Has anyone thought of this?

[**DONOTDELETE**]

I had a non-SF fan watching with me. The only comment was that she didn't like the Hand ships.

And I'll happily join the chorus. Alex, you were awesome! I love Dulann, and the Dulann/David friendship was one of my favorite things.

------------------

 

[Talathanar]

Great job on Dulann, Alex. Assuming Rangers turns into a series will Dulann take on a more stoic Minbari role or will the same amount of humor be kept for the character?

------------------

 

[FlarnHead]

Yes, KUDOS for your portrayal of Dullan, Alex!!

I watched the Movie with a seasoned Sci-Fi vet, and two newcomers to the whole sci-fi genre as a whole (they can differentiate between Star Trek ans Star Wars 90% of the time). In gauging thier reactions to the show, I'd say that an effort to bring newcomers in was quite sucessful.
We all Liked it very much. And aside from the "Sweedish Meatballs" and to a lesser extent "No one is who they seem" parts of the show, they didn't feel left out of the story at all.

Once again, KUDOS to all involved!

------------------

 

[hypatia]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lyta:
Thanks! I have a few others on my list but I wanted to pick something that no one else has yet. That scene just cracks me up everytime!

And just in case this was not entirely clear before ... I have a list of sigs that I use for email and a program which randomly selects one of them. I won't be changing the one on the boards for a while.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That was a GREAT scene. Again, does anyone know how large the crew is of the Liandra?

<table bgcolor=black><tr><td bgcolor=black><font size=1 color=white>Spoiler:</font></td></tr><tr><td><font size=2 color=black>That scene gave me the impression that she was in the engine room alone. But the line where David asks for "a healer" makes me think the crew is bigger than I originally thought. </font></td></tr></table>

Oh, I too would like to join in the many voices that are saying Dulann was played to perfection! I'm serious, and not just kissing up here!

I thought all of the acting was great, but something about Dulann just seemed so natural. Bravo!

------------------
"The Bible is a book: it is a good book, but is is not the only book" - Inherit the Wind

"I do not believe that the same God who
has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use."—Galileo

hypatia@b5fan.b5lr.com

 

[hypatia]

I can't remember who said (something like this):
"In our business, sincerity is everything. If you an fake THAT, you've got it made!"

------------------
"The Bible is a book: it is a good book, but is is not the only book" - Inherit the Wind

"I do not believe that the same God who
has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use."—Galileo

hypatia@b5fan.b5lr.com

 

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Frankly while some of the criticisms are nitpicky and others a matter of personal taste (such as the gunnery pod), I don't mind those criticisms. The type I do mind are 1) those who act like JMS has lost his mind or 2) criticisms that show the person, who claims to know B5, really doesn't have a clue.

I was over at the IGN site reading their 10 questions to the cast of Lotr and decided to see why their review was so negative. After about the third paragraph I wanted to barf. The criticisms showed the reviewer had no concept of B5 or JMS' writing style.

Some samples (paraphrased):

1) The names of the characters were too similar to those in the original series. Oh wow, so Dulann sounds like Delenn. Guess its totally impossible that a language has similar sounding names. Saul and Paul for example... <rolls eyes> Then there was the tannier/lennier comparison. Obviously the reviewer didn't realize that Tannier already appeared in B5, so I'll forgive him that.

2) The Hand wasn't so tough. Excuse me? Did this person actually watch the movie? While the Hand may be behind everything, our heros were not fighting the Hand themselves but their flunkies. Its like saying the Shadows aren't tough because you can beat the Drakh. The movie makes it perfectly clear the "hooded figure" is a servent and not one of the real bad guys. They are still locked in their prison.

3) Then there was the inevitable comparison to Star Trek. Martel is exactly like Kirk. Dulann is so much like Spock. Then there was some crack about the Doctor never comping out of sick bay. Hello? IF you are going to compare shows, pay attention. Firrel is very shy and soft spoken, so staying in sick bay is fine for her. McCoy, since the reviewer was comparing people to the original series, never stayed in sick bay when he could be on the bridge with Kirk. I hate simplistic comparisons!

On another rant, people seem to forget that JMS doesn't write his characters as all knowing beings like some shows do. G'Kar knows exactly what G'Kar should know. He does not necessarily know everything Sheridan knows, or Delenn or Londo or, especially, the viewer! We get to see the whole picture, but JMS keeps his character's knowledge grounded in what they should or would know given the circumstances.

