Jumpgates ARE coloured!!

[Capt. Neville]

Except for, as I pointed out, the generally-accepted precedence set by B5 and the comments from jms relating to the very concept. The only thing that *does* track is, as I also pointed out, the single, sole example in Crusade. At least, as far as I can recall.

It also does not explain the Hand ships' entrance. Or the first exit of two of the three ships (forgot about that one). As, again, I pointed out.

Whether the Liandra just closely paralleled the Valen wasn't my question/point. Whether it is allowed in established/canon B5 tech *is*.

Don't get me wrong, I thought B5LR *rocked*. But then again, given how closely they've made sure in the past that their tech was always consistent, I found these problems to be....surprising, at the least.

Cheers,
--mcn

 

[Capt. Neville]

Yes, I'll grant you that most of our jumpgate cannon tech knowledge is based on EA ships. However, compared to something like accuracy of the jumppoint location, it would seem that the jumppoint effect being confined to a very close proximity around the ship would be a rather consistent, er, point. Note that, IIRC, even Vorlon ships all created their own jumppoints, rather than relying on a single jumppoint from the larger ship. (Since I do not have the episode at hand, I would like to point out that that is working from a slightly dated memory--can someone confirm or refute this for me?)

--mcn



[This message has been edited by Capt. Neville (edited February 11, 2002).]

 

[KoshN]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Capt. Neville:
Having recently rewatched the movie, I noticed something else I hadn't before...

When the Valen and the Liandra first jump out of hyperspace, the Valen creates its *own* jumppoint (rather than using a gate), but we cannot see another jumppoint for the Liandra.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No, it came out of the same jumppoint as the Valen, to our left of the Valen. It's hard to see at first because it's so small.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Capt. Neville:
B5 established, via examples and jms's notes on the public forums, that a jumppoint created by a ship basically folded very closely against that ship, with the result that no other ship could use that same jumppoint (hence why EA ships couldn't launch fighters before opening their own jumppoint, among other examples).

The *only* time I can think of this being contradicted was in Crusade where, IIRC, Galen followed the Excaliber through its jumppoint.

So, either Galen's ship and the Liandra are both advanced enough to ride close to another ship as it jumps, or we can count this as Nitpicker's Jumpgate Inconsistency #1.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

For Galen and his ship, this is probably very easy to do. For the Liandra, well, it is a Minbari ship, and they're more precise in placing their jumppoints (remember what Sheridan said In the Beginning right before they were ambushed by the Blackstar)?


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Capt. Neville:
Now for another: the Hand ships that jump out to attack the Valen and the Liandra *also* come out of a single jump point, and clearly come out in sequential order (rather than all close by each other). This would seem to lend weight to the first Inconsistency being exactly that, since this is just a more pronounced form of it.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

IIRC, they came out in a triangular formation, one at a time, about 1/2 second apart. As long as they cleared the jumppoint before it started to collapse, or were not in the way as a jumppoint started to form, they should have been OK. Remember, both of these hazards happened to Drakh fighters as the Excalibur and Victory jumped to hyperspace near Daltron 7 in A Call to Arms.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Capt. Neville:
Now for a third, albeit only possible inconsistency: at the end, somebody (mind blanks on who ATM) declares "nearing Epsilon jumpgate", yet they quite clearly make their *own* jump point rather than using the gate. Even if we chalk this up to jms simply not wanting to state "nearing Babylon 5" and thus ruining the "surprise" (note the quotes around "surprise"), this seems quite odd, since its an established fact that even ships that can create their own jump points use gates when possible to save energy. It's not like they're trying to sneak up on any of Clark's EA forces sent to take over B5 or anything...

So anyway. I'm done tearing apart the jumpgates and jump points. Again. For now.

Cheers,
--mcn <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'll go look again, but I thought I could barely see the jumpgate structure when they came out of the Epsilon jumpgate. It's hard to see given the new, brighter, whiter jumppoints.

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KoshN
-------------
Vorlon Empire

Crusade (reruns) starting 03/26/2002 at 1PM EST on the Sci-Fi Channel
http://www.scifi.com/b5rangers/

[This message has been edited by KoshN (edited February 11, 2002).]

 

[**DONOTDELETE**]

In episodes like No Surrender, No Retreat, and Between The Darkness and the Light a number of WhiteStars emerge from the same jump point (not a gate). I suppose in that case, the jump engines of each WhiteStar work in concert to keep the jump point open.

Here's a word from the JMS section on Lurkers:

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>In "Severed Dreams," the dilemma faced by the Alexander in the teaser is that if they jump, they'll end up leaving their fighters behind. A jump engine rips the area open for that one ship, and closes it again right behind it. What sometimes happens, as in "All Alone," is that *as a ship comes out*, it releases its fighters. But you can't just follow a ship into a jump point formed by another ship. You'd probably get torn apart when space folded back on you, because the field opening the point is primarily around the other ship.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
The Excalibur and Victory used that against the Drakh...

Galens ship is fast enough to catch a jumping ship and follow it in. EA fighters probably could as well, but in a combat situation, with a Heavy Cruiser parked on your hind quarters, it may be suicide.

