidity, but it is difficult. Purely because there is technlogy now, in the 21st century, that is more advanced than what Kirk had in his Trek. So aside from the purely cosmetic nature of things looking newer now, the Enterprise writers have to strike the balance between looking right now, and then blending towards Kirk's time. I think they've done this with flip communications, a lot of use of shuttles etc. I think they've lost some of the good things, like Hoshi's translating (nice to see that back recently), but really it's not the story. The story is about Enterprise being alone, and Archer really showing the first signs of the UFP recently. Shran came to help him.. to me that said so much. He's organised the Aboreals, Aquatics and Humanoid Xindi as well as getting Shran's help... he's already showing the great signs of bringing the UFP together.
I think season three has been great. I think some of the best Trek has been recently. I think the ending of the final episode was daft, boring and just... bad. But that doesn't mean I have to put up with all this other nonsense.
It's fucking Star Trek! Stop watching it then. You hate B&B with such revulsion that you honestly seem to believe they're going out of their way to destroy Trek, yet you still watch it. Don't.
colonyearth... wow... your anti-Berman and Braga marches go to new heights of ignorance.
Where on earth do I start. Again.
You blather about "Archer was key in the formation of the Federation? The Federation forms at least twenty years too early, BEFORE the Romulan War?"
Erm, what figures are you using?
Now, let us see. Enterprise is launched in 2151.
The Federation is formed in 2161.
Enterprise is in season three (2154) and Daniels says it will happen in about seven years time and... let me see... *gets out his calculator* 2154 + 7 = 2161.
ARGH!!! Berman and Braga evil bastards. Out of their way to wreck Trek. WRECK IT I SAY! They get up out of bed in the morning and go "ARGH! LET'S WRECK TREK. Let's not just violate continuity by chance, let's DO IT ON PURPOSE. Because we're evil. Yarrrgh!"
And for the record, the Earth-Romulan war starts in 2156. Before 2161.
Then you go on to: "I mean all of these events and not ONE mention in later shows about Archer or Enterprise or Xindi or, well, any of it." Well, it's a prequel... what else can they do? Go back and write episodes that have already been done? I admit that it's slightly far fetched in a sense, that Archer isn't mentioned in anything until Nemesis, but that's a bit of creative license that can be avoided.
Having said that, what do you know about the formation of the Federation from all the other Treks? Did they just meet in a pub one day and decide to form one?
There will be events that led to things like the birth of the Federation, it's just they've never been delved into. If they didn't mention much in previous Treks, we should asuming it's boring and a story not worth repeating? There's hundreds of planets in the UFP in later years. Do you know them all? I find it easy to believe there's tonnes of stories that we've not heard about.
Conversely that we didn't see the Andorians in later Treks doesn't mean they all ceased to exist, we just didn't have any stories that involved them.
One final point, about the Trek tech. This is a difficult issue. You'd write it off as stupidity, but it is difficult. Purely because there is technlogy now, in the 21st century, that is more advanced than what Kirk had in his Trek. So aside from the purely cosmetic nature of things looking newer now, the Enterprise writers have to strike the balance between looking right now, and then blending towards Kirk's time. I think they've done this with flip communications, a lot of use of shuttles etc. I think they've lost some of the good things, like Hoshi's translating (nice to see that back recently), but really it's not the story. The story is about Enterprise being alone, and Archer really showing the first signs of the UFP recently. Shran came to help him.. to me that said so much. He's organised the Aboreals, Aquatics and Humanoid Xindi as well as getting Shran's help... he's already showing the great signs of bringing the UFP together.
I think season three has been great. I think some of the best Trek has been recently. I think the ending of the final episode was daft, boring and just... bad. But that doesn't mean I have to put up with all this other nonsense.
It's fucking Star Trek! Stop watching it then. You hate B&B with such revulsion that you honestly seem to believe they're going out of their way to destroy Trek, yet you still watch it. Don't.
colonyearth
Regular
Re: Enterprise: \"Countdown\"
Antony,
I don't appreciate the FUCKING rant and very personal attack! I was stating my views and opinions, you attacked.
