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IT'S DEAD, JIM?
- Thread starter B5_Obsessed
- Start date
sleepy_shadow
Regular
Re: IT\'S DEAD, JIM?
Most likely other components of the recipe.
Or whether it would make money (and how much).
Most likely other components of the recipe.
Or whether it would make money (and how much).
PillowRock
Regular
Re: IT\'S DEAD, JIM?
One possibility (and it is only a possibility / guess) is creative control. If they only wanted to hire him as a writer; who could then be re-written / modified by the director, producers, and with te studio having final say over the final edit .... and he wanted to retain some veto power over what they did, or have final edit power.
I don't know.
One possibility (and it is only a possibility / guess) is creative control. If they only wanted to hire him as a writer; who could then be re-written / modified by the director, producers, and with te studio having final say over the final edit .... and he wanted to retain some veto power over what they did, or have final edit power.
colonyearth
Regular
Re: IT\'S DEAD, JIM?
The problem here, folks was not really, fully with WB. It was with the people WB allowed to try to pretend to be producers for a third party company. Alain Gottesman is no producer. He's tried and failed to get one other movie made. He is nothing less than an idiot who doesn't know what the hell he's doing. It was Gottesman and Rosen (who is also not a producer and has never produced a film before) who wanted stars to replace the cast, not WB.
Where WB dropped the ball, was when they didn't feel that B5 was a big enough draw (since it was based on a TV series) to make themselves, so they handed it off to a third party with the agreement to distribute the film. That third party was Gottesman and Rosen, who as stated above are brainless idiots.
You also have to realize that historically, WB is not big on science fiction. Universal (FIREFLY) and Fox (SW) and even Paramount (ST) are much more SF friendly. It is really a shame that they own B5 and not one of the more SF friendly studios....if that were the case, we'd most likely be on our second B5 film by now.
So...ulitimately, this was not JMS' fault, nor was it the fault of the campaign. We did what we set out to do...we saved the cast from being replaced. Because we demanded the original cast, the producers acted shamelessly and the plug was pulled.
We now know that the full cast was in the film (as I've said all along). We also know (if you read what Mira actually said) that even she believes that the film will eventually get made and that it's still floating around.
What good has come from this? First, we and JMS kept B5's integrity and quality from being sold to the moronic, wanna-be producers for a fast buck. That is great news!
Secondly, we and JMS now know that WB is willing to allow a third party producer and production complany to make a B5 film without them as long as they distribute it. This means that if JMS feels up to it after fighting through what he must've just gone through for so long, can work with Netter and try to seek some new backers and/or producers (ones who know what the fuck they're doing) and make this film.
As stated above, if FIREFLY does really well, it could help to convince WB or some other producer/ money-finder that there's big money and potential in B5 and the film will go forward.
There was some great news that come from all of this. We know the fans of B5 are heard and we know that WB isn't insisting on doing B5 themselves, that they're willing to let someone else do it if they get a piece of the cut and distribution rights. In the end, those are very important revelations.
I'm with Mira and some other fans and members of the War Council in my belief that this film will be made. Perhaps not as soon as we all were hoping, but a B5 feature will happen one day...and I'm not thinking it will be that far off.
I will leave you all with this one thought: It took 10 yrs. to make "GHOST." ST went through one revival after another, one incarnation after another, before TMP was finally made (and after that one the rest is history). As for FIREFLY, Whedon actively shopped it around after it was cancelled and fought to get the film made...now JMS realizes he can do the same...perhaps he will.
Many of the best films, the greatest films, and the lasting franchises went through many attempts and incarnations before they were made. This was the first time anyone tried to make B5 as a feature film. Trust me...it won't be the last.
JMS wants to tell this story (the CRUSADE story that he says was shot dead in it cradle). JMS loves this universe, but will fight tooth and nail to maintain its integrity (which I deeply and fervently respect). B5 will always...endure.
The victory handed to us upon plates of gold and silver have little meaning when one has not passed through the fire to achieve it. Our fire...still burns around us. Soon, we will pass through it...to victory!
Faith [continues to] manage!
CE
The problem here, folks was not really, fully with WB. It was with the people WB allowed to try to pretend to be producers for a third party company. Alain Gottesman is no producer. He's tried and failed to get one other movie made. He is nothing less than an idiot who doesn't know what the hell he's doing. It was Gottesman and Rosen (who is also not a producer and has never produced a film before) who wanted stars to replace the cast, not WB.
Where WB dropped the ball, was when they didn't feel that B5 was a big enough draw (since it was based on a TV series) to make themselves, so they handed it off to a third party with the agreement to distribute the film. That third party was Gottesman and Rosen, who as stated above are brainless idiots.