Minister Kafta says the Hand is far worse than the Shadows. Ok, so HE thinks so. Doesn't make it true. Heck, it doesn't even mean that they are truly vile and evil. All we know about them is what they told some flunkies and some legends G'Kar unearthed. Raise your hand if you thought the Vorlon's were sweetness, goodness and light for the first 3.5 Season of B5. Heck I fell for it hook, line and sinker.

I hate to say this, but the fans assume they know everything about the B5 universe. Only JMS knows everything, we know only what he has shown us so far and even that may not be the total truth. People complained about "Rangers never run away". Pick a time in B5 when a Ranger did run away? Delenn never backed away from a fight,neither did Marcus or Sheridan. Sure it doesn't make military sense, sometimes you would want to retreat. Then again the Japanese in WW2 rarely retreated. Their army was never taught how to properly retreat (and yes there is a proper way). If defeated, they either scattered or continued to fight long past the time any sensible soldier would have given up. No one said everything in B5 had to make sense. That is what makes its universe so real.

Anyway that is enough of a rant. I liked the movie a lot. I thought the cast did an excellent job and I really hope the show gets picked up as a series. Knowing JMS the story will go in ways none of us can even dream of. Just look at some of the plots he had in mind for Crusade, if that is any comfort!

------------------
Lyta lives!

 

[Kribu]

Excellent comments, Nyght and Alex.

While I haven't seen the movie and can't thus have an opinion on it, I do agree that a reviewer should at least try and get the main poins clear before he starts criticizing it.

Criticism, i.e. constructive criticism, can be good, and if there's something wrong with a show (as if there was ever any show that didn't have any weaknesses at all!), then of course a reviewer should point it out.

However, missing or misinterpreting vital plot points (or nitpicking on something as silly as the names) is hardly the right way to go about it!

As for the movie being geared to bring new fans aboard... if we want a series, then that's kind of self-evident. I guess that when the series follows, there will probably more continuity with the established B5 universe (such as perhaps seeing a Whitestar every now and then etc?).

In any case, I'm still looking forward to seeing the movie some day.

I'm not expecting it to be perfect (I always try and watch a new movie/show with low expectations since I prefer to be pleasantly surprised rather than feel let down), but from everything I've read, I still have no reason to believe it wouldn't be at least enjoyable and entertaining.

------------------
"Isn't the universe an amazing place? I wouldn't live anywhere else." - G'Kar, B5: Rangers
Kribu's Lounge | kribu@ranger.b5lr.com

 

[channe]

(oops, double post, see the other one below, please!)

[This message has been edited by channe (edited January 23, 2002).]

 

[channe]

Alex, to respond to something you just said about JMS' journey to get this story onscreen:

As a television show, Babylon 5's story has the distinct, nauseous pleasure of being able to be taken one of two ways by the media, both of which can be justified in the "devil can quote scripture to serve his purpose" fashion. Bad reviews will most likely use the second, I've noticed, and good reviews will most likely use the first. It's all about how you want your audience to view the show before you even start in on the minutiae. I'll be as accurate as I possibly can be off the top of my head....

1) The Little Show That Could. No matter what happened, through fire, fog, snow, Shadows, and TNT, Babylon 5 endures. At the end of Season Four, PTEN kicked the bucket, and the show was left without a home, a fantastic piece of television literature looking for a home because they were piteously evicted, sort of like a sweet old couple are kicked out of a home that's being demolished because of structural problems that appeared when the home was built. They finally found a sponsor in TNT, who carried them through and even picked up a sequel to this award-winning show. Crusade, however, was on the verge of being wrested away from JMS' creative control; they wanted sex, guns, fights, ludicrous storylines like setting Dureena up to be raped, and as any creative professional with the guts, the chutzpah, and the POWER to do so (not every writer in Hollywood can refuse to be rewritten and get away with it as much as he does), JMS refused to compromise his beliefs and views about how his story should be told. Sci-Fi, seeing the potential in the show, picked it up, financed a new movie - and look at this new movie, with potential up the wazoo! JMS did it once, he's doing it in the comics and in Jeremiah, and he can do it again with Rangers.