Fuck you back and I will never respond to you or such ignorance and rudeness again.
Where the fuck do you get off?!
Antony,
I don't appreciate the FUCKING rant and very personal attack! I was stating my views and opinions, you attacked.
Fuck you back and I will never respond to you or such ignorance and rudeness again.
Where the fuck do you get off?!
Re: Enterprise: \"Countdown\"
Oh CE... you're just funny.
Yeah, my post is heated and it wasn't pussy footing about, but I wasn't attacking you. Trust me you'd know if I was attacking you. I was just blowing your comments out of the water IMHO.
Your response should be countering my points, or understanding where you want wrong. But if you want boo hoo and cry in the corner, be my guest.
Yeah it may be your opinion, but as Dilbert said "Since when is ignorance a point of view?"
Saying they want to destroy Trek is just nonsense and you know it. Really, even those who hate B&B and Trek wouldn't say in their right mind they're going out of their way to defile it on purpose. Your constant Berman and Braga rants go on and on in the same nature, but you don't give us facts!
You said they got the dates wrong. I want to know how they got them wrong. I love a debate, fire away, tell us the numbers. I've crticised them before, and I said I didn't like the ending of the epsiode (that is opinion). And I will happily back you up on things they've fucked up if you give details.
If your comments can't stand up to any scrutiny, don't post them.
Anyone else care to comment on CE's or my points regarding the facts? Not opinions on whether it's good or not, that's opinion, I'm interested in quantifiable things.
Oh CE... you're just funny.
Yeah, my post is heated and it wasn't pussy footing about, but I wasn't attacking you. Trust me you'd know if I was attacking you. I was just blowing your comments out of the water IMHO.
Your response should be countering my points, or understanding where you want wrong. But if you want boo hoo and cry in the corner, be my guest.
Yeah it may be your opinion, but as Dilbert said "Since when is ignorance a point of view?"
Saying they want to destroy Trek is just nonsense and you know it. Really, even those who hate B&B and Trek wouldn't say in their right mind they're going out of their way to defile it on purpose. Your constant Berman and Braga rants go on and on in the same nature, but you don't give us facts!
You said they got the dates wrong. I want to know how they got them wrong. I love a debate, fire away, tell us the numbers. I've crticised them before, and I said I didn't like the ending of the epsiode (that is opinion). And I will happily back you up on things they've fucked up if you give details.
If your comments can't stand up to any scrutiny, don't post them.
Anyone else care to comment on CE's or my points regarding the facts? Not opinions on whether it's good or not, that's opinion, I'm interested in quantifiable things.
colonyearth
Regular
Re: Enterprise: \"Countdown\"
To me, this was calling me ignorant...I will NOT tolerate that. I am getting my info based on recent memory of pulling out my chronology...and I never said the Romulan War was where you say I said it was. I said the Romulan War should be occurring at the time ENT. is supposedly set. According to the chronology, the RW took place way before we even met the Klingons...the Federation formed AFTER we met the Klingons. Again, I will have to pull out my chronology to double-check my figures, but I did recently pull it out (I think it was the last time I attempted to suffer through ENT. about 4 or 5 eps into S3) and looked at these precise events.
I am angry because I love Trek, I grew up watching it and loving it...it was part of the inspiration for me to study film and dream of making great movies and tell great stories. Forgive me if it upsets me to be insulted by the current people ruining it. It being something I love, then yes, I get angry and hate to see someone destroying it, especially when I can so clearly see so many missed opportunities and so many blatant violations of continuity that basically insinuate that the Trek I loved is less than it was. TOS was a 1000X better show than ENT, hands down. And there are ways to stay true to Kirk and his tech and still make ENT. good and exciting...it's called intelligent, imaginative writing. Gee, I can think up ways to do it that make great sense and are cool. Why can't TPTB? Because they prefer lazy writing..."Aww, I don't have to follow continuity and history...who cares...it's easier this way." You can make excuses for it all you want, but I don't care for lame excuses and bad writing...I would prefer to have my cake and eat it too.
