New vote for worst episode ever: Between the Darkness and the Light

[GKarsEye]

crumby? The word you're looking for is crummy

When these actresses share the screen with one of the better actors, they get chewed up and spit out, and are therefore crumby.

I rule.

 

[aajay]

My least favorite - which is what we are talking about in reality - is The Corps is Mother, The Corps is Father. Just couldn't get into it at all.
Also really disliked the entire Findall plotline of Meditations on the Abyss.

 

[Bester]

Can we also include the TV movies? Because for me it has GOT to be Legend of the Rangers. I've never before seen such a self indulgent, bloated, over-the-top mess.

 

[Pinky Narfanek]

It's got to be Believers for me. I'm not quite sure what it is about the episode, but something just makes it very difficult to watch.

I can ignore (or at least distract myself) from stilted dialogue and "goofy" moments like the death of the Zarg because of what the rest of the episode brings. Even though I do find Ivanova's "sex scene" one of the most easily skippable scenes in the series, I like the rest of the episode. The punchline is fine, but the setup is almost torturous.

Comes the Inquisitor has got to be one my favorites though. It is both dark and powerful and I never got to see it for over a year after the show finished. I finally caught it at 5am one morning before work. Yes, I got up two hours early to watch it and I enjoyed it very much.

But, when it comes to Believers I just can't do it. Everything about the episode just moves my hand to the "skip" button on the remote.

 

[KoshN]

It's got to be Believers for me. I'm not quite sure what it is about the episode, but something just makes it very difficult to watch.

I can ignore (or at least distract myself) from stilted dialogue and "goofy" moments like the death of the Zarg because of what the rest of the episode brings. Even though I do find Ivanova's "sex scene" one of the most easily skippable scenes in the series, I like the rest of the episode. The punchline is fine, but the setup is almost torturous.

Comes the Inquisitor has got to be one my favorites though. It is both dark and powerful and I never got to see it for over a year after the show finished. I finally caught it at 5am one morning before work. Yes, I got up two hours early to watch it and I enjoyed it very much.

But, when it comes to Believers I just can't do it. Everything about the episode just moves my hand to the "skip" button on the remote.

We're very much on the same wavelength, although the only things that move my hand to the FF button on the remote (FF1 or FF2), are Ivanova's "sex" dance for the Lumati (However, I also like the punchline.), and Sarah destroying the minefield in "To Live and Die in Starlight".

 

[Clark Kent]

Then assume that 'Dan Randall' was simply a name that sounded 'newsman-like' and isn't based on anybody at all. FWIW, the description of that character in the scipt is: "Slick, intense, and in his late 30s or early 40s. No suggestion of a resemblance to anybody. If they'd found a femal to play that part and named her Donna Randall (which was known to happen), would you have looked for the parallel then?

We see on B5 any number of people who just go along with the status quo and use the situation to further their own goals. Remember Mr. Wells, for instance? My impression of Randall was that he was just such a person, using the jailing of the ISN anchors to get an anchoring position he wouldn't have gotten so soon if not for Clark taking over.

Jan

And having worked in local TV news, I can attest to there being a dozen Dan Randell's willing to do whatever it takes to get that coveted anchor chair, including slanting their stories. So, the episodes of Babylon 5 that dealt with the news service I felt to be quite real.

 

[A_M_Swallow]

And having worked in local TV news, I can attest to there being a dozen Dan Randell's willing to do whatever it takes to get that coveted anchor chair, including slanting their stories. So, the episodes of Babylon 5 that dealt with the newsservice to be quite real.

Something for them to remember. If Sheridan wins they are in "You will never work in this town again", nor the town after that.

 

[Mike G]

As I've said several times on these boards, the episode Secrets of the Soul is absolute torture for me, for reasons I've mentioned in the past, although on rewatching I think Infection might be worse.

As for Between the Darkness and the Light, I agree, really weak in parts. The thing is its such a crucial episode its easy to get caught up in it and ignore the lame bits.

 

[Jade Jaguar]

Then assume that 'Dan Randall' was simply a name that sounded 'newsman-like' and isn't based on anybody at all...

... If they'd found a femal to play that part and named her Donna Randall (which was known to happen), would you have looked for the parallel then?

Jan

I wouldn't have seen it as a parallel then, but I still wouldn't care for the ep. But, I certainly don't deny that the behavior depicted is believable.

 

[GKarsEye]

Oh come on, can't you even appreciate how the propoganda team twisted their footage around to create something? The brilliance of that episode is that you think it shows its hand early: an obviously biased news crew does a story. You think you can expect how it will turn out. And then they drop that bomb about the fake inter-breeding program!

I think it's awesome.

I also love that, in the middle of these two wars, where Sheridan is being this powerful, amazing leader, we see him make such a big, obvious mistake- one based on him being too naive and good to imagine what this news crew can do.