You also have to realize that historically, WB is not big on science fiction. Universal (FIREFLY) and Fox (SW) and even Paramount (ST) are much more SF friendly. It is really a shame that they own B5 and not one of the more SF friendly studios....if that were the case, we'd most likely be on our second B5 film by now.
So...ulitimately, this was not JMS' fault, nor was it the fault of the campaign. We did what we set out to do...we saved the cast from being replaced. Because we demanded the original cast, the producers acted shamelessly and the plug was pulled.
We now know that the full cast was in the film (as I've said all along). We also know (if you read what Mira actually said) that even she believes that the film will eventually get made and that it's still floating around.
What good has come from this? First, we and JMS kept B5's integrity and quality from being sold to the moronic, wanna-be producers for a fast buck. That is great news!
Secondly, we and JMS now know that WB is willing to allow a third party producer and production complany to make a B5 film without them as long as they distribute it. This means that if JMS feels up to it after fighting through what he must've just gone through for so long, can work with Netter and try to seek some new backers and/or producers (ones who know what the fuck they're doing) and make this film.
As stated above, if FIREFLY does really well, it could help to convince WB or some other producer/ money-finder that there's big money and potential in B5 and the film will go forward.
There was some great news that come from all of this. We know the fans of B5 are heard and we know that WB isn't insisting on doing B5 themselves, that they're willing to let someone else do it if they get a piece of the cut and distribution rights. In the end, those are very important revelations.
I'm with Mira and some other fans and members of the War Council in my belief that this film will be made. Perhaps not as soon as we all were hoping, but a B5 feature will happen one day...and I'm not thinking it will be that far off.
I will leave you all with this one thought: It took 10 yrs. to make "GHOST." ST went through one revival after another, one incarnation after another, before TMP was finally made (and after that one the rest is history). As for FIREFLY, Whedon actively shopped it around after it was cancelled and fought to get the film made...now JMS realizes he can do the same...perhaps he will.
Many of the best films, the greatest films, and the lasting franchises went through many attempts and incarnations before they were made. This was the first time anyone tried to make B5 as a feature film. Trust me...it won't be the last.
JMS wants to tell this story (the CRUSADE story that he says was shot dead in it cradle). JMS loves this universe, but will fight tooth and nail to maintain its integrity (which I deeply and fervently respect). B5 will always...endure.
The victory handed to us upon plates of gold and silver have little meaning when one has not passed through the fire to achieve it. Our fire...still burns around us. Soon, we will pass through it...to victory!
Faith [continues to] manage!
CE
Shaal Mayan
Regular
Re: IT\'S DEAD, JIM?
Thanks CE .
Thanks CE .
colonyearth
Regular
Re: IT\'S DEAD, JIM?
Always my pleasure
Always my pleasure
Shaal Mayan
Regular
Re: IT\'S DEAD, JIM?
I have been weavering on weather to support JMS and the cast I now have a good reason to.I am one of the anger and frustrated posters BTW . CE you don't anything about the quote book or the novels do you ?
I have been weavering on weather to support JMS and the cast I now have a good reason to.I am one of the anger and frustrated posters BTW . CE you don't anything about the quote book or the novels do you ?
colonyearth
Regular
Re: IT\'S DEAD, JIM?
To my knowledge the quote book is still coming.
CE
To my knowledge the quote book is still coming.
CE
Chris Springob
Regular
Re: IT\'S DEAD, JIM?
OK, I'm definitely convinced now that Mira said this. We seem to have confirmation from multiple sources on that. However, Mira is our lone source on the underlying story--that the project is "dead", at least for the time being. I just want to make sure Mira isn't misinterpreting things. It may be that she was told that her services wouldn't be required in TMoS, and she took that to mean that the project was finished.
So CE, I'm wondering if your own sources can confirm that this true. In your post, you seem pretty confident that the story is true. Are you basing that solely on Mira, or do you have independent confirmation?
OK, I'm definitely convinced now that Mira said this. We seem to have confirmation from multiple sources on that. However, Mira is our lone source on the underlying story--that the project is "dead", at least for the time being. I just want to make sure Mira isn't misinterpreting things. It may be that she was told that her services wouldn't be required in TMoS, and she took that to mean that the project was finished.
So CE, I'm wondering if your own sources can confirm that this true. In your post, you seem pretty confident that the story is true. Are you basing that solely on Mira, or do you have independent confirmation?
Shaal Mayan
Regular
Re: IT\'S DEAD, JIM?
Thanks Jan for the info.
Thanks Jan for the info.
StarForBram
Regular
Re: IT\'S DEAD, JIM?
This is incredibly sad news. No wonder I almost NEVER go see movies any more.
This is incredibly sad news. No wonder I almost NEVER go see movies any more.
colonyearth
Regular
Re: IT\'S DEAD, JIM?
I have not been able to get any further information on this, TPTB are keeping a tight lip about this, which could be both a good or a bad thing.