And as for watching it...I had quit, but people like you convinced me to tune in again, saying it was better. Well, that's the last time I trust you. I tuned in for the last two eps...and it enraged me again, actually it just pisses me off and frustrates me because I can see all the missed opportunities and have to watch something I loved slowly dissolve into something horrible.
I am by no means alone in my feelings and thoughts...not only on here but throughout the world apparently since the ratings and overall ST following has dwindled under B&B's reign. And yes, there has been an almost "thumb your nose at it" attitude that has come from B&B's office, especially since Nimoy walked out of Berman's office prior to GENERATIONS.
I can see just how good ENT. and ST can still be...ways to win back the fans. It's frustrating that Paramount hasn't fired these men by now. I'm not alone in that major entertainment magazines have even called for Berman's termination or for him to resign.
I must not be the only one upset here, Antony, so quit making it seem as if I am. Berman is the man in charge, given what he's done to Trek, he should pay the price for it, accept some responsibility for it.
Your post was not a return argument, it was aiming at me directly, speaking down to me as if I were some ignorant, immature dumbass...which I've told you before (in the last Trek thread) that I will not stand for.
I will look up my facts...but where are you getting yours? I hope not from "facts" laid out in the current incarnations.
CE
To me, this was calling me ignorant...I will NOT tolerate that. I am getting my info based on recent memory of pulling out my chronology...and I never said the Romulan War was where you say I said it was. I said the Romulan War should be occurring at the time ENT. is supposedly set. According to the chronology, the RW took place way before we even met the Klingons...the Federation formed AFTER we met the Klingons. Again, I will have to pull out my chronology to double-check my figures, but I did recently pull it out (I think it was the last time I attempted to suffer through ENT. about 4 or 5 eps into S3) and looked at these precise events.
I am angry because I love Trek, I grew up watching it and loving it...it was part of the inspiration for me to study film and dream of making great movies and tell great stories. Forgive me if it upsets me to be insulted by the current people ruining it. It being something I love, then yes, I get angry and hate to see someone destroying it, especially when I can so clearly see so many missed opportunities and so many blatant violations of continuity that basically insinuate that the Trek I loved is less than it was. TOS was a 1000X better show than ENT, hands down. And there are ways to stay true to Kirk and his tech and still make ENT. good and exciting...it's called intelligent, imaginative writing. Gee, I can think up ways to do it that make great sense and are cool. Why can't TPTB? Because they prefer lazy writing..."Aww, I don't have to follow continuity and history...who cares...it's easier this way." You can make excuses for it all you want, but I don't care for lame excuses and bad writing...I would prefer to have my cake and eat it too.
And as for watching it...I had quit, but people like you convinced me to tune in again, saying it was better. Well, that's the last time I trust you. I tuned in for the last two eps...and it enraged me again, actually it just pisses me off and frustrates me because I can see all the missed opportunities and have to watch something I loved slowly dissolve into something horrible.
I am by no means alone in my feelings and thoughts...not only on here but throughout the world apparently since the ratings and overall ST following has dwindled under B&B's reign. And yes, there has been an almost "thumb your nose at it" attitude that has come from B&B's office, especially since Nimoy walked out of Berman's office prior to GENERATIONS.
I can see just how good ENT. and ST can still be...ways to win back the fans. It's frustrating that Paramount hasn't fired these men by now. I'm not alone in that major entertainment magazines have even called for Berman's termination or for him to resign.
I must not be the only one upset here, Antony, so quit making it seem as if I am. Berman is the man in charge, given what he's done to Trek, he should pay the price for it, accept some responsibility for it.
Your post was not a return argument, it was aiming at me directly, speaking down to me as if I were some ignorant, immature dumbass...which I've told you before (in the last Trek thread) that I will not stand for.
I will look up my facts...but where are you getting yours? I hope not from "facts" laid out in the current incarnations.
CE
colonyearth
Regular
Re: Enterprise: \"Countdown\"
I can't type for long so I will state that I did look up the events in the chronology. If indeed Enterprise is launched according to the date you gave, then yes, the Federation (according to the chronology) did form in 2161, about ten years later.
Also according to the chronology, the Romulan War should begin in the next 3 or 4 years and end about a year prior to the Federation forming.