2. The Star Trek Wannabe That Has Overstayed Its Welcome. It was nice when it was on, but Babylon 5 should remain what it was: Babylon 5, and JMS should stop trying to beat a goose that lays golden eggs if it keeps on getting killed by the network, shouldn't he? At the end of Season Four, Babylon 5 was almost cancelled (note: I've noticed good reviews will almost never use the word "cancelled" when having to do with a sequel series), but TNT took in the failing show and gave it a home, but, unfortunately, like an old couple with late-stage cancer in a nursing home, the show couldn't overcome those problems at the end of Season 4. However, the show got good ratings, so episodes of a sequel were commissioned. Although there were rumors of TNT executives wishing to become more involved with the creative decisions surrounding Crusade, the real reason why it was cancelled was because it was just a bad show. The Sci-Fi Channel is just beating a dead golden goose over and over again, trying to eke money out of a show that shouldn't have been a franchise in the first place - I mean, one of the sequels would have been stellar, right? JMS is too overwhelmed, too overstretched between all his various projects, including Jeremiah, to really be able to handle another Babylon 5 series. Maybe he's lost his vigor.

I'll give you three guesses to figure out which one I agree with, and the first two don't count...

------------------
channe@cryoterrace | "I wonder," said Frodo, "but I don't know. And that's the way of a real tale."

[This message has been edited by channe (edited January 23, 2002).]

 

[**DONOTDELETE**]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Then I realized that this individual would probably take my comments out of context as well and slam me, try to make me look bad as well and be just as narrow minded as ever. People like that don't deserve our energy. Even this is almost to much of my energy for them...so, I'm done. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hehe, Alex watch 'The Illusion of Truth' (if you haven't seen it already). It deals with quotes being taken out of context.

It may give you another added perspective of the G'kar interview (on the preview commericals for LOTR, again I'm blindly assuming you haven't seen it.)

BTW I'm glad to see the cast is actually interested in the fan base and posts/responds here. That goes a long way to increase loyalty, even with an audience as fanatically loyal as this one

I hope it goes to a series, and I'd love to see the character of Dulann develop even more. As it stands I still thought he and Martell were the best devloped of the new characters in the movie. Dulann is by far the coolest minbari

Take Care Alex, and thanks.
Allroy

Hey, it's not ass-kissin' if it's true. - Elvis, True Romance

------------------
No choice, no choice at all.

 

[Hyperspace]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR> ... 3) Then there was the inevitable comparison to Star Trek. Martel is exactly like Kirk. Dulann is so much like Spock. ...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm one of the ones who made such a statement (although you are exaggerating it to the extreme). For me personally it was meant as a pure compliment. The strong bond between the three main characters on Star Trek was perhaps the greatest strength of the show, and it is exactly the lack of such strong relatioships that make the latter Trek series seem like pale imitiations in the character department. That B5LR manages to create something similar (but not identical) is unquestionably a *GOOD* thing.

------------------
- Lars

[This message has been edited by Hyperspace (edited January 23, 2002).]

 

[Hyperspace]

[double post - please delete]

[This message has been edited by Hyperspace (edited January 23, 2002).]

 

[BlaineJohnston]

Alex,

Thanks for participating in our little part of alternate reality. I love the movie and thought it did a wonderful job of laying a fresh foundation for a new series.

I must be easy to please and a bit simple as well, because I thought the acting was very good up and down the cast, especially compared to other pilots. In reading the backgrounds and interviews of the cast members, it seemed that most were not familiar with Babylon 5 and its inhabitants, and yet I thought the performers pulled off there respective roles convincingly. I would bet that most if not all of the actores put in more than the usual amount of time researching their characters and the Babylon 5 mythos in general. I read where Dylan said that he had spent quite a bit of time online reviewing various Babylon 5 sites.

Nyght, excellent points!

I've left a few messages elsewhere about people who claim to be science fiction fans and yet seem to think that they "know" all that there is in the B5 universe or how everything "should" be.

Our own real world is filled with wonder and variety that defies explanation, and yet some people think they have a bead on a universe created by someone else - someone who has spent a hell of a lot more time and energy on both consistency and the variety of the stories that exist within it.

My guess is that JMS has not exhausted all of the twists, turns and new adventures that exist in *his* world.

I liked Crusade and would have loved to see that series continue. I have no doubt that Rangers will be on par or better. Maybe we might even see a few characters from Crusade involved with the Rangers down the road a bit

Thanks again Alex, and all of the cast and crew of B5:LotR, and especially JMS, for continuing to expand upon the magical and entertaining world of Babylon 5!

 

[Quagmire]

First I would like to thank Alex for both his time here and his performance. I do wonder how you feel about having a less developed bone. It's not true what they say, is it?

