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HEROES / VILIANS (Spoilers Welcome)

I don't even remember an Eden and whatever else you guys are talking about there.

Eden was that supercool shorthaired chick that worked for the Company that could make people do whatever she wanted by telling them to do it. I can't remember exactly how she died; I remember she went to go kill Sylar with a gun. Either he killed her, or she shot herself in the head to keep him from getting her power.

Claude was the dude who could turn invisible that had previously worked with HRG but faked his death to escape the Company. And Simone's father was the old sick man that Peter was taking care of when he was still a nurse way back at the beginning of the show; Simone's father had some connection to Mama Patrelli that's never been fully explained, so I assumed he was involved with the Company in some way.

...Also, with Simone dead and Suresh spider-thing, there are now no major non-superhero characters....

Well, Ando's still non-powered in the current time period, at least. But I guess the question now becomes is Ando dead from Hiro stabbing him, thus negating the future Hiro saw with Ando blasting Hiro with some kind of magic red energy, or is Ando not dead and will end up getting powers as a result of either having a latent ability or from being injected with the magic formula, or is the person Hiro saw in the future not actually Ando but someone who was somehow making himself look like Ando.

Maya- sure she's silly, but with Kristen Bell out of commission, she's the hottest chick on the show. Now with her in the Chrysalis, do I have to start caring about Nikki/Jessica/Barbara/whatever in order to get my cheap thrills?

You're talking about hot girls and you don't remember Eden? Maybe it was her short hair, but Eden even pinged my gayboy hormones.
 
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Oh was Eden the chick that pretended to be Suresh's neighbor? Brunette, real skinny? If so, that chick is just not my type, personally.
 
Speaking of cheap thrills, I must say I've been enjoying the shirtless Peter scenes the past couple episodes. :D
 
You're talking about hot girls and you don't remember Eden? Maybe it was her short hair, but Eden even pinged my gayboy hormones.

No offense but she looked like a boy so that's not a surprise :)

On the other hand she pinged my heteroboy hormones.

Reminds me of an episode of Friends where Chandler or was it Ross tried complimenting a woman on her short hair cut b/c it made her look like a young boy.
 
vacantlook said:
Strangely for me, this was the first episode this season that I haven't been absolutely annoyed by Claire's presence in the episode. Up to this point in the story, events of the moment haven't really given her much of an opportunity to just sit and talk to another powered person about discovering that they had powers. So her sympathizing with vortex man made appropriate sense to me.

Yeah, this made sense to me too, actually. But, the dynamic between her and her father is kind of an afterthought now, whereas it used to really dominate the story in a good way. I'll never forget in season 1 where she had to shoot her father in order to "get away from the company." That was an amazing episode.

I dug Eden because she was interesting. Kristen Bell was also interesting. These new heroes are just lame, imho. And she blew her brains out in order to keep Sylar from getting her power. Though, he seems to have some kind of persuasion tactic that he used throughout the rest of season 1/2. Not sure if that's something else, though.

I just feel like I have to forget what's already happened in a sense with this show.

Claire's mom (non bio) is still normal. I totally dig her, too. I hope she's around for a long time. And Lyle, though we never see him now.

Vortex guy was cool. A great character for so short a time kind of pissed me off.
 
Yeah, this made sense to me too, actually. But, the dynamic between her and her father is kind of an afterthought now, whereas it used to really dominate the story in a good way. I'll never forget in season 1 where she had to shoot her father in order to "get away from the company." That was an amazing episode.

And if I'm remembering the commentary on the season one DVDs correctly, it was with that episode that they began seriously change the direction of HRG as they hadn't planned on his character being a long term one.

Vortex guy was cool. A great character for so short a time kind of pissed me off.

Yeah, I actually liked vortex guy a lot too and would trade him for half a dozen of the regular characters.
 
Great to see Bubbles getting some love here.

But, the dynamic between her and her father is kind of an afterthought now, whereas it used to really dominate the story in a good way.

I disagree. The last episode ended with a really sour note between them. My guess is that this will be the start of Claire turning into the brunette villain or anti-hero we see in the future.