However, the first contact with the Klingons (this is where my memory fucked up on me) did not occur until 2218, some 47 years later (I thought I recalled that the Federation formed after these events, not the RW).
You were right about the dates, but I still maintain that this whole temporal cold war/Xindi thing is a story that's way too big to have never been mentioned later. Why create a totally new major event, new aliens we don't hear about later, etc., when you have a rich and vast history to draw upon? This is what I mean when I say they should've and could've stayed true to what was known and expound upon that rather than create new events that are so obviously missing from all earlier (later in time) series and films. Stop making new all the time and stop the time travel shit and expound on what little we DO know.
As for tech...some things I can accept, some I have problems with...like phasers when we know in Pike's time that they were still using Lasers. Padds when Kirk used something a bit bigger and bulkier. And tricorders that are so tiny when Kirk's were larger. This last one could so easily have been explained, but instead they took the easy way out...same with the phasers. You don't have to ignore technicological advancements since TOS was made, but you can at least attempt to fit it all in in some imaginative way rather than just say, "oh Kirk's time and look was just archaic and we'll ignore it." I mean they even use the same sound FX and everything. This was a great opportunity to change things, sounds, looks and give Trek an earlier and grittier feel. Instead, it looks and sounds like it could almost belong in Picard's time. A major missed opportunity. And the ship? Looks way too advanced and futuristic (more like it belongs in Picard's time almost), when we know from the chronology and other sources that the Daedalus Class was the ship of the time...which BTW we've yet to see, even though it was in use by Earth at the time as the standard starship.
As for B&B, my anger at them is not to insinuate that they are setting out to perposefully destroy continuity and Trek...but they do have an attitude that Kirk's time and look is irrelevant and that they can do what they want, the fans will blindly follow. It's this attitude that makes me not like them.
They have little to no respect for the fans or the history. Braga once called the fans stupid (and paid a heavy price for it in the press). Berman has called the timeline and adherence to it irrelevant, and stated he will do what he wishes. It's like his ego is huge.
If he wants to have carte blanche in story and creation, then he should create his own SF show outside the ST universe. But as long as your playing in a beloved creation...at least TRY to create threads that connect past and future...TRY to be true to continuity and history...don't just ignore them when it's inconvenient...that is what I call lazy writing.
It's frustrating since I can see how easily he could've done it all right, or could still fix it all and set up Kirk's time and look and tech perfectly. Unfortunately, after years of experience with how Bermane does things, and his lack of imagination in matters, I know that once again..."Like a poor marksman, [he'll] keep missing the target."
It's simply sad to me is all...something I love is being wasted, pissed away, and altered to fit one or two men's egos. I just cannot fathom why Paramount has not taken him out of control yet...given the massive drop in fan support over the last 10 yrs.
Any coach who's numbers continued to fall like that would've been fired long ago.
I don't want to argue...and as you see I will admit when my facts (which I remind you were from memory whilst at work) are wrong.
They're still not telling the right story, and they're still willing to ignore canon and continuity whenever it suits them. That is just a recipe for disaster in the long run, especially when you have a mass, loyal, and very knowledgeable fan base (that you ignore and insult from time to time).
We can discuss this more tomorrow...I have dinner plans with my husband
Just please, Antony, don't refer to me as ignorant...that is not debate or discussion. If my facts are incorrect, in future, please feel free to kindly correct me.
As for opinion, B&B are the problem in my opinion...which is based on years of observation and reading interviews with them and articles about them.
A captain is responsible....remember that.
CE
I can't type for long so I will state that I did look up the events in the chronology. If indeed Enterprise is launched according to the date you gave, then yes, the Federation (according to the chronology) did form in 2161, about ten years later.
Also according to the chronology, the Romulan War should begin in the next 3 or 4 years and end about a year prior to the Federation forming.
However, the first contact with the Klingons (this is where my memory fucked up on me) did not occur until 2218, some 47 years later (I thought I recalled that the Federation formed after these events, not the RW).
