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Re: They guessed the acronym.

Peter Jackson's LotR films have also shown that a five-minute introduction of backstory actually works. The people over at New Line agonized on that intro, and finally went for it -- even though Gil-galad, Elendil, and Isildur never showed up in the main action of the film, and only Elrond makes a repeat appearance. A fast five-minute backstory for a B5 movie, especially if it included characters like Sheridan who actually appear, in older form, in the course of the main story would probably work better than Jackson's "Everything You Need To Know About Middle-Earth History in Six Quick Minutes" lead-in to the films.

I don't know how well this would work, but perhaps footage from the show could be cleaned up and brought in, or at least used as a template.
 
Re: They guessed the acronym.

Joe,
Nice to know you held the royal flush that your detractors only thought they would have All you gotta do now is take it to the bank.:LOL:
 
Re: They guessed the acronym.

Ok, just a hello here to everyone. I'm new here, but not to Sci-fi or B5 by any means.

I've been following all of your many statements and arguments and speculations as this whole story has broken across the web. The ideas and enthusiasm from all of you are wonderous to see. I am profoundly glad, of course, that there is new life being breathed into the Babylon 5 universe by JMS and WB. :D What this new project is, is beyond me but my conclusions as a filmmaker and writer myself, using common sense, are that the title is most likely "The Memory of Shadows" since "movement" would tend to be indicative of presence in current time. "Memory" would tend to indicate, as many of you have pointed out, the many levels of the remnants of the Shadow war, from tech, to teeps.

Of course, the big question is what will be the focus? You have to pick your story....yet there are many that could be told with that title as a basis.

A) A teep war: Possible, but while it was indicated that telepaths were created by the Vorlons to be used against the Shadows, that element was used mainly as a story builder and plot point. A teep war itself, really wouldn't be a Memory of Shadows thing...remember, we're talking about Shadows...teeps were created by Vorlons. Don't get me wrong, I would love to see a teep war film, but my guess is it's unlikely.

B) Drakh: This has up to three stories tied into it so is therefore probably the most likely thrust of his story. But let's consider, there are at least three stories that have been talked about or indicated by JMS that could come from a Drakh film:

1) The fall of Centauri Prime. While this was told to some degree in the Centauri Trilogy of books, it's never been done fully or visually.
2) The tie into Crusade and where we know that story was eventually going. This could be a nice lead up to a following film (sequel) that does move on to Centauri Prime. Using our main characters and Galen as thread between them.
3) The only lightly mentioned but highly kept secret story of David Sheridan. Now this one has potential. But wait, all of these tales lend themselves to each other....now doesn't that sound like JMS...many stories all tied together by character, conflict and drama?

Three elements to the Drakh....one glorious trilogy of films. Sounds like the best plan to me...and if I were the powers that be at WB that would be my direction, especially given the success of LOTR. Think big...and that's the biggest story that happens while our beloved Sheridan still lives. He was at best on the periphery of the teep war since that mainly involved Earth Gov.

If I were JMS, and such excitement were suddenly coming from WB about B5, this would be my pitch...a trilogy that would tie up all the elements of the Drakh on a grand scale...from Centauri, to Galen (and the Technomages)....from Crusade to David Sheridan (a story that JMS has stated was a secret hold back for a time when he could tell it BIG).

Anyway, my views as filmmaker and writer (and what I would do and wish for).

But to all I say, we did it! B5 endures! Faith Manages!

Tony
 
Re: They guessed the acronym.

Okay Joe, you've pretty much convinced me to see it your way (and GH's way -- although the one thing I disagree with is that the Teep War would have to be a film because JMS said that's what he wanted some years ago -- things change, perspectives change, and the industry changes). Still and all...count me converted.

And I _hate_ to not be right, so that was a pretty convincing post!

Part of what did it was this:

But you can't call Abby Rents and have then send over a dozen Narn Kha'ri chairs
Click to expand...