(Although I normally do not have a thing for blondes, Claire is definitely better as one)
 
My thoughts on tonight's show:

So, Papa Patrelli is Rogue: absorb someone's life and powers by touch? It's a scary power, worthy of a villain. But killing Adam does make him the cheap character that I've felt he was ever since his introduction as Kensei back at the beginning of season two. I still totally think that the Kensei story should have been so very better than it was. With how season one ended with Hiro back in time, I anticipated it would have been better, at least.

And so Hiro stabbing Ando was nothing but a "wow" moment, a plot stunt, and cheap. Hiro's repetitively being knocked out by Africa Isaac was pretty funny though.

I'm still tired of Bug!Mohinder. I guess one could argue that whatever it was that he injected himself with that's given him his weird growths and web creation ability is also the source in his sudden shift in personality, but I still find it characteristically untransitional. His personality didn't transition, it was just suddenly they made him crazy mad scientist man. At least, that's how I feel about his portion of the story this year.

Is Claire stupid or something to have gone in after her bio mom having read puppet man's file but not prepare better to deal with it? That Claire would be shot and heal during the gun scene was expected, but it did provide something: it showed once again that Claire's adoptive mother is one of the better characters on the show.

Daphne's part of the conversations with Parkman were also pretty good, though Parkman's side of the conversation was cliche.

So how did Sylar and Peter just randomly walk out of their cells to go see their comatose mother? How'd they know where she was in the first place? Is there no one working at the Company other than Mama Patrelli and a couple of grunts? Level 5 is supposed to be some super secure detention center, and yet people bust in and out right and left. It makes Level 5 even more cheap of a plot stunt.

So now they've written Papa Patrelli having taken Peter's powers. It kind of seems like a bit of housekeeping, if you will. It's like what jms said about the Great Machine of Epsilon 3. Once someone has access to huge ass power, it becomes more difficult to craft a story because there has to be a threat, and super powers can eliminate that threat, which is why stories develop things like kryptonite to weaken Superman. Looks like they just issued some kryptonite to Peter. But it does remind me of something, at the beginning of season two, they, whoever they are, took away Sylar's powers. It was never explained exactly who did that, or how, was it? They just had him without his powers under the eye of holographic girl until he escaped, hooked up with Maya and her pointless brother, until they got to Mohinder's place, and then I don't remember what happened to give Sylar his powers back.

So they're making Papa Patrelli's company the source of the genetic symbol they've had in the show a lot? I'm still wondering what the meaning of the symbol is in the past when Hiro popped back during Kensei's time to be on that flag.
 
My memory with this show is so incomplete it's sad. Can someone remind me why Hiro took Adam out of the coffin? I know it has something to do with Mama Patrelli having told Hiro that Hiro holds the key to everything, or some other excessively stated dialogue, and the next thing I remember was Hiro taking Adam out of the coffin. But now Adam's been turned to dust like he was a vampire killed by Buffy. So, I guess whatever on that point. The plot of this show really does feel like it's spinning in circles, but not quite a circle, more like whatever shape one of those three armed "scrambler" carnival rides makes.
 
Initial thoughts: the episodes seem to be getting better. It's like they got into a bad spot during the writer's strike and are trying to get back on track--or "a" track rather. It requires some forgetting of elements from the past, but I'm interested again.

Vacantlook said:

So, Papa Patrelli is Rogue: absorb someone's life and powers by touch? It's a scary power, worthy of a villain. But killing Adam does make him the cheap character that I've felt he was ever since his introduction as Kensei back at the beginning of season two. I still totally think that the Kensei story should have been so very better than it was. With how season one ended with Hiro back in time, I anticipated it would have been better, at least.

I think Adam was just some more "house cleaning" on behalf of the creator/writer. The Kensei storyline had to move so fast during season 2 and looking back now, it seems rather silly. Probably just removing that element for good so it won't be returned to.

And so Hiro stabbing Ando was nothing but a "wow" moment, a plot stunt, and cheap. Hiro's repetitively being knocked out by Africa Isaac was pretty funny though.

I was laughing as well. I like the African guy. I hope he fares better than "Mister Eee-sak."

I'm still tired of Bug!Mohinder. I guess one could argue that whatever it was that he injected himself with that's given him his weird growths and web creation ability is also the source in his sudden shift in personality, but I still find it characteristically untransitional. His personality didn't transition, it was just suddenly they made him crazy mad scientist man. At least, that's how I feel about his portion of the story this year.