You were right about the dates, but I still maintain that this whole temporal cold war/Xindi thing is a story that's way too big to have never been mentioned later. Why create a totally new major event, new aliens we don't hear about later, etc., when you have a rich and vast history to draw upon? This is what I mean when I say they should've and could've stayed true to what was known and expound upon that rather than create new events that are so obviously missing from all earlier (later in time) series and films. Stop making new all the time and stop the time travel shit and expound on what little we DO know.
As for tech...some things I can accept, some I have problems with...like phasers when we know in Pike's time that they were still using Lasers. Padds when Kirk used something a bit bigger and bulkier. And tricorders that are so tiny when Kirk's were larger. This last one could so easily have been explained, but instead they took the easy way out...same with the phasers. You don't have to ignore technicological advancements since TOS was made, but you can at least attempt to fit it all in in some imaginative way rather than just say, "oh Kirk's time and look was just archaic and we'll ignore it." I mean they even use the same sound FX and everything. This was a great opportunity to change things, sounds, looks and give Trek an earlier and grittier feel. Instead, it looks and sounds like it could almost belong in Picard's time. A major missed opportunity. And the ship? Looks way too advanced and futuristic (more like it belongs in Picard's time almost), when we know from the chronology and other sources that the Daedalus Class was the ship of the time...which BTW we've yet to see, even though it was in use by Earth at the time as the standard starship.
As for B&B, my anger at them is not to insinuate that they are setting out to perposefully destroy continuity and Trek...but they do have an attitude that Kirk's time and look is irrelevant and that they can do what they want, the fans will blindly follow. It's this attitude that makes me not like them.
They have little to no respect for the fans or the history. Braga once called the fans stupid (and paid a heavy price for it in the press). Berman has called the timeline and adherence to it irrelevant, and stated he will do what he wishes. It's like his ego is huge.
If he wants to have carte blanche in story and creation, then he should create his own SF show outside the ST universe. But as long as your playing in a beloved creation...at least TRY to create threads that connect past and future...TRY to be true to continuity and history...don't just ignore them when it's inconvenient...that is what I call lazy writing.
It's frustrating since I can see how easily he could've done it all right, or could still fix it all and set up Kirk's time and look and tech perfectly. Unfortunately, after years of experience with how Bermane does things, and his lack of imagination in matters, I know that once again..."Like a poor marksman, [he'll] keep missing the target."
It's simply sad to me is all...something I love is being wasted, pissed away, and altered to fit one or two men's egos. I just cannot fathom why Paramount has not taken him out of control yet...given the massive drop in fan support over the last 10 yrs.
Any coach who's numbers continued to fall like that would've been fired long ago.
I don't want to argue...and as you see I will admit when my facts (which I remind you were from memory whilst at work) are wrong.
They're still not telling the right story, and they're still willing to ignore canon and continuity whenever it suits them. That is just a recipe for disaster in the long run, especially when you have a mass, loyal, and very knowledgeable fan base (that you ignore and insult from time to time).
We can discuss this more tomorrow...I have dinner plans with my husband
Just please, Antony, don't refer to me as ignorant...that is not debate or discussion. If my facts are incorrect, in future, please feel free to kindly correct me.
As for opinion, B&B are the problem in my opinion...which is based on years of observation and reading interviews with them and articles about them.
A captain is responsible....remember that.
CE
Re: Enterprise: \"Countdown\"
Brief reply...
Yes, I did say ignorance. And I think it is ignorant to say dates are wrong when they don't seem to be. Facts.
I believe the Chronology theorised when the date was... I'm not sure if it's 100% official when it was.
Berman has been with Trek while the ratings have gone down, but let us not forget he was with Trek when it reached its height and when Gene was gone.
Let us not forget that Gene played with continuity too... what about Klingons with ridges for one?
B&B have certainly not ignored TOS, how can you even say that? We have Andorians, Terralites, flip communicators, the talk of "the needs of the one", Vulcans not wanting to interbreed, the early formation of mind melds, the original colours, the first signs of the Federation etc. etc.
Tricorder sizes... so you honestly think they should do one that is bigger than Kirk's time when you can get phones that are just a couple of inches small? It would look pathetic by even today's standards. They're not out to create a parody that looks as if it was made in the 60s, they just have to try and merge modern look with less advanced tech.
