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Newbie just starting S2 - Non-Spoilers ONLY!

Re: Newbie just starting S4- Non-Spoilers ONLY!

"The Summoning" - What a bizarre episode! It had a "feel" to it that is difficult to describe. I was happy to see Garibaldi come back...where was he? Who captured him? Did I miss something or don't we know yet? Why did his captors jettison him in a life pod and then self-destruct? It's a mystery.

Sheridan's return was timely and appreciated. I'm not sure I understand why he said he died and why Lorien is with him, especially since the last time we saw Sheridan, he was having trouble even hearing and seeing Lorien.

Then there's the whole Vorlons vs. the shadows thing...weird. This new ambassador seems to be a real jerk, especially to Lyta...poor thing.

And G'Kar!!!! I could barely watch him being tortured. That crazed emperor finally broke him...I had so much trouble with that. Yet, he had to scream in order to get his homeworld back...it seems.

Yes, a very strange and disturbing episode.
 
Re: Newbie just starting S4- Non-Spoilers ONLY!

Garbialdi, you probably have seen enough clues to hazard a guess, but, it's unlikely you'll get all the way to the answer. You will indeed get the answers you desire, though.
 
Re: Newbie just starting S4- Non-Spoilers ONLY!

Oh, I know we have chicks here.

Much love to the ladies.

A while back I made the generalisation that men are way more into sci-fi than the ladies and I got my ass handed to me by the large female contingent.
 
Re: Newbie just starting S4- Non-Spoilers ONLY!

"The Summoning" - What a bizarre episode! It had a "feel" to it that is difficult to describe. I was happy to see Garibaldi come back...where was he? Who captured him? Did I miss something or don't we know yet?
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:LOL: Oh, god how I know that feeling. :LOL:

I thought at that point that I'd missed an episode or something, but no, you have not missed anything. :)
 
Re: Newbie just starting S4- Non-Spoilers ONLY!

And G'Kar!!!! I could barely watch him being tortured. That crazed emperor finally broke him...
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I must say that if you believe that, you missed the point of the scene. The Emperor didn't break G'Kar. He didn't surrender, he didn't beg, he didn't collapse in agony. The Emperor didn't win because for that to happen he would have had to force a scream from G'Kar. And he didn't. G'Kar would have died rather than give Cartagia that satisfaction - and he had the strength to do exactly that. He voluntarily gave up that scream, only because doing so offered the one chance to save his world. But he did it on his terms and he did it in a way that proved Cartagia had not broken him and could never do so.

Remember the situation: G'Kar knows that he has to scream in order to live long enough to help Londo bring down Cartagia and save Narn. He makes the deal with Londo, he's going to scream and he's doing so for a good reason, despite his Narn pride.

Given that, and given that he's basically giving a "fake" scream, why doesn't G'Kar scream on the first or second stroke of the whip?. To show Cartagia how though he is? Who cares. If things go as planned, Cartagia will be dead in a few days anyway.

Why does G'Kar accept the torture and prolong it?

Because the irony is, G'Kar is the one in control of the situation. He "has" the thing the Emperor wants, and he can give it to him at any time. But he chooses to wait until the 39th stroke, until just before the fatal blow.

All alone. In the dark. Where no one will ever know. Sound familiar.

G'Kar does it to show not only Cartagia, but the torturer and the guards and Londo and even Vir what a Narn is capable of. How indomitable they are.

Because Londo, unlike the others, knows about the deal he has made, know that he can end the torture at any time, G'Kar also uses it to teach him a lesson, about the price of freedom and the consequences of his choices. He sacrifices himself, in part, because doing so adds to Londo's crushing load of guilt, his insupportable karmic burden. In doing so he also makes Vir an unwilling witness and victim in all this, but Vir is mostly collateral damage. The target is Londo.

Mostly G"Kar does what he does because that is who he is. This is both the old G'Kar and the new, not as a muddled mixture, but both at full strength, the warrior and the rebel who will not admit defeat, and the priest who will lead his people to freedom, and sacrifice everything for their sake.

The last thing that scene was about was G'Kar "breaking" in any sense of the word. And his ability to convey that is one of the things that made Andreas such a great actor, and this one of his greatest scenes.

Regards,

Joe
 
Re: Newbie just starting S4- Non-Spoilers ONLY!

Joe, you are absolutely right!!! I came to that same conclusion as I thought more about it. He was actually very strong and, as you said, in control of the entire situation. Nevertheless, it was sheer agony for me to watch. Thanks for expounding on the situation; it clarified it for me.
 
Re: Newbie just starting S4- Non-Spoilers ONLY!

G'kar = badass.

