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Mergy Sci-fi races??

To demonstrate why such things cannot be compared:

- Rig one Vorchan with a Drakh remote control pod.
- Load some strategic nuclear warheads.
- Jump in close to the enemy.
- Push the button.

As hyperspace does not exist in the imaginary universe of Star Wars, nobody could even guess what happened to the Star Destroyer. How do you compare which is not meant to be compared?
 
It's all in good fun. None of this exists so we are just comparing for the sake of this. We do not intend to prove anything. This is a FUN NOT SERIOUS debate. It is only to see who has better arguments and (again I say) TO HAVE FREAKIN' FUN!!!!!
 
The aspect of hyperspace gives the B5 universe some impressive advantages.

In Star Trek, usually they can see approaching ships (transwarp-conduits and slipstreams aside, cloaking devices not used by all and often have some detectable flaws) in normal space - often being quite noticable due to their warp field. I'm not as up on Star Wars tech but it seemed that they were still in normal space even when using their hyperdrive. As long as neither of the above could enter or detect hyperspace, ships of B5 could appear right in their own territories, behind the front lines, in ready orbital bombardment of your planets. Heck, even in B5 where they can enter hyperspace and have detection and relay probes, fleets could get in deep into enemy territory with little way to stop them before they entered normal space. Also, just how well do shields stand up against the opening of a jumppoint? True, using that is rare since precision is hard to get but Star Destroyers are large and too often travel close together in groups so it wouldn't nessarily be that precise. A Death Star even more vulnerable - as if they weren't very vulnerable already. /ubbthreads/images/icons/wink.gif

As to the question of a Death Star verses Planet Killers? Well if it got the first shot off on a Vorlon Planet Killer and managed to hit, it would probably destroy it. But the opposite is true. With the Shadow Death Cloud they'd have to be lucky and hit the exact right spot or they'd laser beam would either go through emptiness in the grid or only damage a small section. If the Cloud can wrap around a full sized Earth-like planet, wrapping around a "small moon" would be easy and their nuclear missles would destroy it even easier than a planet - and that's saying somehow the Death Star was immune to the cold shut down of all energy in the field. However, Death Stars can be built (in a surprisingly small amount of time) by a Human-like race. None of the younger B5 races has come close to making a planet killer - though I think their regular ships (at least of the more powerful races) can decimate much of a planetary surface anyway.

One one one, non-First One ships verse those of others ... Well, I'm not sure what the "real life" energy output of Star Trek ships would be so I don't know how well a photon torpedo or a phaser could pentrate B5 armor. Conversely, I don't know how well B5 weapons could deplate a Star Trek shield - though the fusion beams of the Minbari sound like they pack an impressive punch. Also, the ships of B5 seem like they are usually much more manueverable than the big ships of Star Trek (and maybe Star Wars) - and can actually fly in the Z-axis, unlike Star Trek. /ubbthreads/images/icons/wink.gif
 
We can basically say Trek will lose. Their ships are small weak and few imbetween. Star War's troubles could only be at the hands of B5 first ones. Good point about the industrisl capabilities. The Empire has amazing industry. The Executor was built in just six months!
 
Oh, and I should point out also the Star Wars CCG doesn't stand up very well against the Babylon 5 CCG. /ubbthreads/images/icons/wink.gif

We once had a freaky coclomerate game - including Magic. I was nice and agreed to not use my Planet Killer against the Star Wars locations or Magic lands ... since without those their decks were useless! /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif

Yep, when it takes all game to build the Death Star and all I need is to get to the Shadow War to bring out the Death Cloud .... *smiles*
 
About industry...

The younger races seem to have pretty slow industries. When they lose something, patching the "economic hull breach" will take time. After the Earth-Minbari war, it took Earth ten years before they were confident enough to exapand. Even the Minbari built the White Star fleet in secrecy because a preventive strike from the Shadows would have crippled them.

Now with the First Ones, the situation is quite opposite.

The best example of <font color=yellow>extreme </font color=yellow>industrial capacity would be the Shadows. Efficiency is among the basic principles of their civilisation. Because of their thousand-year periods of rest, their periods of wakefulness pass with incredible speed.

They build faster, destroy faster, learn faster, adpapt faster and recover faster. From complete withdrawal at the end of the previous cycle, they quickly build up their forces to a frightening extent.

It is partly related to using organic technology. You do not see Shadows welding pieces of metal or tightening bolts. They write the program, the tech grows on its own. Some spoilers from the Centauri trilogy...