You cannot say what B&B's attitude is. We do not know it.
The bridge was a bit too mordern for my liking, but it's hard to meld really, creating a prequel to a show in the 60s. All I can say is they seem to have gone for a very metal, submarine feel. That leads into the more colours and whites of the Federation.
More later.
Brief reply...
Yes, I did say ignorance. And I think it is ignorant to say dates are wrong when they don't seem to be. Facts.
I believe the Chronology theorised when the date was... I'm not sure if it's 100% official when it was.
Berman has been with Trek while the ratings have gone down, but let us not forget he was with Trek when it reached its height and when Gene was gone.
Let us not forget that Gene played with continuity too... what about Klingons with ridges for one?
B&B have certainly not ignored TOS, how can you even say that? We have Andorians, Terralites, flip communicators, the talk of "the needs of the one", Vulcans not wanting to interbreed, the early formation of mind melds, the original colours, the first signs of the Federation etc. etc.
Tricorder sizes... so you honestly think they should do one that is bigger than Kirk's time when you can get phones that are just a couple of inches small? It would look pathetic by even today's standards. They're not out to create a parody that looks as if it was made in the 60s, they just have to try and merge modern look with less advanced tech.
You cannot say what B&B's attitude is. We do not know it.
The bridge was a bit too mordern for my liking, but it's hard to meld really, creating a prequel to a show in the 60s. All I can say is they seem to have gone for a very metal, submarine feel. That leads into the more colours and whites of the Federation.
More later.
GKarsEye
Regular
Re: Enterprise: \"Countdown\"
Ok, this question may out-geek you all, but is that really continuity? It's just an appearance thing. I always used continuity when referring to story.
Anyway, I don't care about the look. They can give Vulcans uinicorn horns for all I care. Enterprise just doesn't "feel" right. There's just too much unintentional corniness in it- like evil sphere builders. Ooh, they make balls, how scary. I'm gonna build a cone, that'll really blow their mind. And I can't help but giggle whenever someone says "insectoid" or "reptillian." What is this, some 50s B horror flick?
Worst of all, it all has this settled, rhythmic feel to it, no matter what the plot is. It's hard to describe- it's like no matter what goes on, it's all expected. When blow up earth, it's like, "Ok, so now they blow up earth, blah blah." You could say it's just me, and maybe it is, but I was really looking forward to the series when it started. I was all hyped up about it.
Ok, this question may out-geek you all, but is that really continuity? It's just an appearance thing. I always used continuity when referring to story.
Anyway, I don't care about the look. They can give Vulcans uinicorn horns for all I care. Enterprise just doesn't "feel" right. There's just too much unintentional corniness in it- like evil sphere builders. Ooh, they make balls, how scary. I'm gonna build a cone, that'll really blow their mind. And I can't help but giggle whenever someone says "insectoid" or "reptillian." What is this, some 50s B horror flick?
Worst of all, it all has this settled, rhythmic feel to it, no matter what the plot is. It's hard to describe- it's like no matter what goes on, it's all expected. When blow up earth, it's like, "Ok, so now they blow up earth, blah blah." You could say it's just me, and maybe it is, but I was really looking forward to the series when it started. I was all hyped up about it.
hypatia
Regular
Re: Enterprise: \"Countdown\"
I'm slowly coming to the conclusion that no one who does watch and enjoy Enterprise is willing to isolate for me their favorite episodes of this season. I truly would like to see what current fans consider the best episodes before I decide whether or not to turn to UPN next Fall on Wednesday nights. Or wait, it'll be Friday nights from now on, won't it?
I'm slowly coming to the conclusion that no one who does watch and enjoy Enterprise is willing to isolate for me their favorite episodes of this season. I truly would like to see what current fans consider the best episodes before I decide whether or not to turn to UPN next Fall on Wednesday nights. Or wait, it'll be Friday nights from now on, won't it?
colonyearth
Regular
Re: Enterprise: \"Countdown\"
Thank you GKE. I agree.