I am basing my statements on the quote of exactly what Mira said and my knowledge of what was going on via my contact...then filling in a couple of holes with some good ole fashioned common sense.
I do not believe this is the last we've heard of B5 as a feature...even TMoS. As Mira said, "it's floating around." Nothing is dead in Hollywood.
CE
I have not been able to get any further information on this, TPTB are keeping a tight lip about this, which could be both a good or a bad thing.
I am basing my statements on the quote of exactly what Mira said and my knowledge of what was going on via my contact...then filling in a couple of holes with some good ole fashioned common sense.
I do not believe this is the last we've heard of B5 as a feature...even TMoS. As Mira said, "it's floating around." Nothing is dead in Hollywood.
CE
A_M_Swallow
Regular
Re: IT\'S DEAD, JIM?
Now that is the bit I do not understand. Why make a spin off film when you do not like the tv show?
I could just about imagine some high up executive, who has never watched the tv show, wanting to put his own people in. (I would recommend that next time he buys his cocaine from a less dubious dealer.) But a producer putting his own money in!?!?
To survive a businessman has to fall in love with his business. There is no love here, there may not even be sufficient lust for rape. Pillage only works when someone else made the money.
Now that is the bit I do not understand. Why make a spin off film when you do not like the tv show?
I could just about imagine some high up executive, who has never watched the tv show, wanting to put his own people in. (I would recommend that next time he buys his cocaine from a less dubious dealer.) But a producer putting his own money in!?!?
To survive a businessman has to fall in love with his business. There is no love here, there may not even be sufficient lust for rape. Pillage only works when someone else made the money.
A_M_Swallow
Regular
Re: IT\'S DEAD, JIM?
NEW BABYLON 5 PRODUCTION LIMITED (id = 05155023) was probably a £100 ($200) company. Is it not up for sale? I will bid £110.00
NEW BABYLON 5 PRODUCTION LIMITED (id = 05155023) was probably a £100 ($200) company. Is it not up for sale? I will bid £110.00
Re: IT\'S DEAD, JIM?
Cast members never know the full picture anyway - we've been pointed in the wrong direction by them multiple times...
I'll be interested to hear what JMS has to say on the matter. I'm pretty convinced the project is dead (for now), but I'd like to know a bit more!
Cast members never know the full picture anyway - we've been pointed in the wrong direction by them multiple times...
I'll be interested to hear what JMS has to say on the matter. I'm pretty convinced the project is dead (for now), but I'd like to know a bit more!
tlsmith1963
Regular
Re: IT\'S DEAD, JIM?
Thanks, CE. And now I know that Mira didn't say that B5 was finished forever...whew! I can wait a little longer for the movie if JMS can find the right people to help make it, people who will let him do the film *his* way. Better to have a good film made later than a bad film now.
Tammy
Thanks, CE. And now I know that Mira didn't say that B5 was finished forever...whew! I can wait a little longer for the movie if JMS can find the right people to help make it, people who will let him do the film *his* way. Better to have a good film made later than a bad film now.
Tammy
Chris Springob
Regular
Re: IT\'S DEAD, JIM?
JMS has commented on this in the moderated group:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm putting this here because the new message threader I sent eaerlier
is taking a while to move through the system. So this info will repeat
soonish on another subject.
jms
-----------------------------------------------
The rule of thumb in Hollywood is that for every thousand scripts that
get written, only a few dozen get into development, and out of those,
only one will ever get made...if that.
A little over a year ago, I was approached by a company that wanted to
make a Babylon 5 movie. They optioned the rights, and commissioned a
script. (It's worth mentioning that I, not WB, own the rights to a B5
movie. When we were negotiating the original B5 deal -- by whose terms
I will never see a dime in profit -- the one thing they did let me have
were the movie rights, figuring they'd never be worth anything in the
long run.)
Anyway...on December 27th of 2003, the script for "The Memory of
Shadows" was turned in, and the process began of trying to make the
deal work with all the various forces involved. It is, to say the
least, a very difficult process on any movie where the studio does not
directly take the financial reins. In terms of B5, Warner's position
was esssentially, "We only do big-budget movies with big names, so
you're on your own." If there were big-name movie actors in the film,
they'd get behind it; without that, things become very problematic,
especially as far as the financing was concerned. You much have to put
together a consortium of international interests and business plans
rivaled in complexity only by the Allied invasion of Normandy Beach.
Nonetheless, every attempt was made by the people involved to get this
deal in place. This was not being done by Doug or myself, but rather
by the company/individuals who approached us and optioned the rights.
At times, it seemed we were inches away from a deal...stages were
reserved at Elstree, actors were contacted, a director was in place,
the script went through many revisions, a few key staff were hired,
again not by me...it was really a year-long roller coaster ride.