One of my favorite themes of the show, and the reason I think that Sheridan is so great, is that we slowly see him lose his innocence. This is one of those key moments.

 

[Jade Jaguar]

I also love that, in the middle of these two wars, where Sheridan is being this powerful, amazing leader, we see him make such a big, obvious mistake- one based on him being too naive and good to imagine what this news crew can do.

That's something else I didn't like about it. It doesn't seem plausible to me that Sheridan could be SO naive in this case, when he is so good at understanding and exploiting the natures of those he has to deal with. Most adults in our time would be able to forsee such twisting, if not the specific invention of the "interbreeding program."

Still, I'm not saying it is an awful ep, just that it is a one-trick pony, to quote myself, and the ep I least enjoy rewatching. No doubt I found it more interesting the first time.

 

[GKarsEye]

Well that's another reason I actually love the ep- while re-watching it, I get to follow how exactly they're gonna re-use the bits they record to create their broadcast.

I'm generally a sucker for those weird, one-off episodes where the format is different- this one, Intersections in Real Time, Inquisitor, the season 4 finale, The Corsp Is Mother, heck, even A View From the Gallery. Day of the Dead is the one such that dissappoints me because I feel like it was a great idea that they didn't take full advantage of.

 

[maneth]

Deconstruction of Falling Stars I don't like, because I find it too pessimistic. In the end, what B5 achieved didn't matter much. It didn't stop the great sacking of the Universe, and the backlash against science and technology.

I'll grant you that the episode was decently crafted, especially given that it's really a filler episode shot at the last minute, but I find it too depressing for words.

I really didn't like the episodes where Sheridan was being interrogated (The Face of the Enemy & Intersections in Real Time), I found myself yawning far too often. It somehow felt as if they were belittling true psychological torture/brainwashing, as it felt too fake for me. For that reason alone BtDatL is a relief, when they're no longer stuck on Mars.

My least favorite episode of all is probably Comes the Inquisitor. I just never got the point and was very disappointed the first time I saw it: all that setup and for what?

 

[GKarsEye]

In the end, what B5 achieved didn't matter much.

I think you're missing the point of that episode. Yes, earth destroyed its own civilisation. But it was able to rebuild in a way that would lead to a greater way of being, based on the principles and actions of the Babylon 5 story. Not only did it matter, but it was the guideline for the development of at least two of the greatest civilisations in the galaxy.

 

[maneth]

I understand what you're getting at, but I still think it was a bit disappointing.

 

[PillowRock]

Intersections in Real Time <snip> It somehow felt as if they were belittling true psychological torture/brainwashing, as it felt too fake for me.

I'm curious. What exactly felt so fake to you that it would be taken as belittling the concept or victims?

I mean, there are some concessions to necessities of dramatic presentation (such as limiting the amount of repetition in the questioning, without which audience yawns multiply exponentially). Other than that (which I give them as a necessary element of their story telling, much like faster-than-light travel), I'm really not sure what was so fake.

 

[hypatia]

Yea, haven't you noticed how quickly strangulations and suffocations happen on t.v. and in film. It's not very realistic, true. But it's even more true that I wouldn't sit through the scene (or the rest of the show, probably) if it were displayed realistically.

And t.v. births are... well, we won't go there.

 

[maneth]

That's a fair point I suppose. I can accept that unrealistic portrayal may be necessary, but in that case, why show it at all? Of course I like most if not all viewers of the show am lucky in that I've never been exposed to any sort of attempts at brainwashing.

My main gripe against those two episodes, however, is that I simply found them boring. I'm not saying I need huge explosions or fights in every episode to be happy, but...

 

[GaribaldisHair]

OTOH, Intersections is one of my favourite eps of the entire run.

 

[Pinky Narfanek]

Deconstruction of Falling Stars I don't like, because I find it too pessimistic. In the end, what B5 achieved didn't matter much. It didn't stop the great sacking of the Universe, and the backlash against science and technology.

It didn't stop all of that, but it did give humanity a point from which to rebuild on multiple occassions. After The Burn, monks are illuminating the story of Babylon 5 with talk of "Ivanova the Strong" and when Sol ends, the information surrounding "the little space station that could" is considered important enough that we are saving it and archiving it for still more study after thousands of years! If anything, I believe that Deconstruction shows us the ripples of a single event, and the impact that it may have far into the future.

My least favorite episode of all is probably Comes the Inquisitor. I just never got the point and was very disappointed the first time I saw it: all that setup and for what?

I believe that the point was a warning to those who believe they have a destiny (that you may not, and that many will die as you attempt to win glory for yourself, will you pay that price as well?). It also shows us what the Vorlons were truly capable doing (putting a notorious killer on ice for use when they felt like it), and begins to really let us know that the Vorlons are not kindly parents. It also shows us the level of commitment between Sheridan and Delenn.

That's just my take on it, though. Your milage would appear to vary.