Yeah. I'm not a Mohinder fan anymore. I liked him as the tortured scientist, desperately trying to follow his father's research and putting the pieces of his sister's ability (and other abilities) together.

Is Claire stupid or something to have gone in after her bio mom having read puppet man's file but not prepare better to deal with it? That Claire would be shot and heal during the gun scene was expected, but it did provide something: it showed once again that Claire's adoptive mother is one of the better characters on the show.

I just tossed that up to her being young. She'll make more mistakes. She's a teen and she knows she's invulnerable. That's a bad combo. :) But, Claire's mom is awesome. Both moms, actually. I'm excited to see what Noah and Bio-mom do as a team.


Daphne's part of the conversations with Parkman were also pretty good, though Parkman's side of the conversation was cliche.

Pfft, he's Parkman. He's not known for his witty conversations. I'll always think of him as Weiss from Alias, though. Speaking of Parkman, whatever happened to the agent he worked with in season 1? Clea Duvall's character?

So how did Sylar and Peter just randomly walk out of their cells to go see their comatose mother? How'd they know where she was in the first place? Is there no one working at the Company other than Mama Patrelli and a couple of grunts? Level 5 is supposed to be some super secure detention center, and yet people bust in and out right and left. It makes Level 5 even more cheap of a plot stunt.

Well, Daphne broke in, left the door open. That's how I saw it. Sylar just helped himself out. He's also in there by choice, so chances are he visits other areas or did in the past when he partnered with Noah. Probably looked around and found Mom, then found Peter. But, yeah, the weak security at Level 5 is umm . . . yeah. Viewers need a little more than what we were given tonight on that.

But it does remind me of something, at the beginning of season two, they, whoever they are, took away Sylar's powers. It was never explained exactly who did that, or how, was it? They just had him without his powers under the eye of holographic girl until he escaped, hooked up with Maya and her pointless brother, until they got to Mohinder's place, and then I don't remember what happened to give Sylar his powers back.

I don't think they "took his powers" away. I think he "died" and came back? Or being near to death like he was, the powers became latent? Or, he was kept in the hologram thinking he had lost his powers? He got his powers back. Hmm. I don't recall either. I know he spent all his time with whiny Maya and her super lame brother and he had to kill that dude w/o powers. Then, before the big showdown, he had them. Maybe that narrows the window for someone else to remember.

So they're making Papa Patrelli's company the source of the genetic symbol they've had in the show a lot? I'm still wondering what the meaning of the symbol is in the past when Hiro popped back during Kensei's time to be on that flag.

Adam is a mystery to me. He was the oldest one with powers that we knew of (having uncovered his power during battle in Feudal Japan and living to the present day.) Was he the first? Or was there someone else before? Perhaps Papa Petrelli is older and is also "immportal." Not sure. Good question, though.

My memory with this show is so incomplete it's sad. Can someone remind me why Hiro took Adam out of the coffin? I know it has something to do with Mama Patrelli having told Hiro that Hiro holds the key to everything, or some other excessively stated dialogue, and the next thing I remember was Hiro taking Adam out of the coffin. But now Adam's been turned to dust like he was a vampire killed by Buffy. So, I guess whatever on that point. The plot of this show really does feel like it's spinning in circles, but not quite a circle, more like whatever shape one of those three armed "scrambler" carnival rides makes.

Mama Petrelli suggested it because he would "know" how to find the person who could help them get the formula back. That's what I recall.
 
Initial thoughts: the episodes seem to be getting better. It's like they got into a bad spot during the writer's strike and are trying to get back on track--or "a" track rather. It requires some forgetting of elements from the past, but I'm interested again.

I've been poking around Wikipedia, and while it's not the grand arbiter of truth, I've read a couple of interesting things regarding the affect the writers' strike had on how the writers of Heroes wrote what they did. But more on that later.

...Speaking of Parkman, whatever happened to the agent he worked with in season 1? Clea Duvall's character?

She fell into the vortex that exists within the writers' minds, I guess.

I don't think they "took his powers" away. I think he "died" and came back? Or being near to death like he was, the powers became latent? Or, he was kept in the hologram thinking he had lost his powers? He got his powers back. Hmm. I don't recall either. I know he spent all his time with whiny Maya and her super lame brother and he had to kill that dude w/o powers. Then, before the big showdown, he had them. Maybe that narrows the window for someone else to remember.