<font class="small">Spoiler:</font>
<table bgcolor="#000000" cellspacing="2" cellpadding="2" border="0"><tr bgcolor="#000000"><td bgcolor="#000000" id="spoiler"><font color="#000000">When the Drakh manipulate minister Durla to organize an archaeological dig on a remote world, Centauri activities wake up a Shadow jump gate deep inside the planet. The gate powers up, destroying the Centauri settlement. Drakh vessels arrive and enter the gate, soon followed by a technomage ship carrying Kane, Gwynn, Finian and none other than Vir Cotto.

It appears that the gate has created a shortcut in hyperspace, propelling them to a deep-range Shadow base. Neatly concealed by null fields, the base is about the size of a small planet. It is called X'ha'dam, a tribute to a world which we already know. The base is defenseless, meant to be protected by its owners. But there is nobody there. The Shadows are gone and their base awaits orders.

While technomages search for a way to destroy it, the Drakh activate the construction of an unfinished planetkiller. It appears that Shadow technology requires no user's manual to operate. You tell it what you want. It does what you want. In a mere 15 minutes, one planetkiller is ready and leaves. Immediately, the construction of another begins. It becomes apparent that building the second planetkiller will take no longer.

While the planetkiller builds itself, a Drakh only supervises the process. Quite fortunately for the younger races, Vir Cotto whacks the Drakh with a devious high-tech weapon. You guessed correctly: he whacks the Drakh with a stone. /ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif

By that time, the planetkiller is complete enough to accept commands. Without much worrying, Vir tells it to fire on X'ha'dam. A choice which makes better informed people very concerned with one question: getting the hell out of there.</font></td></tr></table>
 
Ok first of all I want to get my dealings with B5tech out right now. They are great for information and everything EXCEPT their information on the ships. The information given above is almost completly wrong first of all the Centauri do not have energy mines. Second the Vorchan was designed to be a cheap ship with a whole lot of fire power. They have a Plasma Accelereator, and a ion cannon. The newer models the Demos class also have 3 Ballistic Torpedo Launchers. If you want information on any B5 races chech out there specs on B5 Wars, it is all about 100% accurate with exception of a little armor and weapon stengh in some areas, but that only because they had to make it playable. JMS said himself that all of this information is Cannon so dont worry about it not being true, i can find the quote for you non believer. but anyway I wanted to give the true stats of the two Centauri ships.

Vorchan Cruiser:
1 Plasma Accelerator
1 Ion Cannon

Primus Heavy Cruiser:
4 Battle Lasers
8 Twin Arrays
12 Sentri Fighters

* My advice is to get these books, very kool if you want to know information on their ships.

Oh yeah i'd like to know where you can get accurate information on both Star Wars and Star Trek ships, as i've really not yet found a reliable source.

Back to the debate Turbo Lasers have about the 2/3 range of the Battle Lasers anyway. And from what it seems to me the Empire has about the equivelent of all the B5 races combines when it comes to economy, so it would have to be a joint effort to fight them, but would be a kool war too.

I was also curious to your opinions on how they would interact with eachother as well, like how good would the Klingons and Centauri get along for an example.
 
I have the Fleet Action book "To the Victor" so I have loads of info on the Centauri. The Vorchan's weapons are all very close ranged. Except the Demos and her ballistic torpedos but they are uncommon.

On Star Wars info. Unless I'm mistaken the Essential Guide to Ships and Vessels is cannon. Correct me if I'm wrong. If I'm right then the Destroyer stats are right on except for the fact that the Star Destroyer also has proton torpedo launchers.

I think that the Earth Alliance, and Federation would get along with the New Republice because of similar ideals and the Minbari would also becuse the spirituality and insight of the Jedi nights.

The Narn and Klingons would get along because of similar customs and behaviour patterns

The Centauri and Romulans would get along because of behaviour patterns too.
 
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr> The golden rule of scfi is for it to be good. <hr></blockquote>
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr> A golden rule for all fiction is consistency. <hr></blockquote>

OK, that works as golden rule also.
 
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Lennier:
<font color=yellow>A golden rule for all fiction is consistency.</font color=yellow><hr></blockquote>

It is acually more important to be good than it is to be consistant. I have yet to see a scifi series, TV or movie, that is compleatly consistant (no errors with its own history, continuity, and other established "facts" for that series). I have however enjoyed several series that were good.
 