<Aisling thinks: "Kha'ri chairs...G'Kar is the only surviving member of the Kha'ri...Andreas on the big screen, in the dark, mmmm.....">

And part of it was this:

I'd like nothing more than for the original cast to do three or four theatrical films while another series (perhaps even a clean reboot of Crusade) continued playing in that universe on TV, a la TNG and the TOS films.
Click to expand...

Again, nice to think of having the opportunity to see Andreas on the big screen three or four more times, at least...and remembering what happened to Trek (and never mind how they subsequently squandered all that viewership good will) makes me think that yes, indeed, a theatrical film could give B5 a very long, and very profitable, life span.

So, on to the theaters...and then back into our living rooms on a weekly basis (as long as I don't ever have to see Andreas do "The View," gack!)!

Aisling
 
Re: They guessed the acronym.

CE, some interesting ideas there. However, I think that for this "arc" to work the story as told by the Centauri trilogy would have to be reworked a bit to feature Sheridan and Delenn a bit more in the middle. But overall, your speculation makes more sense than mine.

One thing we know for sure, though - after two failures to hit a home run, this one HAS to work or the franchise is in a world of hurt. So I want (and expect) JMS to use whatever story he has that is the best and most well-devoloped, regardless of the medium (TR or MS) and regardless of what he would like to "hold back to tell in a better medium."

A TR would mean years of waiting, but would be worth it.
 
Re: They guessed the acronym.

Well, we've known JMS to rework story elements in the past by enlightnening us to things that were going on that we were previously unaware of (ie: Galen was traveling to Centauri Prime whenever he left the Excalibur). We do know that Delenn and Sheridan were a big part of that story, remember Londo captured both of them...and while captured they hinted at story elements that had led up to that point (the elusive David Sheridan, which is again a major story that JMS has purposefully kept completely from everyone).

I do agree that he will use his best and brightest story concept...which is why I tend to lean towards an all out Drakh trilogy type idea which would be grand in scale and has many subplots all tied to one big one. We don't know what the medium is as yet, true and I do think he will tell his best story regardless of medium. Given the titling (at least as far as we've guessed it), I'm inclined to see it as a Feature film or Mini-series at the least.

But I'm only speculating along with you guys...and ain't that a blast?!

Only the Great Maker knows for sure...I will have no problem admitting I was wrong if it turns out I was off base. I'm simply elated that B5 is back in some way.
 
Re: They guessed the acronym.

A) A teep war: Possible, but while it was indicated that telepaths were created by the Vorlons to be used against the Shadows, that element was used mainly as a story builder and plot point. A teep war itself, really wouldn't be a Memory of Shadows thing...remember, we're talking about Shadows...teeps were created by Vorlons. Don't get me wrong, I would love to see a teep war film, but my guess is it's unlikely.

I don't agree that this presents a problem. The Shadows were behind Clark, who was behind Psi Corps and responsible for giving them a great deal of otherwise extra-legal authority and resources. As Edgars predicted, the Corps would not give those things up voluntarily even after Clark fell. One of the reasons the war eventually spirals out of control to affect "mundanes" in the EA and eventually the Interstellar Alliance is probably some of the Corps "black projects" - many of which are probably derived from Shadowtech even if the Corps doesn't know it - coming to light as a result of Lyta and Garibaldi's activities. That, too, is a legacy of the Shadows and their malign influence, just as the Teeps themselves are part of the Vorlon legacy. It seems to me that this would be a perfectly reasonable story to connect to the word "Shadows" in the title. And frankly anything that harkens back to the War is going to involve both the Vorlons and Shadows, so it is really a matter of which word fits best in the title. (And JMS has talked about flashbacks involving the Vorlon homeworld and the creation of telepaths if he ever did a Telepath War feature film - which would necessarily involve explaining who they were to be used as weapons against.)


1) The fall of Centauri Prime. While this was told to some degree in the Centauri Trilogy of books, it's never been done fully or visually.

