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EpDis: Grey 17 Is Missing
- Thread starter vacantlook
- Start date
Joseph DeMartino
Moderator
Damn! I hate coming into a thread after the mistaken/embarassing/offensive post has been removed. It always makes me wonder what I missed.
Shaal Mayan
Regular
C the appearance of Neroon is the only thing that makes this episode watchable.The B story was laughable.
vacantlook
Super Moderator
Yeah, I agree. It wouldn't make too much sense for the episode to receive its title from the B-story, so Garibaldi's romp would have to be the A-story. It's just that Garibaldi's romp is so bland and groan-provoking that it feels like it should be the B-story.
Joseph DeMartino
Moderator
I think in this case the Garibaldi/Zarg thing was the "B" story, the Neroon/Marcus thing was the "C" story and the episode's real problem was that it didn't have an "A" story. Of course the Zarg part was made that much worse by the truly lousy rubber suit (one of the few time's B5's limited budget really hurt a story by undermining it to the point of distraction) and JMS's apparent belief the early firearms were steam-powered.
Still for me, in the form of the DVD, "Grey 17" is a great episode because I simply fast-forward through everything that doesn't involve Marcus, Delenn or Neroon. (In fact, I'm thinking of off-loading the ep to my PC and re-editing it into "'Grey 17 is Missing' is Missing".)
Regards,
Joe
Of course the Zarg part was made that much worse by the truly lousy rubber suit (one of the few time's B5's limited budget really hurt a story by undermining it to the point of distraction) and JMS's apparent belief the early firearms were steam-powered. Still for me, in the form of the DVD, "Grey 17" is a great episode because I simply fast-forward through everything that doesn't involve Marcus, Delenn or Neroon. (In fact, I'm thinking of off-loading the ep to my PC and re-editing it into "'Grey 17 is Missing' is Missing".
)Regards,
Joe
Shaal Mayan
Regular
Oh boy did I goof
KoshN
Super Moderator
????
I keep trying to forget Byron, but people keep bringing him up! <Gag>
Aldous Gajic and Jinxo weren't annoying. Lorien certainly wasn't.
Annoying:
Byron (and any other character with RAD's voice)
Shon, M'Ola and Tharg (Believers - the kid and his parents)
Lianna Kemmer (Survivers)
Elizabeth Sheridan (Revelations)
Forell and Phillipe (Lines of Communications)
Religious #1 ( http://www.midwinter.com/lurk/gif/079/r4.jpeg from "Rumors Bargains
and Lies" - the guy who's talking)
...and several of the commentators in The Deconstruction of Falling Stars, although they were <u>supposed</u> to be annoying.
Henry Ellis (the carbon copy of James Carville)
Dr. Tashaki (the snarky asian famale commentator - She could play Herazade <Ptui!> any day! Perfect casting.
)Dr. William Exeter (the one who Delenn made ashamed of himself, along with Tashaki.)
Sindell (the head of the Ranger Council) - To Live and Die in Starlight (TLaDiS)
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Elipsis
Regular
Listening to the religious zealot glasses face guy repeat the same thing over and over again was fucking terrible. The perfect predator was useless (slow and not very bright - lumbering into the same steam pipe twice). That was a C- story.
On the other hand, I give the story of Marcus and Naroon a solid A. Great dialog and I contest that they deliberately scare you by playing very similar music to the "Kosh is dying" scene for part of Marcus's fight, making you think that this might be Marcus's last stop.
Plus the continuity from War Without End was satisfying.
Two observations:
1) Naroon is excellent at coming in to an episode like a total douche and leaving as an OK guy.
2) Marcus's fighting style consists primarily of facing the wrong way during the fight. Not very effective in my opinion... I suppose that's why he was beaten whereas Sinclair succeeded, lol.
Final grade = B.
On the other hand, I give the story of Marcus and Naroon a solid A. Great dialog and I contest that they deliberately scare you by playing very similar music to the "Kosh is dying" scene for part of Marcus's fight, making you think that this might be Marcus's last stop.
Plus the continuity from War Without End was satisfying.
Two observations:
1) Naroon is excellent at coming in to an episode like a total douche and leaving as an OK guy.
2) Marcus's fighting style consists primarily of facing the wrong way during the fight. Not very effective in my opinion... I suppose that's why he was beaten whereas Sinclair succeeded, lol.
Final grade = B.
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Truth_Seeker
Regular
My opinion is also torn apart by the two stories.
The Marcus/ Neroon story is one of the best in the series so I give it an A+.
