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paramount stole it .........
- Thread starter Shaal Mayan
- Start date
I knew that paramount stole the idea, I even mentioned on this site before (no, I won't search for it, it was a long time ago and it didn't have it's own thread), and someone told me I was wrong, and now all of you say that person is wrong.
A thing you guys forgot, in DS9, Bashir was going to be a homosexual, like Talia and Susan in B5.
I like DS9 best of all the ST series. The basic settings, characters, and major themes were taking B5. But it had it's differences. The Breen switching sides in the war. The cardassians rebell against the Dominion. There aren't any parallels in B5. (It wasn't the Centauri that rebelled, it was Londo). More examples: Odo's search for his homeworld. They lost DS9, then had to get it back. The Bajorans effect on the station. (At one point they tried to take it over. And they treated the place as holy.)
ahem "Gul Dukat" former commander of Terok Nor, then soldier, ally to Weyoun and his gods, then ally to the Pah Wraiths.
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2466614
"Gideon says we all have things to hide."
"Does he? How unfortunate, I was hoping he'd come further than that. Well not that it isn't true of course, it's just that one simply doesn't have to say it."
Trillian Universal Chat Program
A thing you guys forgot, in DS9, Bashir was going to be a homosexual, like Talia and Susan in B5.
I like DS9 best of all the ST series. The basic settings, characters, and major themes were taking B5. But it had it's differences. The Breen switching sides in the war. The cardassians rebell against the Dominion. There aren't any parallels in B5. (It wasn't the Centauri that rebelled, it was Londo). More examples: Odo's search for his homeworld. They lost DS9, then had to get it back. The Bajorans effect on the station. (At one point they tried to take it over. And they treated the place as holy.)
ahem "Gul Dukat" former commander of Terok Nor, then soldier, ally to Weyoun and his gods, then ally to the Pah Wraiths.
------------------
2466614
"Gideon says we all have things to hide."
"Does he? How unfortunate, I was hoping he'd come further than that. Well not that it isn't true of course, it's just that one simply doesn't have to say it."
Trillian Universal Chat Program
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR> you gotta admit that when it was good, it was the best stuff on TV.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
No I don't. I can't recall ever hearing of an episode that sounded "Good" when it was described.
And it was certainly never the "best" of anything.
Even TOS, much as I enjoyed it, had a lot of warts.
Most of them on James Tiberius.
------------------
Do not ascribe your own motivations to others:
At best, it will break your heart.
At worst, it will get you dead."
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
No I don't. I can't recall ever hearing of an episode that sounded "Good" when it was described.
And it was certainly never the "best" of anything.
Even TOS, much as I enjoyed it, had a lot of warts.
Most of them on James Tiberius.
------------------
Do not ascribe your own motivations to others:
At best, it will break your heart.
At worst, it will get you dead."
D
**DONOTDELETE**
Guest
To GKarEyes
Just try telling me that Gol Dukhat (sp?) wasn't one of the greatest characters in all TV.
Gol Dukhat (sp?) wasn't one of the greatest characters in all TV.
There you go....you've been told.
------------------
Just try telling me that Gol Dukhat (sp?) wasn't one of the greatest characters in all TV.
Gol Dukhat (sp?) wasn't one of the greatest characters in all TV.
There you go....you've been told.
------------------
En'til'zha
Beyond the rim
I know that Paramount stole the idea for DS9, but so what? You can't copyright an idea, just the application of it and you have to admit the application of the same idea turned out very different with DS9 and B5.
I liked DS9. The only problem I had with it was the ending which was a little anti-climatic and didn't actually solve anything. There were also a scattering of poor episodes, especially those involving transporter or holosuite accidents or the alternate dimension.
Yes they used the same idea, but at the end of the day the two shows are worlds apart.
------------------
"Watch the Shadows, they move when you're not looking..."
I liked DS9. The only problem I had with it was the ending which was a little anti-climatic and didn't actually solve anything. There were also a scattering of poor episodes, especially those involving transporter or holosuite accidents or the alternate dimension.