During that time, the people involved, with every good intention, tried
very hard to pull the necessary pieces together on the deal. The
option expired in late December 2004, but I renewed it without cost, to
give those involved more time to try and make things work.
In the end, however, the deal could not be put together, and it did not
look as if that was going to change at any point in the foreseeable
future. So the option has reverted, and to all intents and purposes,
the project has dead ended. Nor do I think this particular incarnation
will arise again at any point in the future, though prognostication has
always been a tricky art, especially if you have to do it without the
benefit of hindsight.
This was not the first time someone's taken a run at a B5 feature film,
and it will not be the last. Eventually it will happen, because such
things are simply inevitable. If they can do a Brady Bunch movie, you
can be sure that sooner or later, somebody's going to do a B5 movie.
The only thing I can say without equivocation is that when that day
comes, as the rights-holder, I will make darned sure that it's done
right, because I'd rather have no B5 movie than one that doesn't live
up to what fans and I myself would want to see.
To that end...I can wait.
Anyway, just thought you should know the story.
jms
copyright (c) 2005 by
Synthetic Worlds, Ltd.
Reprint permission specifically
denied to SFX Magazine
JMS has commented on this in the moderated group:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm putting this here because the new message threader I sent eaerlier
is taking a while to move through the system. So this info will repeat
soonish on another subject.
jms
-----------------------------------------------
The rule of thumb in Hollywood is that for every thousand scripts that
get written, only a few dozen get into development, and out of those,
only one will ever get made...if that.
A little over a year ago, I was approached by a company that wanted to
make a Babylon 5 movie. They optioned the rights, and commissioned a
script. (It's worth mentioning that I, not WB, own the rights to a B5
movie. When we were negotiating the original B5 deal -- by whose terms
I will never see a dime in profit -- the one thing they did let me have
were the movie rights, figuring they'd never be worth anything in the
long run.)
Anyway...on December 27th of 2003, the script for "The Memory of
Shadows" was turned in, and the process began of trying to make the
deal work with all the various forces involved. It is, to say the
least, a very difficult process on any movie where the studio does not
directly take the financial reins. In terms of B5, Warner's position
was esssentially, "We only do big-budget movies with big names, so
you're on your own." If there were big-name movie actors in the film,
they'd get behind it; without that, things become very problematic,
especially as far as the financing was concerned. You much have to put
together a consortium of international interests and business plans
rivaled in complexity only by the Allied invasion of Normandy Beach.
Nonetheless, every attempt was made by the people involved to get this
deal in place. This was not being done by Doug or myself, but rather
by the company/individuals who approached us and optioned the rights.
At times, it seemed we were inches away from a deal...stages were
reserved at Elstree, actors were contacted, a director was in place,
the script went through many revisions, a few key staff were hired,
again not by me...it was really a year-long roller coaster ride.
During that time, the people involved, with every good intention, tried
very hard to pull the necessary pieces together on the deal. The
option expired in late December 2004, but I renewed it without cost, to
give those involved more time to try and make things work.
In the end, however, the deal could not be put together, and it did not
look as if that was going to change at any point in the foreseeable
future. So the option has reverted, and to all intents and purposes,
the project has dead ended. Nor do I think this particular incarnation
will arise again at any point in the future, though prognostication has
always been a tricky art, especially if you have to do it without the
benefit of hindsight.
This was not the first time someone's taken a run at a B5 feature film,
and it will not be the last. Eventually it will happen, because such
things are simply inevitable. If they can do a Brady Bunch movie, you
can be sure that sooner or later, somebody's going to do a B5 movie.
The only thing I can say without equivocation is that when that day
comes, as the rights-holder, I will make darned sure that it's done
right, because I'd rather have no B5 movie than one that doesn't live
up to what fans and I myself would want to see.
To that end...I can wait.
Anyway, just thought you should know the story.
jms
copyright (c) 2005 by
Synthetic Worlds, Ltd.
Reprint permission specifically
denied to SFX Magazine
Re: IT\'S DEAD, JIM?
I am not sure what impact the fan campaign had but the fact I stated about WB not wanting the original cast proved to be correct as per the latest JMS post. This had nothing to with the producers working with JMS as conlonyearth stated. The financing of the project obviously failed and as a result of that the WB features division was involved to try to save it...and from that action the recasting issue must have arisen.
Having said that I must say that I agree with JMS. If a B5 feature is made it should be done the right way and that includes the original cast portraying their characters.
I am not sure what impact the fan campaign had but the fact I stated about WB not wanting the original cast proved to be correct as per the latest JMS post. This had nothing to with the producers working with JMS as conlonyearth stated. The financing of the project obviously failed and as a result of that the WB features division was involved to try to save it...and from that action the recasting issue must have arisen.
Having said that I must say that I agree with JMS. If a B5 feature is made it should be done the right way and that includes the original cast portraying their characters.
