It kind of reminds me of that episode in Crusade where it was made to look as though Matheson was pretty much single-handedly responsible for the outcome of the telepath war. I guess more might have been made of it later (Sinclair was pretty much single-handedly responsible for ending the Earth Minbari war, after all), but it still seemed to come out of nowhere.
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EpDis: In The Beginning
- Thread starter vacantlook
- Start date
Recoil
Regular
Well I think for the MOST part, they did things right. First off, part of the reason for the movie was to SEE what our heroes from the series did in the Earth-Minbari War. We heard about it, but this is putting all the pieces together in one tale.
* Sheridan taking out the Blackstar
* Franklin refusing to hand over his notes
* Delenn's role in the Grey Council
* Sinclair in the Battle of the Line
* GKar selling Weapons with the Narn
* Invanova losing her brother
All those were mentioned in the series. Where they sort of stretched things a bit, was with the added parts that those characters ALSO ended up doing.
Mainly, Franklin and Sheridan being there at the attempted "peace offering" meeting that the Centauri foiled. That to me was an unnecessary stretch. They could have had ANY two Earth people meet GKar (who was a series regular) and Lenon (who was a main character in this movie) and it would have been fine. But for Sheridan and Franklin to also be the ones to go seemed to much for them to do in the War. Couple that with the fact that Franklin doesn't seem to have met Sheridan when he arrived at B5, yet he served with him in a crucial part of the War, and was brought to a Minbari Cruiser with him. Yea, I think after all that, you remember a guy. In fact, they both would have probably remembered GKar.
They should have just let that part be done by someone else.
I do think the additions that Londo did in the War were good, and very believable.
Springer
Regular
I think In the Beginning isn't bad for what it is, a 90-minute TV movie trying to tell the story of a two-year long interstellar war. I think its short length is one of its main problems, trying to cram in the war film aspect of humanity's battle for survival, the Minbari's search for meaning which they express through war with Earth when they should be expressing it against the Shadows, and setting up and referencing various plot points from the series, is really too much for ninety minutes. There's so much going on that some parts feel forced in an effort to fit it all in and make sense. Now, if they could have made it a three hour epic, they could have fleshed things out a lot more and wouldn't have had to rely on unlikely cameos from the main cast.
I really liked the way they used Londo as the hook into the story, and the ending is spine tingling, even though we know what is going to happen. I don't think it is a very good introduction to the series – too many spoilers – but watching it after the series I think is more rewarding.
My second favourite TV movie, after A Call to Arms.
I really liked the way they used Londo as the hook into the story, and the ending is spine tingling, even though we know what is going to happen. I don't think it is a very good introduction to the series – too many spoilers – but watching it after the series I think is more rewarding.
My second favourite TV movie, after A Call to Arms.
Recoil
Regular
I'm not sure I agree. I don't think making it longer would have helped. As I stated above, I've always thought there was already a lot of dialogue for what it was. Its pacing seemed very slow at times. However, I think it DID very well bring out all of the emotion for humanities fight for survival. The last 15-20min is very powerful. The series TALKED about those events but actually seeing them was far more impactful. I think to add too much more to the time would have really taken away from this.
As it was, it was clearly meant for those who had seen the series. Sure, first time viewers could watch it and get enjoyment out of it, but not all the attachment and emotion as someone who watched 4 years of B5.
As it was, it was clearly meant for those who had seen the series. Sure, first time viewers could watch it and get enjoyment out of it, but not all the attachment and emotion as someone who watched 4 years of B5.
dencor
Regular
The best of the B5 movies. It was interesting to see how the Earth, Mimbari war came about and its sudden end. Yes, it seems to drag at points but the key to the movie was Londo. To see his fate and not just a glimpse here or there. When he touched the ladys hand and said, all he wanted was just five minutes on a beach somewhere with her. You could see the sadness in his face and the acceptance of his fate all in just that one moment. ITB and SIL are the two that I can never grow tired of watching.
dennis
dennis
Babylon5fan07
Member
ItB was also my favorite of the movies. Excellent stuff!
Oviously there are others that I could quote from but for now I have to agree that In The Beginning is by far the best of all 5 movies. I'm sure most of you all know this but initially JMS would have rather the fans watched ITB before The Gathering.
