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Evolution and Revolution

Superbob: this is how I approach this matter...

A sentient mind is self-programming computer. Genes only build the hardware. Improving that hardware will increase processing speed and storage capacity. Software is not in the computer. It cannot be hardcoded in genes. Genes make the "machine" capable of learning. They set limits, but never decide what it learns. Software comes from the evironment, the human society, in the form of experiences and education, and is further processed, filtered and altered by each individual.

That is why society and education are more important that genes. Genes will see to themselves. Messing with our own genes is something we should avoid, because we are not responsible and experienced enough to change ourselves. We can engineer new strains of industrial microbes, but that is far from responsible decisions regarding ourselves. Therefore we better leave our genes alone, except when medical assistance is needed to prevent illness or injury.

Society on the other hand becomes more and more important. Functioning societies ensure that our civilisation does not destroy itself (and already for some time, it has to power to accomplish that). Society needs attention and care. Technology is important becuse our existence on this planet is not sustainable. Unless we discover new ways to produce and maintain, we will pillage the ecosystem beyond the point of no repair. Genes can wait a thousand years, a million years. Society and technology cannot wait.

If you improve the hardware of a human mind and neglect its software, the result will be DOS 2.2 on a Shadow supercomputer. The result will be devastating. You will have a civilisation which is smart, but not wise. Very powerful but self-destructive.

To reiterate my point: the human nature is not, and has never been governed by genes. Our software comes from the environment, is characteristic of all sentient creatures regardless of genes, and lives a life of its own.
 
Fair enough. I haven't been able to put together a coherent argument in order to solidify my point. I should imagine it's interesting to have a one on one debate with you. Now I would like your opinion on somthing. Do you believe in telekenisis and telepathy? and if so do you think that this could be an unconscious developement within the gene pool so to speak?
 
I believe that telepathy and some resemblance to telekinesis can be achieved via technology. When communications devices can interact directly with the brain, accept messages and commands from thought, people will have achieved telepathy.

When devices for manipulating material objects (be they spaceships or microscopic probes) can carry out commands given via such means, people will have achived an ability which greatly resembles telekinesis. But natural telekinesis in the strict sense (with no technology involved) would seem very unlikely.
 
Two words for you Yuri Gellar. Humans have natural abilities we have yet to explore. Anyway I'll leave it at that before I annoy you. Maybe I'm hippocritical because as much as I hate the concept of modern technology I use on a daily basis. However it has been interesting chatting to you. I must compliment you on your argumentative skills!
 
Sorry, SuperBob. Uri is a well known fake. I do agree that humans have natural abilities we have yet to explore. Yogis can do some amazing things.
 
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Jade Jaguar:
<font color=yellow>Sorry, SuperBob. Uri is a well known fake. I do agree that humans have natural abilities we have yet to explore. Yogis can do some amazing things.</font color=yellow><hr></blockquote>

Where's the proof! seriously though when , how and where was established that he's a fake? I always though it was the only solid proof that we have!
 
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by superbob:
<font color=yellow>Where's the proof! seriously though when , how and where was established that he's a fake? I always though it was the only solid proof that we have!</font color=yellow><hr></blockquote>

I remember seeing him being disproved on the Tonight Show with Johnny Carson about 20 years ago.
 
I think the Amazing Randi also exposed him. One of his tricks was to put mercury on the spoons he bent. This makes them soft, but they look the same. Hidden magnets move watch arms easily. I think alot of us have instances in our lives that make us think that there may be something to psychic powers, things that seem too strange to be coincidence. Two for me: When I was in HS, I played a lot of Risk. I was unbeaten for years. I would concentrate, and visualize sixes on the dice. I got an amazing amount of sixes, and lots of fours and fives. We kept track in one long game, and I rolled over 50% sixes. I lost this power at about 20, and was finally beaten. Statistically very odd, but perhaps not impossible. An even stranger, single incident: in 9th grade, well into the semester, I left one class to go my next class. When I got there, I realized that I was in the wrong class.I went to another, confused, I couldn't remember what class I had next, and it was wrong too. Suddenly, my head cleared. I went upstairs to my algebra class, late. Moments before, a light fixture had fallen and crushed my desk. I don't think I am that special.I think a lot of us have things like that happen. I have read that some legitimate psychic researchers think that what powers we may have in that area peak in our teens. If such things are real, some day science will identify them, and explain how they work.
 
O.k , well my whole theory went for a loop, thank you very much (sigh). If it's all the same to you I would like to continue to hope and believe in the possibility of gifts of the supernatural!
 
Well, as I just cited personal examples of possible telekinesis and precognition, I will certainly keep an open mind too.
 