Ok, I looked this part up on Wikipedia. It's never explained why Sylar had lost his powers. At the end of season one, Hiro stabs Sylar with the sword. While everyone else is busy dealing with Peter, who's about to explode, Sylar slips away down a sewer access hole leaving a trail of blood behind him. Sylar reappears in season two with the hologram girl; the two of them are in a shack in the middle of nowhere. She says he's there to recover from the surgery he had to keep him from dying from the sword stabbing. Who performed that surgery is never mentioned, but I assume that it was the Company because of the hologram girl being the one who's watching over Sylar, and she worked for the Company. Sylar mysteriously just can't use his powers. Why he can't is never explained. He gains his powers back at the end of season two when he injects himself with some of Claire's blood that he took from Mohinder.

Adam is a mystery to me. He was the oldest one with powers that we knew of (having uncovered his power during battle in Feudal Japan and living to the present day.) Was he the first? Or was there someone else before? Perhaps Papa Petrelli is older and is also "immportal." Not sure. Good question, though.

With both the helix symbol and the eclipse occurring when Hiro popped back in time, I always thought whatever happened there would be significant in the show's mythos, but the whole Kensei story and Adam seem to be absolutely insignificant now. With that eclipse happening when Hiro popped back in time, I expected to find some "hero" that was causing it to happen. But it seems more likely to me now that it's just a hollow symbol devised for nothing but to be Mysterious™.

Ok, here's what I mentioned earlier that I read on Wikipedia regarding how the story was changed as a result of the writers' strike.

"Powerless" (the last episode of season two)

...Kring and Arkush commented that they re-shot the scene in which Peter telekenetically caught the virus. In the original cut, the virus was to shatter and be released. Kring admitted that the virus being released was to play a huge role in Volume 3, however, they decided to go into a different direction and re-shoot the ending, allowing Peter to catch the virus and destroy it. Kring also commented that the scenes where Matt, Peter and Nathan were talking in the vault were rewritten in and added later, as well as the Press Conference scene and the scene with Angela Petrelli talking on the cell phone. Kring and Arkush stated that the ending had to be rewritten and re-shot because they did not know when the show would return to air, due to the Writer's Strike, and they wanted to make sure that they tied up all the loose ends.

It's kind of funny to me that they were concerned about loose ends considering half of the show is nothing but loose ends. So, maybe that Irish girl that I and others were talking about having just ended up as a loose end many posts back in this thread would have been in the story more had they continued with the virus plot the way they had originally planned.

As of the end of this episode, the status of three main characters remained undetermined. Niki Sanders was last seen inside a burning building which subsequently exploded, and Nathan Petrelli was shot while attempting to speak out against the Company. Their fates were left intentionally ambiguous because the writers were unsure of whether they wanted to proceed with Niki and Nathan's characters; decisions were made following the Writers' Strike resolution....

That the writers were so "unsure" about Niki and Nathan says a lot to me; mostly that significant portions of this show are being written by whim.

...Originally, Sylar was not supposed to get his abilities back due to Zachary Quinto's commitment to the new Star Trek film....

So, who knows what the original plan for Sylar's loss of abilities was if his getting them back was an unplanned change in the story.

Honestly, the more I read things like all this, the more I feel that this story is being told by someone standing across the room and throwing darts at a wall of index cards with plot elements on them and then just writing the ones they hit with darts together into a script.

And the Wikipedia list of episodes has this as part of a description for an upcoming episode:

"...Meredith watches her life go up in smokes, following the arrival of her hot-headed brother."

I swear to God that if they have that guy who uses blue fire be Meredith's brother I'm going to shit my own brain.

581as0.jpg

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Just to recap: these three images are of Zuko and Azula, brother and sister characters from Avatar The Last Airbender. One of them uses regular colored fire, and the other of whom uses hotter, blue colored fire. I'll especially will shit my brain given that there seems to be two episodes coming up on Heroes, according the Wikipedia episode list, titled "The Eclipse, Part 1" and "The Eclipse, Part 2". The third season Avatar midseason hiatus was two episodes entitled "The Day of Black Sun, Part 1: The Invasion" and "The Day of Black Sun, Part 2: The Eclipse" telling the story of an eclipse-centered event that had been long foreshadowed in the show.
 
