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Just Posted This Over At "rec.arts.sf.tv" ....
- Thread starter KoshN
- Start date
PillowRock
Regular
Re: Just Posted This Over At \"rec.arts.sf.tv\" ....
There is no really good order of the 13 eps that were filmed.
As has been said, the 5 grey uniform eps were filmed first and were intended (when they were filmed) to run first (or at least be 5 of the first 7 or so). They were written with the character interactions developing rationally based on that assumption.
After the shutdown and changes, from what I remember reading back at the time, JMS would have preferred to have shot one or two more eps in the grey uniforms (certainly War ZOne, if Atlanta was going to insist on it) for continuity and then change uniforms once. In this scenario those first 5 would still be shown toward the beginning of the season. Atlanta (and I keep using "Atlanta" because by all accounts TNT LA, people like Kat Slonaker, were always very good and supportive) insisted that all post shutdown filming be done with the new uniforms and that the original 5 would be shifted to the middle of the season. This meant that several scripts that had originally been written to follow those eps were now going to come before them. Since they knew this there were some changes made to some of those scripts to try to improve the continuity under that set of conditions.
Since the scripts couldn't be completely rewritten, though, much of the relationship progression of a number of the characters was still completely frelled. However, because they tried to fix what they could, the origianlly intended order no longer completely works either. I remember sitting down and looking hard at it, once upon a time, and I found that there is no order that does not have any continuity problems between episodes. This is true even if you ignore the uniform changes. Every possible order still would have at least one or two continuity issues even if you just assume that the two uniforms are simultaneous alternatives and stick to objective things (which means ignoring things like Chambers and Max resetting to complete antipathy after having thawed their relationship some the week before).
There is no really good order of the 13 eps that were filmed.
As has been said, the 5 grey uniform eps were filmed first and were intended (when they were filmed) to run first (or at least be 5 of the first 7 or so). They were written with the character interactions developing rationally based on that assumption.
After the shutdown and changes, from what I remember reading back at the time, JMS would have preferred to have shot one or two more eps in the grey uniforms (certainly War ZOne, if Atlanta was going to insist on it) for continuity and then change uniforms once. In this scenario those first 5 would still be shown toward the beginning of the season. Atlanta (and I keep using "Atlanta" because by all accounts TNT LA, people like Kat Slonaker, were always very good and supportive) insisted that all post shutdown filming be done with the new uniforms and that the original 5 would be shifted to the middle of the season. This meant that several scripts that had originally been written to follow those eps were now going to come before them. Since they knew this there were some changes made to some of those scripts to try to improve the continuity under that set of conditions.
Since the scripts couldn't be completely rewritten, though, much of the relationship progression of a number of the characters was still completely frelled. However, because they tried to fix what they could, the origianlly intended order no longer completely works either. I remember sitting down and looking hard at it, once upon a time, and I found that there is no order that does not have any continuity problems between episodes. This is true even if you ignore the uniform changes. Every possible order still would have at least one or two continuity issues even if you just assume that the two uniforms are simultaneous alternatives and stick to objective things (which means ignoring things like Chambers and Max resetting to complete antipathy after having thawed their relationship some the week before).
KoshN
Super Moderator
Re: Just Posted This Over At \"rec.arts.sf.tv\" ....
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>I remember sitting down and looking hard at it, once upon a time, and I found that there is no order that does not have any continuity problems between episodes.<hr></blockquote>
I did the same thing, and came to the same conclusions you did.
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>Every possible order still would have at least one or two continuity issues even if you just assume that the two uniforms are simultaneous alternatives and stick to objective things (which means ignoring things like Chambers and Max resetting to complete antipathy after having thawed their relationship some the week before).<hr></blockquote>
And that part in parenthesis was one of the parts that bugged me the most.
What I REALLY wish they'd do is to bring everybody back, and re-make it all from scratch, and maybe throw in some more ties to the Technomage trilogy. For me, that would be like winning the Lottery. /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>I remember sitting down and looking hard at it, once upon a time, and I found that there is no order that does not have any continuity problems between episodes.<hr></blockquote>
I did the same thing, and came to the same conclusions you did.
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>Every possible order still would have at least one or two continuity issues even if you just assume that the two uniforms are simultaneous alternatives and stick to objective things (which means ignoring things like Chambers and Max resetting to complete antipathy after having thawed their relationship some the week before).<hr></blockquote>
And that part in parenthesis was one of the parts that bugged me the most.
What I REALLY wish they'd do is to bring everybody back, and re-make it all from scratch, and maybe throw in some more ties to the Technomage trilogy. For me, that would be like winning the Lottery. /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif
Re: Just Posted This Over At \"rec.arts.sf.tv\" ....
I hate to see them redo the whole thing from scratch since there was some great stuff there. "revisionist history" would be great, though. They could probably clear up any continuity with a judicious refilmed scene here and there.
I'd just like to see it continue!!!!!!!
I hate to see them redo the whole thing from scratch since there was some great stuff there. "revisionist history" would be great, though. They could probably clear up any continuity with a judicious refilmed scene here and there.
I'd just like to see it continue!!!!!!!
KoshN
Super Moderator
Re: Just Posted This Over At \"rec.arts.sf.tv\" ....