It seems to me that the fall of Centauri Prime was largely told in the series. We know that Drakh are in charge through Londo, we've seen how that will end in "WWE". Pretty much all of the details are given in the Centauri trilogy. Don't forget, the three book trilogies were outlined at the same time Crusade was going into production and WB was seriously interested in doing a feature film. JMS deliberately selected stories that he thought would be too complicated, involve too many "non-show" characters and be too expensive ever to film to be told in the novels. I'm skeptical about his now going back and, in effect, adapting his own work and retelling stories he's already told.

2) The tie into Crusade and where we know that story was eventually going. This could be a nice lead up to a following film (sequel) that does move on to Centauri Prime. Using our main characters and Galen as thread between them.

Where the series was going seemed to have a lot more to do with Earth's secret use of Shadowtech than with the Drakh. And Excalibur's mission - both the original and the real one - is long over by the time Centauri Prime is liberated.

3) The only lightly mentioned but highly kept secret story of David Sheridan. Now this one has potential. But wait, all of these tales lend themselves to each other....now doesn't that sound like JMS...many stories all tied together by character, conflict and drama?

***

(a story that JMS has stated was a secret hold back for a time when he could tell it BIG).

Do you have a JMS post about his plans for David Sheridan? Because I honestly cannot recall ever seeing a single post that indicated that he had any particular story in mind for him beyond his encounter with the Drakh Keeper - which is, of course, fully told in the Centuari trilogy.

And I don't think anybody is thinking in terms of a "trilogy of film" along the lines of LotR or the Potter series. JMS is not going to start some kind of continued story that he might not ever get a chance to finish. In TV you take that chance because of the nature of the medium, but that's not the case in feature films. He is going to pick a story that can be told in from beginning to end in a single film, while still leaving the door open to other films down the line. This strikes me as yet another reason to think the Telepath War is the most likely untold story to make a good feature film. A Mini-series might be better suited to another story. We'll just have to see.

Regards,

Joe
 
Re: They guessed the acronym.

Ain't all this speculation great?! After all that's what JMS wants us doing...and who knows...it may well be something none of knows about as yet, using only elements of what we do know as backstory. We know JMS has many stories in his B5 panthion that have yet to be revealed...he did plan this universe out a million years in either direction. So the sky is the limit. Elements of each story we've talked about in here have been revealed but never fully explored in a visual medium especially. And we have no idea what the WB deal is exactly. Could be one film...could be a trilogy...could by a mini-series...could fall apart at the last minute. Faith Manages.

And my faith is simply this...I believe in JMS's ability to tell a great story that will move me...shake me...and make me think, with characters I will want to know personally and laugh and cry with...so no matter whay...I believe in Joe, so it will be great whatever it is.
 
Re: They guessed the acronym.

OH and about a post on the David Sheridan story...I honestly cannot recall where I read it...but I do remember reading that he had purposefully kept a lid on most of the David Sheridan story...and the Keeper is only a part of it.

JMS has said that David plays a big part in the B5 universe.

Guess we'll just wait and see.

Babylon 5 endures.
 
Re: They guessed the acronym.

Ok, I will go back and check this evening...but it wasn't what I read, it's in a commentary on the DVD's...I'll have to find which one...but I'm fairly certain it's S4 somewhere. JMS makes a cryptic comment on David and that's there more to him than we've seen.

I will go back tonight and check my facts, I promise... :D

All I'm saying is...if it is indeed a film...and if indeed the speculated title is "The Memory of Shadows," then it stands to reason to me that the story is not about the teep war. If it were, then it would only stand to reason that there would be some reference in the title to telepaths.

You have to sell a film by its title...and that title should give people some clue as to the story...this would include people who aren't necessarily fans or followers.

Of course, that could well be the wrong title...who knows...that's the hilarity here...JMS has us scratchin' for clues.

I would love to see a teep war film...but so would I a full Drakh follow through. Either way, it's B5!
 
Re: They guessed the acronym.

My contribution about whether could be a Telepath War (TW)?

Once the announcement of a new B5 project was said, my bet was for a feature film about the TW. And the reason is quite logical....