I know there are people out there that would be upset that there are some spoilers but my ex-girlfriend would have never watched all 5 seasons of B5 if it hadn't been for the watching ITB first. Yes, there are a couple spoilers but like a puzzle the spoilers are so minute that for me as a fan I want to find out what happens that leads to the answers to the questions JMS always asks in each episode. Then of course by the master list watch The Gathering, Midnight on the Firing Line and Soul Hunter..so on.
vacantlook
Super Moderator
In watching through for the first time, I like the idea that come in to season two, one shouldn't feel too secure regarding Sheridan. Garibaldi's line, "I don't know you," is an excellent demonstration through a character what I think an audience member should be feeling at that point in the story. To watch "In The Beginning" before the series takes away that feeling of having had a foundation of Sinclair established and then to have it ripped out; one can't feel uncertain alongside the characters regarding Sheridan's place in the story.
Babylon5fan07
Member
I don't agree..oviously we all have a different take on the whole show but JMS did create the show to have some lineage of some sorts. Of course not withstanding renewing the show every season..I love watching Sinclair grow as a character and then of course with the assassination of President Santiago and then having him going to Minbar getting the Rangers secretly get ready for the shadow war and of course in reincarnation as Valen in the 2 part War Without End episodes.
I think Sinclair had his time on the show that was very important but again with Zathras quoting "Sinclair is The One who was, Delenn is The One who is, and Sheridan is The One who will be" it was time for Sheridan to take over the reigns of the station and let his path in life take shape.
Again I'm not here to change your opinion but that's just my take.
vacantlook
Super Moderator
Babylon5fan07 said:
I'm not sure you understand my opinion. I'm not saying that Sinclair should have stayed around; I'm not saying that Sheridan should never have come into the picture. I'm saying watching "In The Beginning" before the series itself deprives one of experiencing the apprehension of Sheridan's taking over because one then already knows Sheridan from having watched ITB. Like Garibaldi in the story, one shouldn't feel all that comfortable with Sheridan at first. One's trust in him has to be built through exposure as one watches him more and more, but to already know him from having watched ITB prevents one from having that experience.
Babylon5fan07
Member
No don't worry I understand what your saying but as I've stated in a couple other threads on this board. The very first B5 I showed my ex-girlfriend was The Gathering then of course season 1. My ex got very very confused and thought the show was very confusing. But then when I went to midwinter.com/lurk website which has a somewhat master list of all the episodes and movies in order in which the show should be watched I began marathoning all the B5 episodes on my own and then watching them again with my ex she absolutely loved it. The horrific experience of watching Santiago assassinated really moved my ex a lot. Watching the slow build up of Londo and his slow demise collaborating with Morden and the shadows really made a difference.
Please don't think I don't understand what your saying it's just that my ex ended up asking me to watch the episodes more than I asked her as the series went on. For me its more of a build up one episode at a time kind of thing.
I absolutely love the fact that JMS ended up using a jigsaw puzzle scenario type of writing where you had to fit the episodes together to make a complete picture. I guess this kind of a show is one of those where different people have different takes on how to watch the show. I guess it just depends on what kind of tastes you like. There are even people that won't even give this show a chance because it's either too slow or that it was kind of controversial being toe to toe with Star Trek: Deep Space Nine
Alex
I votet F for Failure.
To me this was downright stupid, and the worst part of B5, ever.
The future parts with Londo, the two kids and the woman, who we learned in the Centauri trilogy is named Senna, was very nicely done.
The parts were the main "heroes" that had absolutely not met each other before, suddenly, in order to make a new pilot, was revealed to have met before. And not just in passing, no, no, Sheridan meeting the Delenn onboard a Minbari ship and saving the day and so on.
None of this was believable at all.
The worst was the G'Kar bit. Before In The Beginning was made, we had this character going from bad to not so bad and then to a sort of nice guy and savior.
Now suddenly, he was not so bad before he was bad !
To me this was downright stupid, and the worst part of B5, ever.
The future parts with Londo, the two kids and the woman, who we learned in the Centauri trilogy is named Senna, was very nicely done.
The parts were the main "heroes" that had absolutely not met each other before, suddenly, in order to make a new pilot, was revealed to have met before. And not just in passing, no, no, Sheridan meeting the Delenn onboard a Minbari ship and saving the day and so on.
None of this was believable at all.
The worst was the G'Kar bit. Before In The Beginning was made, we had this character going from bad to not so bad and then to a sort of nice guy and savior.
Now suddenly, he was not so bad before he was bad !