Second I don't think it's so odd that a healer was called for instead of being called by name. It's probably procedure to say this when needed which probably also means that it is this word that she is listening for instead of her name. It also helps if a go between, perhaps someone new, has to find a healer and doesn't know names yet. After all I've blanked on names of people I've know for years(and a couple I woke up with) but saying healer would tell you instantly who to look for.

------------------
"Crying isn't gonna get your dog back. Unless your tears smell like dog food. So you can sit here eating can after can of dog food until your tears smell like dog food or you can go out there and find your dog."-Homer in The Canine Mutiny

 

[FlarnChef]

This is all too exciting! Alex, thank you for your wonderful performance....

Potential...I see great potential! As a B5 addict that can almost as nitpicky as the next, I can only say: damn the timeline, the Liandra questions, and all the other crap being spouted by the self-made B5 scholars!

I am happy that the B5 Universe is still breathing....and will have an even bigger fan base

------------------
"...abso-FRAGGIN-lutely, damn it! I have been studying your use of lauguage since our last discussion. Do you approve?"

 

[Lyta]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by hypatia:
Again, does anyone know how large the crew is of the Liandra?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Here is a quote from the Great Maker himself that was taken from the moderated newsgroup (dated 1.21.2002):

[The Liandra] is also, by design, a small, fast (crew of maybe 20) patrol ship designed to go on the edge, it's not meant to go out there and pulverize fleets.

PS: Nyght, I loved your post! Especially your sig.

------------------
Monica Hübinette | Abyss : B5 <- New & Improved!
Pouch-sucking spawn of a bladder fish! Son of a fitch piece of smelt! Tok-swallowing fenbarger! Thrak it! --Na'Feel swearing in B5LR

 

[alex zahara]

Well it seems I've started some good discusion, excellet! This is what a good show or film or book or play is al about: something that stimulates the grey matter and gets those synapses firing. Okay now onto a fes replies. Rhea thank you so much for your praise and just a note, that the ships we fought were not the hand, like your friend thougt but servants of the Hand. Talathanar, Again thanks for the praise and to answer your question, I think Dulann will continue to develop if he is allowed to (by that I mean if a series goes ahead) and if it does go, I can only see Dulann growing in all directions. Now onto Nyght's comments, BRAVO!! I actually wrote an email and then didn't send it to the same reviewer, IGN, I believe. I didn't send it because, like all the points you raise show he didn't even listen, watch or experience the movie. He just looked for ways to trash the film, he went so far, (as have a couple of so called reviewer/critics,) as to take lines out of context from LOTR to try and bolster thier criticism! The Hand question, comes up and the name issue, I mean give me a break. Did you also notice how he has to give us a history lesson on the efforts that JMS has gone through in order to keep the B5 universe on the air over the years? He tried to make it out somehow that the shows weren't good enough to be there, in the first place so niether should this one. Perhaps JMS's journey has been that of most independent creators/writers/producers in hollywood trying to get thier creations on the air. Talk about a stilted review. This is pretty much a synopsis of my letter. Then I realized that this individual would probably take my comments out of context as well and slam me, try to make me look bad as well and be just as narrow minded as ever. People like that don't deserve our energy. Even this is almost to much of my energy for them...so, I'm done. Alex

------------------
Dulann

 

[bakana]

I'm one of the people who thinks the gunnery pod needs to be Refined rather than changed.
I think her actions should have more of the grace of Tai Chi instead of punching and kicking.
After all, she's Designating Targets, not Physically destroying them.
The computer system is perfectly capable of firing a weapon in response to the flick of a finger, so why waste the energy of a Punch or Kick?

That last part is particularly important in a Long engagement.
The punching and kicking would leave her Tired in short order.
A more relaxed, Tai Chi sort of movement pattern could be sustained for Hours.


As far as the Flat bed controversy, it's easily explained by going back to what was Said about the inclined beds during B5:
The Inclined beds are used because lying Flat has some sort of association with Death for the Minbari.
Like Flat Hospital Beds, perhaps??

Sleeping in an inclined bed requires a certain amount of Muscular control.
Control a Sick person wouldn't have in many cases.

It occurs to me that this is the first time we've SEEN a minbari hospital bed.
The only times we saw people sick on Minbari ships in B5, (Lennier & Ivanova) they were in Makeshift sickbeds in what looked like the regular quarters aboard the White Stars.