And Antony, just don't bother. You're obviously one of those blind Bermanites who don't care as long as it had Trek stamped on it...it's people like you that have kept him in charge...giddy for any little Berman-carrot he throws you.
Well, I'm not blind, and I'm not alone in my frustration and anger over what he's done to Trek. Hell, even members of the TNG cast have gone over his head. He needs to go, Trek needs new vision and leadership... someone who has a love and respect for where it's been as well as where it's going.
Sorry...don't bother reponding...since I will not debate colors with a blind man.
I am through with this thread...and if you EVER call me ignorant or speak down to me as you did again, or insinuate such...then I will leave this forum. To insult someone is not debate...and you seem to have a bad habit of attacking and flaming people and never apologizing.
I can find places where people talk and would prefer to do so rather be insulted. I have admitted my mistaken facts, and corrected them and apologized, yet still you attack.
Good day...and, again, I am done with this thread.
CE
Thank you GKE. I agree.
And Antony, just don't bother. You're obviously one of those blind Bermanites who don't care as long as it had Trek stamped on it...it's people like you that have kept him in charge...giddy for any little Berman-carrot he throws you.
Well, I'm not blind, and I'm not alone in my frustration and anger over what he's done to Trek. Hell, even members of the TNG cast have gone over his head. He needs to go, Trek needs new vision and leadership... someone who has a love and respect for where it's been as well as where it's going.
Sorry...don't bother reponding...since I will not debate colors with a blind man.
I am through with this thread...and if you EVER call me ignorant or speak down to me as you did again, or insinuate such...then I will leave this forum. To insult someone is not debate...and you seem to have a bad habit of attacking and flaming people and never apologizing.
I can find places where people talk and would prefer to do so rather be insulted. I have admitted my mistaken facts, and corrected them and apologized, yet still you attack.
Good day...and, again, I am done with this thread.
CE
colonyearth
Regular
Re: Enterprise: \"Countdown\"
UM, just to clear something up here...where in God's name did you get the impression that I religiously watch everything he puts out?
Uh? I felt TNG was loosing ground by as early as S5; I abandoned DS9 about third season, and then came back for the final season but was soarly unimpressed; I tried to give Voyager a chance but gave up on that...only tuning in for the last half a season I think just to say I saw how it ended, but was again unimpressed really; I tried to watch Enterprise but have given up on that one as well.
I am not a religious watcher of the last three Trek incarnations and have felt they were sad, lackluster imitations of other people's great work and vision. I have felt that with perhaps the exception of NEMISIS, the films Berman has been in charge of putting out have been poorly done and find it ashame that the poor TNG cast never really got a great film in their run.
I have never been a Berman supporter, especially since the articles I've read where he and Braga talk down to the fans...which was as far back as GENERATIONS.
I have tried to give him chance after chance...not because of any love for him or what he's done to Trek, but because deep down I love Trek and remember it as being something I grew up with and cared for dearly...so I return occasionally in hopes that it will get better, that someone will finally do something right, but each and every time I'm let down.
I'm not the one who attacked anyone here...so why am I being attacked? I simply told Ant. that I didn't appreciate being called ingorant and it being insinuated that I'm some moron. If you have a problem with my facts or find that they are incorrect as stated, then by all means correct me, but do not attack me.
Just setting the record straight, since somehow you folks got the impression that I followed Berman's Trek blindly...no...nor Berman. Far from it. Please, make sure you read what I say before responding or you would've gotten that I do not watch Berman's material religiously and have been a stanch critic of his work in Trek (as have millions of others out there).
GKE, if I've gotten the wrong impression from Ant, it's because that is the impression he's given me. And again, I do not appreciate being personally attacked when he could well have corrected me and continued the debate. As for his attitude on Trek, I've seen it in others and there is no getting past it. Some people are more willing to excuse certain things and reason them away than I (and apparently most other fans) am willing to do.
I see Trek suffering from lack of imagination, poor character developement, bad and unimaginative writing and little to no respect for continuity and universe histrionics, much less a since of threading the universe together. (For great examples of Trek done right and on the nose with respect to characters, excitement, drama, relationships, character accuracy, respect for history and continuity and drawing threads that connect the past to the present to the future, read Shatner's ST novels...now that's good Trek and proof that it can still be done.)