------------------
-- IceFire

 

[ShadowmageGalen]

I think the advanced Minbari tech allows multiple ships to jump. I think, and it has been a while, so don't quote me, but in the Crusade ep with Dr. Franklin, didn't Excalibur jump after the Drakh mother ship before pulling in its fighters and didn't Lochley lead the fighters into the jump point with Excalibur? There may have been a gate there, I don't know, but I don't remember one.

Maybe JMS changed his mind on that point of one ship per jumppoint, or maybe he only meant it to be that way for the less advanced races, or maybe its a combination of both. It doesn't bother me, and I like the new look of hyperspace, and the points are kinda cool too. The look of a jumppoint changing because of our advances in graphics tech or what-have-you does not rate up there in the realm of show breakers for me.

But to each his own. Let's hope we can argue about it with a series to judge the effects.

SmG

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The Truth IS.....

OUT of fashion.

 

[KoshN]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ShadowmageGalen:
I think the advanced Minbari tech allows multiple ships to jump. I think, and it has been a while, so don't quote me, but in the Crusade ep with Dr. Franklin, didn't Excalibur jump after the Drakh mother ship before pulling in its fighters and didn't Lochley lead the fighters into the jump point with Excalibur? There may have been a gate there, I don't know, but I don't remember one.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

True. Lochley ordered all the fighters in close to the Excalibur.

There was no jumpgate there. They rode in in the Drakh mothership's jumppoint because the Excaliburs jump engines weren't recharged yet (which, by the way I thought was weak; Excalibur's jump engines should have been recharged by then). JMS even had Gideon do a whole explanation to Matheson about it.


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ShadowmageGalen:
Maybe JMS changed his mind on that point of one ship per jumppoint, or maybe he only meant it to be that way for the less advanced races, or maybe its a combination of both. It doesn't bother me, and I like the new look of hyperspace, and the points are kinda cool too. The look of a jumppoint changing because of our advances in graphics tech or what-have-you does not rate up there in the realm of show breakers for me.

But to each his own. Let's hope we can argue about it with a series to judge the effects.

SmG

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't mind the texture of the new jumppoints. I just wish they'd match the colors of the old B5S5 or Crusade jumppoints. That should be easy to do.

------------------
KoshN
-------------
Vorlon Empire

Crusade (reruns) starting 03/26/2002 at 1PM EST on the Sci-Fi Channel

http://www.scifi.com/b5rangers/

 

[Capt. Neville]

Agree with KoshN: like the new textures, just wish they had matched the color. Oh well. And I had forgotten about that particular Crusade episode, thanks. So I guess it *is* cannon then. *shrugs*

Oh well. It makes more sense to me for each ship to open their own jumppoint, but since this has been reduced from what-is-logical-in-the-B5-universe to what-makes-sense-to-little-ol-me, I'll shut up now

Cheers,
-mcn

 

[KoshN]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LightNZ:
Just got this from The Firstones forums

http://jumpgates.tripod.com/jumpgate_blue.jpg

http://jumpgates.tripod.com/jumpgate_red.jpg

Just like they always have been, orange and blue - very clever actually, nice spotting

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

TLaDiS:
Valen & Liandra Entry Jumppoint Center: R250/G252/B239

Valen & Liandra Exit Jumppoint Center: R248/G248/B248 (or off-white; it just looks blue next to the entry one)

where 255/255/255 is pure white.


------------------
KoshN
-------------
Vorlon Empire

Crusade (reruns) starting 03/26/2002 at 1PM EST on the Sci-Fi Channel

http://www.scifi.com/b5rangers/

 

[KoshN]

Size of The Valen compared to the Snowflake ships.

There was a thread somewhere comparing the sizes of the two. Can't find it now. Anyway, here's a screencap:

------------------
KoshN
-------------
Vorlon Empire

Crusade (reruns) starting 03/26/2002 at 1PM EST on the Sci-Fi Channel
http://www.scifi.com/b5rangers/

[This message has been edited by KoshN (edited February 18, 2002).]

 

[Arrghman]

why bother looking at the centers? the ACTA ones were pure white at the centers too...

------------------
### Hi, I'm a sig virus. Please add me to the end of your signature so I can take over the world.### - caught from Saps @ B5MG

 

[KoshN]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Arrghman:
why bother looking at the centers? the ACTA ones were pure white at the centers too...

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Because it's a place of more homogenious color.

For the ACtA entry jumppoint, I get R234, G233, and B149, or decidedly minus blue.

For the ACtA exit jumppoint, I get R253, G253, and B253, or white.


------------------
KoshN
-------------
Vorlon Empire

Crusade (reruns) starting 03/26/2002 at 1PM EST on the Sci-Fi Channel

http://www.scifi.com/b5rangers/

 

[Arrghman]

for the central color of the ACTA ones it depends rather heavily on what frame you take your capture of... those points had animated patterns and probably lensflares at the center that changed intensities dynamically, which the b5lr ones didnt have (i think)

------------------
### Hi, I'm a sig virus. Please add me to the end of your signature so I can take over the world.### - caught from Saps @ B5MG