You know, it's the first time I'VE thought of it:
The White Stars didn't seem to have a formal Sickbay.
An oversight we never noticed.

------------------
Do not ascribe your own motivations to others:
At best, it will break your heart.
At worst, it will get you dead."

 

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Alex and everyone, thank you for the kind words on my posting. As I said, I think the cast did a wonderful job! Dulann was my favorite character followed by Sarah and David in a tie. Sadly the pilot didn't give enough screen time to the other cast members but I thought they played their roles very well and made me want to see more of them. Which is why I am hoping the show gets picked up as a series! I want to explore these characters because I KNOW they will grow and change just like the characters on B5.

Regarding the Star Trek comparison, I don't have a problem with people comparing crews or even individual characters. Star Trek is the baseline in American culture for sci-fi shows, so such comparisons are inevitable. If used constructively, they can be a VERY good thing because sci-fi fans know exactly what you are referring too.

What I was objecting to (and many other things I didn't mention)was the comparsion being used to put down a show rather than being used for any kind of insight. Saying Captain David Martel is a clone of Kirk is simplistic and a put down. Saying Martel has the energy and never say die attitude of Kirk is a compliment. Saying the three main characters obviously have a very strong bond and chemistry between them like Kirk, Spock and McCoy developed (over 3 seasons and 6 movies) is a great (and accurate comparison). Using the same example to say JMS is basicially trying to imitate Star Trek is not. As for the Dr. comment the reviewer made, I can't figure it out. So Firrel stayed in sickbay until needed? What is wrong with that? It means everyone knows where she is (namely treating the dying Dulann and any other injured) until she is called away to help someone. Besides I doubt that the Liandra only has one person to man their sickbay. Doubtless some crew are cross trained as medics to help her out. But what Star Trek doctor ever sat around sick bay? Only the Doctor on Voyager until he got a mobile hologram emitter. Such a comparison is silly.

Take the Minbari bed criticism/nitpick. Sure it seems odd given what we know about Minbari sleeping preferences. I'll assume Minbari are smart enough to place a footrest at the bottom of an inclined bed in sickbay to keep their patients inclined properly.

What I think a lot of people forgot or missed was the sickbay bed was inside a piece of medical equipment, presumably some kind of life support system to keep Dulann alive until they could reach a proper hospital. Lying someone flat sure saves a lot of space compared to building a unit that accomodates an inclined bed.

Another seeming flub, the Valen is the fastest ship in the fleet vs Sheridan's comment that he has never seen anything that can keep up with a White Star at maximum speed. (Keeping in mind that Galen's ship keeps up with said White Star quite handily) Is this really a contradiction? Maybe, but not without more information? What fleet is the Valen serving in? Presumably the Ranger fleet, as opposed to Earthforce, Minbari or ISA. So it may well be the fastest ship (and sorta ugly) the Rangers own. The white stars are manned by Rangers in service of the ISA but the Rangers also have other concerns and need ships to do it with. Also, fast compared to what? Is the Valen faster in hyper or in normal space? Its possible that in a point to point race (from Earth to the Sun) the Valen could outrun a white star, but the white star would have an edge in manuverability, survivability and definately in firepower. Or maybe its "faster" in hyper but much slower in normal space. Maybe the "fastest" comment was based on theory based on computer simulations. Heck, maybe Sheridan never saw the stats on the Valen or even kept it in mind since it was destroyed on its first mission. <shrugs>

These things are fun to talk about and get into friendly arguments over but do they honestly detract from the quality of the movie? Not in my opinion. I wanted to see a goot plot, good characters and a surprise ending. I happily received all three and want more, more more!!! Then again I was always greedy!!



------------------
Lyta lives!

 

[bakana]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR> Another seeming flub, the Valen is the fastest ship in the fleet vs Sheridan's comment that he has never seen anything that can keep up with a White Star at maximum speed.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It is possible for Both to be true.
Nobody said anything about Sheridan ever Seeing the Valen.

Or about anyone Racing the two ships to See which is faster.

The Valen may have been designed to be the fastest ship of its Size.
A white star is much Smaller.

And, from a standing start, it'd be like pitting a Camaro against a Semi.
You might be able to set up a Semi truck to go Faster than a Camaro's top speed.
You'll never get the semi's Zero to 60 time below the Camaro's.



------------------
Do not ascribe your own motivations to others:
At best, it will break your heart.
At worst, it will get you dead."