If Ant. wants to feel that way, that's fine...all I said is that it is such a mentality that keeps Berman in control...and as long as he is...nothing will change or get better and Trek will continue to decline until it's gone...probably for a very long time (or least until Berman can be properly seperated from it and/or someone with new vision and passion steps up to the helm).
CE
PS: Please stop the personal attacks on my character and intelligence...they are uncalled for. All of you.
UM, just to clear something up here...where in God's name did you get the impression that I religiously watch everything he puts out?
Uh? I felt TNG was loosing ground by as early as S5; I abandoned DS9 about third season, and then came back for the final season but was soarly unimpressed; I tried to give Voyager a chance but gave up on that...only tuning in for the last half a season I think just to say I saw how it ended, but was again unimpressed really; I tried to watch Enterprise but have given up on that one as well.
I am not a religious watcher of the last three Trek incarnations and have felt they were sad, lackluster imitations of other people's great work and vision. I have felt that with perhaps the exception of NEMISIS, the films Berman has been in charge of putting out have been poorly done and find it ashame that the poor TNG cast never really got a great film in their run.
I have never been a Berman supporter, especially since the articles I've read where he and Braga talk down to the fans...which was as far back as GENERATIONS.
I have tried to give him chance after chance...not because of any love for him or what he's done to Trek, but because deep down I love Trek and remember it as being something I grew up with and cared for dearly...so I return occasionally in hopes that it will get better, that someone will finally do something right, but each and every time I'm let down.
I'm not the one who attacked anyone here...so why am I being attacked? I simply told Ant. that I didn't appreciate being called ingorant and it being insinuated that I'm some moron. If you have a problem with my facts or find that they are incorrect as stated, then by all means correct me, but do not attack me.
Just setting the record straight, since somehow you folks got the impression that I followed Berman's Trek blindly...no...nor Berman. Far from it. Please, make sure you read what I say before responding or you would've gotten that I do not watch Berman's material religiously and have been a stanch critic of his work in Trek (as have millions of others out there).
GKE, if I've gotten the wrong impression from Ant, it's because that is the impression he's given me. And again, I do not appreciate being personally attacked when he could well have corrected me and continued the debate. As for his attitude on Trek, I've seen it in others and there is no getting past it. Some people are more willing to excuse certain things and reason them away than I (and apparently most other fans) am willing to do.
I see Trek suffering from lack of imagination, poor character developement, bad and unimaginative writing and little to no respect for continuity and universe histrionics, much less a since of threading the universe together. (For great examples of Trek done right and on the nose with respect to characters, excitement, drama, relationships, character accuracy, respect for history and continuity and drawing threads that connect the past to the present to the future, read Shatner's ST novels...now that's good Trek and proof that it can still be done.)
If Ant. wants to feel that way, that's fine...all I said is that it is such a mentality that keeps Berman in control...and as long as he is...nothing will change or get better and Trek will continue to decline until it's gone...probably for a very long time (or least until Berman can be properly seperated from it and/or someone with new vision and passion steps up to the helm).
CE
PS: Please stop the personal attacks on my character and intelligence...they are uncalled for. All of you.
Re: Enterprise: \"Countdown\"
From you. How can you argue that Breman is ruining everything that Trek stands for if you aren't watching what he's putting out? If you intend on backing up that claim with facts, then logically you would have to watch it fairly regularly. If you don't watch it regularly, then you can't back up any of your claims. And if you do watch it regularly, then you're contributing to the very problem that you claim to have, namely Berman. You're damned if you do and you're damned if you don't.
How on Earth can you make that claim when you abandoned DS9 after the third season? For all you know, the remaining seasons may have surpassed anything Trek had ever done. Same goes for the other shows you abandoned. You don't know if they remained "sad, lackluster imitations" or not, so you really shouldn't make claims about "the whole," because you know nothing about it. All you're doing is taking pieces of a puzzle and assuming that you're getting the whole picture.
I'm not attacking anyone, I'm just making an observation.