Babylon5fan07
Member
Holy Toledo? Are you serious? I think JMS would be shocked to hear you say that..Not that you can't have an opinion of course but wow..JMS wanted to initially show this movie before The Gathering if you go to midwinter.com/lurker and it explains all the small references of the Earth/Minbari War throughout the 5 year saga including during the 4th season Deleen has to take a test which shows the footage of what happened to Dukhat. It even has a small snippet of what happened to Sheridan/Delenn and if you watch it before the seasons it has a foreshadow of Londo being old on the throne which leads to War Without End and of course the Centauri Trilogy explains all that to a T.
Is this movie as good as Sleeping in Light being the last episode no but it's still the best movie of all the movies.
Wow an A+ movie for me
Alex
Jade Jaguar
Regular
I couldn't disagree more. IMO, G'Kar was never bad. He was defensive, abrasive, and indignant. Those qualities may not be endearing to many, but they are quite understandable, and to be expected, from someone whose people had been as brutally oppressed as the Narns were by the Centauri. He had very good reasons for his positions.
Of course, he did move toward a more transcendent view of things, becoming what I would call enlightened. But, I don't think one is a bad person, just because they haven't been "enlightened."
Babylon5fan07
Member
Yes Jade Jaguar I agree..if you watch all 5 seasons of Babylon 5 you notice that Londo and G'Kar have flipped sides when it comes to their personalities. Londo was a fun (funny) kind of a easy man to get along with while G'Kar was being very stern, agressive but still at points funny too but of course as we saw in Midnight on the Firing Line he totally flips out on Londo because of the Ragesh 3 incident but later on as Londo gets asked What Do You Want? from Morden from that point on both end up switching sides..Londo is afraid and continues to make mistakes and isn't even easy to get along with at all while G'Kar becomes very dignified as much as Andreas was himself as an actor plus very easy to get along with.
Alex
Alex
Elipsis
Regular
A-.
There were some epic B5 historical moments which were only hinted at played out in full in this movie. The Ivanova earring thing was very clever, and it's nice to see our Vorlons together without killing each other. There is a good bit of irony here (Sheridan talking about going up against his own government and how terrible it would be)... but I can't fully get past the large number of coincidences:
Everybody knew everybody else 10 years prior... or at least were in the same area without meeting. (Londo and G'kar / Sheridan and Delenn). It didn't hurt the overall story, but it was a large pill to swallow.
It also could've used another 30 minutes and some original Sinclair footage, nonetheless the overall story is so epic and dramatically presented that all of these minor complaints only take it from an A+ to an A- in my book.
There were some epic B5 historical moments which were only hinted at played out in full in this movie. The Ivanova earring thing was very clever, and it's nice to see our Vorlons together without killing each other. There is a good bit of irony here (Sheridan talking about going up against his own government and how terrible it would be)... but I can't fully get past the large number of coincidences:
Everybody knew everybody else 10 years prior... or at least were in the same area without meeting. (Londo and G'kar / Sheridan and Delenn). It didn't hurt the overall story, but it was a large pill to swallow.
It also could've used another 30 minutes and some original Sinclair footage, nonetheless the overall story is so epic and dramatically presented that all of these minor complaints only take it from an A+ to an A- in my book.
Galahad
Regular
The difference between G'Kar ItB and G'kar S1, is that he isn't playing to a crowd. He'splaying the part of a negotiator... trying to strengthen relations with Earth in order to weaken the human's stronger ties to the Centauri. Whether he is good or bad is irrelevent, he is on his best behaviour because he needs to paint the Narns as good and chip away at the accepted perception of the Centauri subtly.
By the time we are in season 1, G'Kar has a very public stage and uses it to good effect, especially in the B5 Council chambers... and don't forget he is face to face with the representative of the race that antagonized the Narns in the distant past. Passions are bound to run high.
Clark Kent
Member
While I did enjoy ItB, I've never thought that it should be viewed before "The Gathering." For me, the movie is best viewed after the fourth-season episode "Atonement."
Of the movies, I think it's the most ambitious and epic; although, some of the meetings I do find a bit of stretch. Then again, it is a melodramatic and life does indeed contain coincidences.
Of the movies, I think it's the most ambitious and epic; although, some of the meetings I do find a bit of stretch. Then again, it is a melodramatic and life does indeed contain coincidences.
Jade Jaguar
Regular
Not so distant. G'Kar was a child when the Centauri occupied his planet and brutalized his people.
Galahad
Regular
I thought the occupation went back long before G'Kar's time and that it was merely his generation that threw out the Centauri.