One thing I hope they do figure out, is a womans sixth sense. Guy's need to know whats going on before we hit first one status!
Wasn't what you described more a premonition than anything else?
 
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by A_M_Swallow:
<font color=yellow>There is a male equivalent of a woman's sixth sense. When men predict what the boss wants.</font color=yellow><hr></blockquote>

Guess i'm screwed! never been able to do that!
 
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by A_M_Swallow:
<font color=yellow>There is a male equivalent of a woman's sixth sense. When men predict what the boss wants.</font color=yellow><hr></blockquote>
Actually, I know women who do a very good job at that, too! One I knew actually had the "bosses" wrapped around her little finger. In a very obvious way. At first I thought it was cute. Then I thought it was pathetic. But what the heck, if it gave our department an edge... /ubbthreads/images/icons/rolleyes.gif

In truth, though, I was glad when she left. She had a mean streak a mile wide in her, and you always had to tread lightly around her ego, if you know what I mean.
 
SB, premonition seems to be just a weak form of precognition (foreknowledge) to me. In the personal case I cite, it seemed to me that what happened was that my subconscious knew what was going to happen, and befuddled my conscious mind, or at least denied it knowledge of where my class was, preventing harm to me. By whatever name one calls it, it isn't currently scientifically explainable.
 
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by superbob:
<font color=yellow>I hear and agree! one wrong step and your rear lands up in a sling!</font color=yellow><hr></blockquote>:D
Yes. Don't get me wrong, though, I've known many women who handle promotion quite well, and honorably. I am currently working at a college with quite a few female administrators, especially in the upper levels. And this is a hard year to be an admin. in an Arizona school. (Budget cuts all over the place, faculty very unhappy and looking for work elsewhere, etc.) But I do think that there are some peoplewho do handle being "bosses" better than others.

As far as psychic phenomena goes, I am firmly undecided. I used to believe all sorts of things “might be true”. Like humans being abducted by aliens, and near-death experiences showing of an afterlife and heaven, etc, etc. In fact, I believed in it all so much that I started to study it in my free time. That’s when I feel I ran across very reasonable explanations for the first two phenomena in my list: alien abductions as well as near-death visions of heaven.

Sleep-dream paralysis is what keeps us from “acting out” our dreams. (Why don’t you start running when you dream you are running? The brain makes sure you don’t with this.) The problem is, some people will wake up again after the sleep-dream paralysis has kicked in. Why do so many “alien abductees” get abducted in their sleep when they are seemingly paralyzed by some unknown force? How many say they could not feel themselves breathing while they were “abducted”? I think this could explain a lot in terms of how perfectly intelligent and rational people can sincerely believe they were abducted by aliens.

The near-death experience has been well documented in people training to be fighter pilots. They must be tested under enormous G-forces. Some of those who black out inside of that simulator experience the exact same phenomena (tunnel with a white light at the end of it) as someone who has died and been brought back medically. Yet these people in the simulators have not died.

IIRC, these were two of the explanations I came across that made me think that science may have already solved these two mysteries.

Deja-vu and such I don't know. I think they would be much harder to explain and sometimes seem way too much to be coincidence. /ubbthreads/images/icons/confused.gif
 
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Jade Jaguar:
<font color=yellow>SB, premonition seems to be just a weak form of precognition (foreknowledge) to me. In the personal case I cite, it seemed to me that what happened was that my subconscious knew what was going to happen, and befuddled my conscious mind, or at least denied it knowledge of where my class was, preventing harm to me. By whatever name one calls it, it isn't currently scientifically explainable.</font color=yellow><hr></blockquote>
This is the kind of thing that makes me wonder about "deja-vu and other stuff". It seems too much to be a coincidence, and you don't have a medical history (I assume) that includes black-outs or seizures. Some would say it was an act of God so give up trying to explain it in terms of yourself or your abilities. I just don't know. I find it more believeable that something in you "knew" (but could not communicate it to you).
 
Premonitions, deja vu etc - not that I've spent too much time thinking about all that, but my personal belief is that there's plenty of stuff in the universe that the current science cannot explain yet. Circular time, several levels of existence, whatever - stuff that now would seem impossible, simply because we have no grasp of it yet.

Just think how impossible a lot of the current science would have seemed during Newton's times or later, when "Newtonian physics" was considered the only possibility, before Einstein came along. If you think just how much progress has been made in the last 2-3 centuries, that our current scientific knowledge is vast compared to that of Newton's times (not to mention the time before him!), that we can now explain phenomena that would have seemed quite impossible or "divine" back then - I have no doubt that some day, maybe a few centuries from now, science can already explain a lot of those curious mysteries that we now can only wonder about.

Yep, I'm an optimist in such things, and I do think everything is explainable by science, just not yet. /ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif
 

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