Consistency is needed to understand and follow anything in the first place. Therefore I would say that in fiction, "consistent" and "good" partially overlap.
 
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by greatone2002:
<font color=yellow>Ok first of all I want to get my dealings with B5tech out right now. They are great for information and everything EXCEPT their information on the ships. The information given above is almost completly wrong first of all the Centauri do not have energy mines. Second the Vorchan was designed to be a cheap ship with a whole lot of fire power. They have a Plasma Accelereator, and a ion cannon. The newer models the Demos class also have 3 Ballistic Torpedo Launchers. If you want information on any B5 races chech out there specs on B5 Wars, it is all about 100% accurate with exception of a little armor and weapon stengh in some areas, but that only because they had to make it playable. JMS said himself that all of this information is Cannon so dont worry about it not being true, i can find the quote for you non believer. but anyway I wanted to give the true stats of the two Centauri ships.

Vorchan Cruiser:
1 Plasma Accelerator
1 Ion Cannon

Primus Heavy Cruiser:
4 Battle Lasers
8 Twin Arrays
12 Sentri Fighters

* My advice is to get these books, very kool if you want to know information on their ships.

Oh yeah i'd like to know where you can get accurate information on both Star Wars and Star Trek ships, as i've really not yet found a reliable source.

Back to the debate Turbo Lasers have about the 2/3 range of the Battle Lasers anyway. And from what it seems to me the Empire has about the equivelent of all the B5 races combines when it comes to economy, so it would have to be a joint effort to fight them, but would be a kool war too.

I was also curious to your opinions on how they would interact with eachother as well, like how good would the Klingons and Centauri get along for an example.</font color=yellow><hr></blockquote>

Well if you go by the series and movies its established that Vorchans:

1) They have 3 or 4 cannons in each wing (season 5 and In the begining).

2) Those wing cannons can hit and destroy a small bunker on a plantes planet's surface from a high orbit.

3) The yellow energy bolts from the wing cannons explode when they hit a target (season 5 when the ISA bring chages against the centari someone testifies that this is a known fact and was used as a means of idenfiying the centari as the attackers).

4) They have two side mounted cannons on the main hull that fire red beams (season 5).

5) The launch mines, albeit mechanical ones and not the energy ones described on B5tech (season 5).
 
What? I never saw any of those things. I gotta review again. All I've ever see are the Vorchan's two twin arrays and single plasma accelerator. In "In the Beginning" I thought those blasts were from her twin arrays.Red beams? Am I the only one that didn't see those. Help here folks.
 
Hey we forgot the Battlestar Galactica universe. Give Battlestars and Basestars jump engiens and they would be at home In B5.
 
Yeah, I forgot about that one. Imagine if earth would of had Gunstars instead of starfurries durring the earth mimbari war. That would have leveled the odds.
 
I don't remember the name of the movie.. something like The Explorers. Well they create this bubble that can travel very fast and they make a space ship to fit inside and they meet these alien kids. Well imagine some vorlon child or other advanced species child stopping by and picking up different races. I don't know why this movie popped into my head but there it is.
 
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Xzyl:
<font color=yellow>Yeah, I forgot about that one. Imagine if earth would of had Gunstars instead of starfurries durring the earth mimbari war. That would have leveled the odds.</font color=yellow><hr></blockquote>

That would have made a difference but so would a tracking/weapons system that could penatrate the Minbari's stealth system.
 
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by gangster:
<font color=yellow>That would have made a difference but so would a tracking/weapons system that could penatrate the Minbari's stealth system.</font color=yellow><hr></blockquote>

I know, thats one thing that has always bugged me about B5. Before we sent a probe to any planet in our solar system we new what the gravity on the other planets were. Before we were took a picture of a black hole we already knew how to detect them. I have the impression that by the time of the war even humans had the abuility to directly measure gravity. Why did they not use that as a means of tracking the mimbari ships? At least they should of had telepaths in the fleet to give them a general direction to look in.

Oh well my view on the gunstars in the B5 universe is that the having having a dedicated pilot and gunner arangement would have improved the odds of humans becuse it allowed the pilot to put everything into evading fire while the gunner could still target and fire on an enemy. Plus the armour on that thing was great, remeber how many hits that thing took. The firepower it had was enough to criple a capitol ship. A squdron of them could fire massive missle volllies at the mimbari cruisers With war heads setup to go off when they detected they were passing through a gravity field or when they got to the last heading of a moving gravity field the crusiers would be layed to waste in no time.
 
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