And so Hiro stabbing Ando was nothing but a "wow" moment, a plot stunt, and cheap. Hiro's repetitively being knocked out by Africa Isaac was pretty funny though.

I couldn't believe Speed Girl and Marlo just took that stabbing at face value, knowing Hiro's abilties.

Ando: "They all looks the same"
Hiro: "That's racist"

heh

I'm still tired of Bug!Mohinder. I guess one could argue that whatever it was that he injected himself with that's given him his weird growths and web creation ability is also the source in his sudden shift in personality, but I still find it characteristically untransitional. His personality didn't transition, it was just suddenly they made him crazy mad scientist man. At least, that's how I feel about his portion of the story this year.

This episode he shared screen time with the two most boring characters, so at least they crammed all the annoying stuff together.

Is Claire stupid or something to have gone in after her bio mom having read puppet man's file but not prepare better to deal with it?

Claire's power is awesome but not really that great in a battle. She wins by, what, dying until the other guy gets tired?

In a Heroes Battle Royal, Peter Petrelli (before this last ep, of course) would win.

So how did Sylar and Peter just randomly walk out of their cells to go see their comatose mother? How'd they know where she was in the first place? Is there no one working at the Company other than Mama Patrelli and a couple of grunts? Level 5 is supposed to be some super secure detention center, and yet people bust in and out right and left. It makes Level 5 even more cheap of a plot stunt.

With Kristen Bell out of commission and who knows how many people Ma Petrelli fed to her monster child, the facility is probably really weak. Non-superheroes wouldn't have a prayer of defending the place by themselves against people like Speed Girl and the Petrelli Bros. I'm sure they could have easily just knocked somem heads around to get to her, they didn't have to show that kind of detail.

Pfft, he's Parkman. He's not known for his witty conversations. I'll always think of him as Weiss from Alias, though. S

I've not seen Alias. I think of Parkman as the Miles O'Brien character, the "regular" doofy guy, and therefore probably my favorite character on the show (probably because I just don't particularly like any of these people, really)


I agree with Alluveal- the episodes are starting to play better. I'm just going to pretend season 2 never happened.
 
I
Ok, I looked this part up on Wikipedia. It's never explained why Sylar had lost his powers. At the end of season one, Hiro stabs Sylar with the sword. While everyone else is busy dealing with Peter, who's about to explode, Sylar slips away down a sewer access hole leaving a trail of blood behind him. Sylar reappears in season two with the hologram girl; the two of them are in a shack in the middle of nowhere. She says he's there to recover from the surgery he had to keep him from dying from the sword stabbing. Who performed that surgery is never mentioned, but I assume that it was the Company because of the hologram girl being the one who's watching over Sylar, and she worked for the Company. Sylar mysteriously just can't use his powers. Why he can't is never explained. He gains his powers back at the end of season two when he injects himself with some of Claire's blood that he took from Mohinder.

I do believe it was explained in the series. He had contracted the same virus as Nikki and it was inhibiting his abilities.... that's why he was so keen to encounter Mohinder... he was after the cure. However it was a quick fix and didn't completely restore him. Thus knowing that Claire's blood had been a key component in the "cure", he went after the source...

...or did I just hallucinate all that?
 
My thoughts so far on tonight's episode:

So, Sylar breaks out of his cell again and gets to Mama Patrelli without anyone in security knowing. Security really sucks in Primatech.

Maya's no longer got her powers. I hope that's the end of her character; she was incredibly boring as it was. And now, she gets to join Adam in being a character introduced that's completely worthless.

And then there's Papa Patrelli now having killed Parkman's father. I guess we'll never learn how Maury escaped from his own nightmare that Parkman trapped him in last season. Interesting twist in that Maury was working with Patrelli in exchange for his son's safety. Maury was the one single person that Molly said (was it last season or season one, whatever) she was afraid to look for, thus making Maury some big bad. Wasn't even Mama Patrelli scared of Maury in season two? Anyway, he's dead now. So that makes him join Adam and Maya in being worthless.

Elle proves yet again to be one of the few characters in this show that I still am interested in. With how off the writing seems anymore, I have to credit that to Kristen Bell's acting ability.