One of the MAIN character for this story is Walter Koenig. He is getting old, and if you want him to be part of the TW he should be in a good shape. Therefore this project should be shoot as soon as possible.
Another reason (and that´s strictly business point of view) it is easier to have the SCI-FI audience (specially Trekkers) interested to watch a feature film with "Checov" in it. I am sure that audience will be wondering what is "Checov" doing at an unknown Sci-Fi movie.....This is a wise move to increase audience.

Regards,

Cadu
Zahadum
 
Re: They guessed the acronym.

I agree on the bankability of Koenig: he's no Brad Pitt, but he does have some Sci-Fi clout. Plus, the analogy given earlier with the x-men is a good one; it's a recognisable dynamic, one which non B5-aholics can grasp without difficulty.

that being said, I still think I'd rather it was a mini-series; they are very much the vogue just now with Taken, Dune, Children of Dune, Battlestar Gallactica...

the 6 hour CoD worked out at 4 hours 17 net time: three main acts, and they really used the time well to flesh the story and characters out. It allowed them to make use of a wide ensemble cast, and to see the action from many different perspectives.

One of the main things about B5 was that it wasn't Sheridan and the hired guns, it was a true ensemble, and I can't help but feel that it would be hard to do justice to a larger cast in a theatrical movie.

regardless, I am sure that it will kick a whole lot of ass. :)

So, do we know when That Mean ol' Strazinski will be putting us out of our misery?

VB.
 
Re: They guessed the acronym.

...that being said, I still think I'd rather it was a mini-series; they are very much the vogue just now with Taken, Dune, Children of Dune, Battlestar Gallactica...
Click to expand...

Well, we're into apples and oranges here. You've just named the all-time top rated shows that have ever appeared on the Sci-Fi Channel. A project helmed by Steven Speilberg, two adaptations of hugely successful, classic science fiction novels and a remake of a very successful SF series from the late 70s that still has a huge fan base that gathers at conventions to this day. At least some of those were also owned, in whole or in part, by Sci-Fi Channel films and/or Universal, which means beyond the ratings they participate in overseas sales, reruns and home video proceeds. None of the titles you named is comparable to Babylon 5 in any of these respects. For all the popularity of the DVDs, I don't think anyone is going to put those kind of resources into a B5 mini because I don't think any network could reasonably expect those kind of ratings from it.

the 6 hour CoD worked out at 4 hours 17 net time
Click to expand...

But CoD was an adapation of two enormously popular novels by one of the biggest names in Sci-Fi condensed into one story. I wouldn't expect an original B5 mini to go one second over a "4 hour" slot.

Regards,

Joe
 
Re: They guessed the acronym.

I gave up trying to second guess the Great Maker in the middle of the fourth season as I was invariably wrong. I'm just going to sit back and watch the rest of you fight it out, then see what jms really has planned.
 
Re: They guessed the acronym.

I'm just going to sit back and watch the rest of you fight it out, then see what jms really has planned.
Click to expand...

Well, you're no fun. Now I know why we tossed you out of a moving car. :)

Regards,

Joe
 
Re: They guessed the acronym.

Speaking of the car. Can we take a bathroom break now?
 
Re: They guessed the acronym.

Prior to the Telepath War the rouge teeps have been fighting a guerrilla war. A few acts of terrorism would make the film contemporary.

Between “Objects at Rest” and “Sleeping in light” is 20 years; JMS will not want to waste that time. David Sheridan will appear in the son of Babylon 5 films in about 15 years time. This film will be about what Sheridan/Lyta/Garibaldi did next – probably the Telepath War. We may find out what the Rangers were really doing.
 
Re: They guessed the acronym.

A few acts of terrorism would make the film contemporary.
Click to expand...
How could depicting an age-old tactic make something contemporary? Does an already believable and interesting story *need* special effort/emphasis on contemporary?

That said, it is beyond doubt that in the Telepath War of B5, blips did employ terrorist tactics (as did the Corps) -- except when either side had more sense, or better alternatives.

There is little doubt in the presumption that some civilian ships (and some non-military Psi-Corps bases) went the way wind/hyperspace carried their component particles.
 
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