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>I hate to see them redo the whole thing from scratch since there was some great stuff there. "revisionist history" would be great, though. They could probably clear up any continuity with a judicious refilmed scene here and there.<hr></blockquote>
See the problem is that Warner Brothers lost all the CGI files, and all that JMS had available were the ones they gave to Sierra for the game, plus the ones GVFX made for To Live and Die in Starlight.
It'd be great if JMS could:
<ul type="square">[*] neatly excise any objectionable TNT-added bits,
[*] film replacement scenes,
[*] fix the looping (that was done to make better sense of the TNT order),
[*] and film new episodes to make a 22 episode 1st Season,
[/list]
... but with Warner Brothers horrible "mishandling" of the CGI files[1], it seems unlikely that they'd be able to make the new and the old match visually.
[1] I still have a hard time believing that Warner Brothers could be THIS STUPID, and still be in business. Yes, I know, "Always bet on stupidity." ...but it almost seems like an excuse so that we fans will just have to drop it, or that Warner Brothers deliberately lost the files to:
<ul type="square">[*] minimize the work they'd have to do to get B5 onto DVD in Widescreen. "We can't re-render. We don't have any of the files. We have nooo idea where they went." *Warner Brothers shrug & innocent look*
[*] make the reconstruction of the first season of Crusade next to impossible.
[*] make it fiscally impossible for any new B5 series to match the look of Season 5 of B5 and the aired episodes of Crusade. "Yes the new stuff sticks out like a sore thumb, but we can't help it. There's not enough money in the budget to re-make all the CGI to match the look of the previous CGI, so you'll just have to be satisfied with this new stuff. It's that or nothing. Which do you want? (a.k.a. Take what we give you and shut-up.)
[*] put the final stake (as in staking a vampire, or Bester) in the chances for any new B5. Maybe they're just tired of B5.
[/list]
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>I hate to see them redo the whole thing from scratch since there was some great stuff there. "revisionist history" would be great, though. They could probably clear up any continuity with a judicious refilmed scene here and there.<hr></blockquote>
See the problem is that Warner Brothers lost all the CGI files, and all that JMS had available were the ones they gave to Sierra for the game, plus the ones GVFX made for To Live and Die in Starlight.
It'd be great if JMS could:
<ul type="square">[*] neatly excise any objectionable TNT-added bits,
[*] film replacement scenes,
[*] fix the looping (that was done to make better sense of the TNT order),
[*] and film new episodes to make a 22 episode 1st Season,
[/list]
... but with Warner Brothers horrible "mishandling" of the CGI files[1], it seems unlikely that they'd be able to make the new and the old match visually.
[1] I still have a hard time believing that Warner Brothers could be THIS STUPID, and still be in business. Yes, I know, "Always bet on stupidity." ...but it almost seems like an excuse so that we fans will just have to drop it, or that Warner Brothers deliberately lost the files to:
<ul type="square">[*] minimize the work they'd have to do to get B5 onto DVD in Widescreen. "We can't re-render. We don't have any of the files. We have nooo idea where they went." *Warner Brothers shrug & innocent look*
[*] make the reconstruction of the first season of Crusade next to impossible.
[*] make it fiscally impossible for any new B5 series to match the look of Season 5 of B5 and the aired episodes of Crusade. "Yes the new stuff sticks out like a sore thumb, but we can't help it. There's not enough money in the budget to re-make all the CGI to match the look of the previous CGI, so you'll just have to be satisfied with this new stuff. It's that or nothing. Which do you want? (a.k.a. Take what we give you and shut-up.)
[*] put the final stake (as in staking a vampire, or Bester) in the chances for any new B5. Maybe they're just tired of B5.
[/list]
KoshN
Super Moderator
Re: Just Posted This Over At \"rec.arts.sf.tv\" ....
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>KoshN, I can't find your thread at the moderated group's site. Where is it?<hr></blockquote>
To which thread are you referring? If you mean the one mentioned in the first post (above), it's at
rec.arts.sf.tv
not
rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated.
Caution: There are some real Crusade haters/bashers over there, and it's not moderated. Don your Nomex underwear before coming over. /ubbthreads/images/icons/shocked.gif
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>KoshN, I can't find your thread at the moderated group's site. Where is it?<hr></blockquote>
To which thread are you referring? If you mean the one mentioned in the first post (above), it's at
rec.arts.sf.tv
not
rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated.
Caution: There are some real Crusade haters/bashers over there, and it's not moderated. Don your Nomex underwear before coming over. /ubbthreads/images/icons/shocked.gif
hypatia
Regular
Re: Just Posted This Over At \"rec.arts.sf.tv\" ....
Thanks for the warning, KoshN. I did think you were talking about the moderated group. I'll probably skip checking it out then, I get so sick of the people who show up just to bash something. Of course, it might be a site that covers "non-B5" things, so it might not be "showing up just to bash" as I described.
Still, I'll probably pass! Thanks for the warning.
Thanks for the warning, KoshN. I did think you were talking about the moderated group. I'll probably skip checking it out then, I get so sick of the people who show up just to bash something. Of course, it might be a site that covers "non-B5" things, so it might not be "showing up just to bash" as I described.
Still, I'll probably pass! Thanks for the warning.