So, Knox "kills" Daphne and Parkman. Yeah. As soon as he punched through Parkman, I said outloud, "Welcome to a second season episode of Babylon 5." Parkman making Knox "experience" what he did was so obvious to me. That Daphne played Parkman into doing it though was a moderately interesting twist.

I really don't have words for what I think about Papa Patrelli/Sylar/Peter in this episode. Watching their scenes seemed like such a waste of time. Nathan and Tracy were equally yawn worthy.
 
Yeah, level 5 is gimpy. What the heck?

Sylar saved Peter. He has his momma-fixation right now and I'm not sure that can be changed, even by Papa Petrelli's nasty bathtime story.

Tracy and Claire's bio-mom facing off were interesting: fire and ice. Meeooww! hiss hiss.

Hiro, wtf? He's useless. Go back in time you pansy and save some peeps. Stop being a whiny little baby. No wonder Ando kills you in an alternate future.

Peter obviously gets his powers back at some point because future Peter has uberness. Bet he'll get his scar before that, though. Give the peeps in make-up something to do other than refresh Claire's lipgloss.

Forgive the nastiness. I'm just not excited about Heroes anymore. Kristen Bell is awesome, though.
 
I had totally forgotten about Hiro in this episode. His and Ando's presence was so insignificant they might as well just not have been in the episode.

I wonder if there is a specific event that they have planned for Peter to get that scar, or if the scar is just something they put on Future Peter to make him more "hardcore". I had thought way back in season one that the scar would come somehow from Hiro's sword. It just seemed to fit too easily, but who knows anymore. Oh, and speaking of that, what happened to Hiro's sword?

And seriously, African Isaac's power is to create precognition-inducing hyena shit? Did Isaac never paint anything in front of Hiro and Ando? Because I really felt that Ando's freaking out over Hiro going all precog was excessive.

So, I guess Nathan's hallucinating Linderman is over (without any resolution) given that Maury is now dead. I wonder if Nathan's God fixation will evaporate too.
 
I wonder if there is a specific event that they have planned for Peter to get that scar, or if the scar is just something they put on Future Peter to make him more "hardcore". I had thought way back in season one that the scar would come somehow from Hiro's sword. It just seemed to fit too easily, but who knows anymore. Oh, and speaking of that, what happened to Hiro's sword?

Haven't watched this show in like 4 weeks, and I really dont miss it. But speaking of plot absurdities, regarding Future Peter's scar...it never made sense to me. The dude has the power to heal/regenerate himself at any time. Do whats with even having a scar? Whatever wound it was would have regenerated instantly before a scar ever formed. Dumb. Just dumb.
 
Haven't watched this show in like 4 weeks, and I really dont miss it. But speaking of plot absurdities, regarding Future Peter's scar...it never made sense to me. The dude has the power to heal/regenerate himself at any time. Do whats with even having a scar? Whatever wound it was would have regenerated instantly before a scar ever formed. Dumb. Just dumb.

Since you're not watching--Peter had his powers removed. I imagine the scar will happen during this time.
 
Peter obviously gets his powers back at some point because future Peter has uberness.

Strictly speaking those two facts don't have to be related - Peters little trip to the future will leave him trying to avoid that future by his actions so things in the current timeline will have changed. I'm not saying that it won't happen like that... but I'm just recognising the importance of the "Butterfly Effect" (which is also conveniently picked up and put down at will by the writers).

Since you're not watching--Peter had his powers removed. I imagine the scar will happen during this time.
Will he retain the ability to learn others powers though? If he does, he can just walk right up to his dad and take 'em back.

Or will he try to stove in his dad's head and pick his brains apart and try to emulate Sylar sans his power?

Or will he get the scar by a benevolent Sylar opening up his head in order to fix him? I can't see that working as Peter would need the ability to heal to prevent his own demise.

Another way to resolve the issue would be for him to inject himself with the formula (if it is retrieved). Seeing as Peter already has a power naturally... it might lead to him reacquiring it. Mohinder said something early on about the gene and the brain not being the only things responsible for the power. (They must have changed the emphasis from the brain for some reason.... however whacked out that reason turns out to be).
 
Since you're not watching--Peter had his powers removed. I imagine the scar will happen during this time.

But again, the Logic Nazi has to step in here at some point. He clearly has his powers BACK at some point in the future --- including the regeneration. As soon as he gets it back: bye bye scar tissue...
 

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