I introduced and watched the entire series with two different people on two separate occasions. They both liked the Zarg. I think Jeremiah's ramblings are interesting if you listen to the words - similiar to Minbari beliefs, but through the lens of someone who's not entirely sane. I love his line about not being ready to become one with the universe yet when Garibaldi confronts him about his preaching the sacrifice but not doing it. I definitely liked this episode overall.
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EpDis: Grey 17 Is Missing
- Thread starter vacantlook
- Start date
Lennier's Tears
Regular
Yea ... this episode. Half of it is solid, and fits thematically with the rest of Babylon 5. The other half is just .. weird.
For a while I thought that I just didn't GET it. I have been known to not get things, it doesn't seem like much of a stretch. And it seems like there's almost something there... That weird cult seems to be based on Minbari beliefs, this must be something to do with the Minbari war? The Zarg seems so laughable it can't be meant as a "real" thing ... I thought perhaps it was some kind of vision, dream, or metaphor .. But, no. Based on what I see here and on the Lurker's Guide, I guess it really was just a bad episode .. or, half episode, anyway. I'm vaguely reminded of that strange haunted house episode of the X Files, but that weirdness worked quite a bit better ... I do enjoy the meta humor of Robert Englund inspecting the scissor-like hands of the dead Zarg.
As for the Neroon story ... I think it's excellent. This is the Babylon 5 I know and love! The thing about it is ... Neroon has a very good point. He's clearly the antagonist here, and we all root for Delenn because we know and love her, and understand that she truly is trying to save the universe and all that. But she IS a religious zealot, as Neroon claims. She's building an army, all based on prophecy. That's quite alarming to an outsider. Of course we know that the prophecy was all based on real knowledge, but .. yea.
It feels very satisfying to see Marcus take on Neroon in defense of Delenn, and in doing so convince him that Delenn should indeed be the leader of the Rangers, but I do feel a bit uncomfortable with "We live for the One, we die for the One". It sounds cool and all, but no one is always right! Not even THE one
Of course I haven't undergone extensive training on Minbar, but I wouldn't lightly vow to die for someone, certainly not someone I didn't have a close personal relationship with. Most of the Rangers presumably barely know Ranger One.
But, anyway, I like that part a lot. I always like Neroon episodes. He's great.
A question: would the Den'Sha (guessing at the spelling here ) be something that is known to Minbari via legend only? If no Minbari has killed a Minbari in a thousand years, why is this still common knowledge? Is this some kind of cautionary tale? "In the Dark Days, when Minbari killed Minbari"?
For a while I thought that I just didn't GET it. I have been known to not get things, it doesn't seem like much of a stretch. And it seems like there's almost something there... That weird cult seems to be based on Minbari beliefs, this must be something to do with the Minbari war? The Zarg seems so laughable it can't be meant as a "real" thing ... I thought perhaps it was some kind of vision, dream, or metaphor .. But, no. Based on what I see here and on the Lurker's Guide, I guess it really was just a bad episode .. or, half episode, anyway. I'm vaguely reminded of that strange haunted house episode of the X Files, but that weirdness worked quite a bit better ... I do enjoy the meta humor of Robert Englund inspecting the scissor-like hands of the dead Zarg.
As for the Neroon story ... I think it's excellent. This is the Babylon 5 I know and love! The thing about it is ... Neroon has a very good point. He's clearly the antagonist here, and we all root for Delenn because we know and love her, and understand that she truly is trying to save the universe and all that. But she IS a religious zealot, as Neroon claims. She's building an army, all based on prophecy. That's quite alarming to an outsider. Of course we know that the prophecy was all based on real knowledge, but .. yea.
It feels very satisfying to see Marcus take on Neroon in defense of Delenn, and in doing so convince him that Delenn should indeed be the leader of the Rangers, but I do feel a bit uncomfortable with "We live for the One, we die for the One". It sounds cool and all, but no one is always right! Not even THE one
Of course I haven't undergone extensive training on Minbar, but I wouldn't lightly vow to die for someone, certainly not someone I didn't have a close personal relationship with. Most of the Rangers presumably barely know Ranger One.But, anyway, I like that part a lot. I always like Neroon episodes. He's great.
A question: would the Den'Sha (guessing at the spelling here
) be something that is known to Minbari via legend only? If no Minbari has killed a Minbari in a thousand years, why is this still common knowledge? Is this some kind of cautionary tale? "In the Dark Days, when Minbari killed Minbari"?
Springer
Regular
A question: would the Den'Sha (guessing at the spelling here
The Minbari are depicted as a stagnating society, just like the Centauri but in different ways. The Minbari keep the old ways as part of their culture, even though they don't practice them anymore. But it prevents them from moving forwards as a society. They also believe they are dying off, or at least becoming diminished, because of the transferral of souls (which I think to begin with was meant to be literally the case, but in the end it was just human DNA being mixed with Minbari DNA as a result of Siinclair travelling back in time), so that mindset isn't conducive to progress either, and it all led to civil war.
Lennier's Tears
Regular
It'd be fascinating to learn more about Minbari society. I guess they have somewhat longer lifespans than humans and perhaps a thousand years doesn't quite mean the same to them as it does to us, but still, that is a very long time.
The previous Shadow war would have been a chaotic time for them, and then all the changes that Valen implemented would have turned things upside down. But then, the culture stabilizes and barely moves at all for a thousand years? That's very interesting.
I like your explanation about their hanging on to the old ways preventing them from moving forward.
About the mixing of DNA: I am slightly confused about what exactly happens to Sinclair's DNA when he uses the device that turns him Minbari. He comes out looking like a full Minbari, unlike Delenn who's clearly only half human. Does he still have human DNA? He just LOOKS Minbari?
The previous Shadow war would have been a chaotic time for them, and then all the changes that Valen implemented would have turned things upside down. But then, the culture stabilizes and barely moves at all for a thousand years? That's very interesting.
I like your explanation about their hanging on to the old ways preventing them from moving forward.
About the mixing of DNA: I am slightly confused about what exactly happens to Sinclair's DNA when he uses the device that turns him Minbari. He comes out looking like a full Minbari, unlike Delenn who's clearly only half human. Does he still have human DNA? He just LOOKS Minbari?