I wonder if that scene also helped inspire a certain young Centauri to do certain important things as portrayed in a certain novel trilogy, wink-wink-keeping-this-thread-spoiler-free-nudge
 
Re: Newbie just starting S4- Non-Spoilers ONLY!

For some reason, my wife rather likes the scene of Garibaldi wrapped in cling film. Fortunately, she has never tried to do that to me ... or maybe that should be unfortunately.
 
Re: Newbie just starting S3 - Non-Spoilers ONLY!

Yeah, the way you're watching the series you should definitely hold off on In the Beginning until after the ninth episode of season four which I can tell you (without giving anything away) is called "Atonement".
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Whoa, did I actually catch DeMartino making a mistake with regard to B5 continuity? ;) It is definitely *not* safe to watch "In the Beginning" until after one watches "Rising Star" (Episode 4x21). At the end of ItB, a certain Centauri makes a comment to a child that reveals the fates of two major characters, revealing events that don't happen until 4x21.

She's already seen such S3 eps as Ship of Tears, where we see that Lyta can now block Bester. She is clearly not a P5 any more.
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You must have the special edition of "Ship of Tears"--the version where Lyta appears in the episode. In my version, she doesn't appear in the episode. ;)
 
Re: Newbie just starting S3 - Non-Spoilers ONLY!

It's that darn framing story to ItB. Much as I love it, it does make "In the Beginning" most properly belong (spoiler-wise) near B5's end.
 
Re: Newbie just starting S3 - Non-Spoilers ONLY!

I have decided to wait until I've completed the series before viewing the movies...although I've already seen "The Gathering."

Just finished "Apotheosis." WOW!

That Vorlon ambassador is a real sob, isn't he? I'm glad that piece of Kosh that was inside Sheridan beat the crap out of him. I have a feeling that it's definitely not over with the Vorlons. They sort of went nuts, didn't they?

Poor G'Kar...now I know what happens to his eye. I hope I'll get some emotional satisfaction in seeing that emperor get his...like I did when Refa got his.

Garibaldi's got some "stuff" too, doesn't he? Don't tell me; I know that's coming, too.

I no longer dislike Lorien; after all, he gave his life-energy to heal Sheridan....even if for only 20 years.

This was another sad episode....but fantastically done!
 
Re: Newbie just starting S3 - Non-Spoilers ONLY!

I have decided to wait until I've completed the series before viewing the movies...although I've already seen "The Gathering."

Just finished "Apotheosis." WOW!

That Vorlon ambassador is a real sob, isn't he? I'm glad that piece of Kosh that was inside Sheridan beat the crap out of him. I have a feeling that it's definitely not over with the Vorlons. They sort of went nuts, didn't they?
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Oh, yea. You might say that.
Poor G'Kar...now I know what happens to his eye. I hope I'll get some emotional satisfaction in seeing that emperor get his...like I did when Refa got his.

Garibaldi's got some "stuff" too, doesn't he? Don't tell me; I know that's coming, too.
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My, you are feeling quite vengeful after this episode, aren't you? :LOL:
I no longer dislike Lorien; after all, he gave his life-energy to heal Sheridan....even if for only 20 years.

This was another sad episode....but fantastically done!
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The B5 fan base is split on a lot of things, and this is one of them. Some people liked Lorien, some detested him. I actually never thought that much about him.

He's not exactly the kind of character I can relate to, like G'kar or Londo. But he did, indeed, bring Sheridan back when pretty much nothing else would have at that point.

So, I see you've gone past the episode "Hour of the Wolf" (one of my favorites). :)

Keep enjoying the series. :cool:
 
Re: Newbie just starting S3 - Non-Spoilers ONLY!

Personally, I liked Lorien -- if only because he was so well-played by Wayne Alexander, and because he's got fantastic fingers.
 
Re: Newbie just starting S3 - Non-Spoilers ONLY!

I suspect that in the original story Lorien and Sheidan would have killed the first Kosh in this episode. Killing her friend and God would have messed Lyta up even more.
 
Re: Newbie just starting S3 - Non-Spoilers ONLY!

What makes you say that? I gather you think the way JMS originally planned the story, Kosh would undergo a personality transplant somewhere along the way?
 
Re: Newbie just starting S3 - Non-Spoilers ONLY!

I suspect that in the original story Lorien and Sheidan would have killed the first Kosh in this episode. Killing her friend and God would have messed Lyta up even more.
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The First Kosh? I never imagined anything like that. Kosh I has never done anything to warrant that?
 
Re: Newbie just starting S3 - Non-Spoilers ONLY!

Personally, I liked Lorien -- if only because he was so well-played by Wayne Alexander, and because he's got fantastic fingers.
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I thought those fingers were kind of creepy. Wayne Alexander is always good though. But I never really thought much about Lorien one way or the other.
 
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