Garibaldi's story could have been done much better.Jeremiah and his fellows obviously were some kind of a religious group dedicated to the Minbari concept of the Universe.A great story could come out of this because we know that Garibaldi is not a very religious person.He said many times that he does not believe in souls and one of the main concepts of Minbari religion is the reincarnation.But instead of a wise person to "elighten" Garibaldi we see the nearly crazed and confused Jeremiah.A good idea but a bad realization.Not to mention the "favourite" Zarg monent.So this story gets a C.
Question:How many Zargs does it take to spoil a B5 good episode?
Answer:Just one if he moves his hands the right way;-)
The Marcus/ Neroon story is one of the best in the series so I give it an A+.
Garibaldi's story could have been done much better.Jeremiah and his fellows obviously were some kind of a religious group dedicated to the Minbari concept of the Universe.A great story could come out of this because we know that Garibaldi is not a very religious person.He said many times that he does not believe in souls and one of the main concepts of Minbari religion is the reincarnation.But instead of a wise person to "elighten" Garibaldi we see the nearly crazed and confused Jeremiah.A good idea but a bad realization.Not to mention the "favourite" Zarg monent.So this story gets a C.
Question:How many Zargs does it take to spoil a B5 good episode?
Answer:Just one if he moves his hands the right way;-)
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Truth_Seeker
Regular
I want to object strongly to the way Garibaldi treated the Zarg in this episode
First, the friendly Zarg was probably just coming to say "Hi" and to offer Garibaldi and Jeremiah a piece of what's left of the maintenance guy.The poor fellow was waving his hands as a sign that he's happy to see them.But the cruel and pitiless Garibaldi just shot this vulnerable and unarmed creature without warning.He didn't even read his rights and had no evidence or witnesses that the innocent Zarg who was just hanging around did anything wrong.I simply call this police harassment.
First, the friendly Zarg was probably just coming to say "Hi" and to offer Garibaldi and Jeremiah a piece of what's left of the maintenance guy.The poor fellow was waving his hands as a sign that he's happy to see them.But the cruel and pitiless Garibaldi just shot this vulnerable and unarmed creature without warning.He didn't even read his rights and had no evidence or witnesses that the innocent Zarg who was just hanging around did anything wrong.I simply call this police harassment.
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Estelyn
Regular
Well, I certainly can't and won't argue with the general consensus regarding this episode - the "A" story is not one of B5's finest moments! It really feels way too small, not nearly significant enough to give the show its title. The danger does not feel big enough, and the mystery of the lost level falls flat.
The arc aspect, with Delenn's inauguration as Ranger One, is much weightier. Neroon's character development, Marcus' bravery, the dialogues between the two of them - including especially the final one in Med Lab! - are top notch. The cutting back and forth between the staid ceremony and the dramatic fight is great, as is the lighting effect with the fans in the background.
Seeing a very proud Minbari admitting to having learned a lesson from a human is a greater than life moment - though one could wish, of course, that Neroon would have continued to improve his character. He seems to fall back into old habits later on.
The arc aspect, with Delenn's inauguration as Ranger One, is much weightier. Neroon's character development, Marcus' bravery, the dialogues between the two of them - including especially the final one in Med Lab! - are top notch. The cutting back and forth between the staid ceremony and the dramatic fight is great, as is the lighting effect with the fans in the background.
Seeing a very proud Minbari admitting to having learned a lesson from a human is a greater than life moment - though one could wish, of course, that Neroon would have continued to improve his character. He seems to fall back into old habits later on.
Gave it an F. The Marcus/Delenn/Neroon parts simply were not terribly impressive to me and certainly not enough to overlook the "Grey 17" complete failure which seemed to take up 75% of the episode.
Edit: BTW, how many people realized that the technician who was killed before the opening credits is the guy from the show "Cold Case"(and one of UPS' commercials)? Must have been his very first on screen acting gig.
Edit: BTW, how many people realized that the technician who was killed before the opening credits is the guy from the show "Cold Case"(and one of UPS' commercials)? Must have been his very first on screen acting gig.
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Oh, I don't know. There is a certain scene in "Moments of Transition", and for the first time, he is questioning whether being Warrior Caste is all about killing
Sindatur
Regular
I think you have a point, the Rangers side of the story is awesome, and very important to the overall arc, but, with that title, when many think back on the episode, it draws up memories of "Oh, that's that awful "Freddy Kruger" episode", and folks who aren't obssesive about B5 as some og us, don't realize it's also got the awesome Rangers story in it.