Yes they used the same idea, but at the end of the day the two shows are worlds apart.
------------------
"Watch the Shadows, they move when you're not looking..."
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GKarsEye:
With all the problems you people have with Trek, you gotta admit that when it was good, it was the best stuff on TV.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I like Star Trek. I still like Star Trek. I don't watch Enterprise because I can't. I stopped watching Voyager less than halfway through the run because it no longer had the balls to keep me interested (not even a female captain could do it).
But DS9 - wow. It was a great, great show. And I grew up on TNG. I can't forsake my Picard, dude.
I'll be there in November for the movie, of course. But I don't hate the franchise!
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channe@[url="http://cryoterrace.tripod.com"]cryoterrace[/url] | "I wonder," said Frodo, "but I don't know. And that's the way of a real tale."
With all the problems you people have with Trek, you gotta admit that when it was good, it was the best stuff on TV.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I like Star Trek. I still like Star Trek. I don't watch Enterprise because I can't. I stopped watching Voyager less than halfway through the run because it no longer had the balls to keep me interested (not even a female captain could do it).
But DS9 - wow. It was a great, great show. And I grew up on TNG. I can't forsake my Picard, dude.
I'll be there in November for the movie, of course. But I don't hate the franchise!
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channe@[url="http://cryoterrace.tripod.com"]cryoterrace[/url] | "I wonder," said Frodo, "but I don't know. And that's the way of a real tale."
Read Joseph Campbell's "Hero With A Thousand Faces" for God's sakes. You'll discover that everyone, in every culture, in every part of the world essentially tells the same story over and over again -- especially when it comes to stories about heroes. The mythic journey of Sheridan and Sisko is essentially no different than that of Frodo or Skywalker or Odesyeus (sp) -- they all follow the same patterns and essentially end up in the same places. It is quite common for the hero figure to become almost "godlike" near the end of his journeys -- they usually wind-up living forever in some far off mystical plane or they simply dissipate and become one with the universe.
As far as the Narns and Bajorian similarities... this is quite common as well. There is usually some group of people who have been harmed by a far superior force and the hero (who either comes from these people or is adopted into their culture) is "called" by some mystical being or force of nature into a series of adventures, or conflicts, or trials until he becomes something greater than what he was before. After which, he usually returns to the downtrodden people as a savior or, in some rare cases, as a misunderstood quack (hence the catch-phrase, you can never go home again).
The definant and the whitestar are no different than Alladin's magic carpet, Perseus's flying steeed, Hermes winged sandals, or Han Solo's Millenium Falcon.
------------------
"Dawn's in trouble? Must be Tuesday." -- Buffy Summers, "Once More With Feeling."
As far as the Narns and Bajorian similarities... this is quite common as well. There is usually some group of people who have been harmed by a far superior force and the hero (who either comes from these people or is adopted into their culture) is "called" by some mystical being or force of nature into a series of adventures, or conflicts, or trials until he becomes something greater than what he was before. After which, he usually returns to the downtrodden people as a savior or, in some rare cases, as a misunderstood quack (hence the catch-phrase, you can never go home again).
The definant and the whitestar are no different than Alladin's magic carpet, Perseus's flying steeed, Hermes winged sandals, or Han Solo's Millenium Falcon.
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"Dawn's in trouble? Must be Tuesday." -- Buffy Summers, "Once More With Feeling."
The thing about DS9 that annoys us is not so much the theft as the Motive.
Paramont decided to "create" and produce DS9 ONLY after they heard that JMS had sold Babylon 5 to PTEN/Warners.
They had earlier rejected B5 because it wasn't "Trek".
DS9 was a "preemptive strike" intended to scuttle Babylon 5 before it got started.
Paramont's PTB were determined that Trek was going to be the Only SF show on Television.
They didn't want any competition.
Particularly not competition that might make Them look bad.
------------------
Do not ascribe your own motivations to others:
At best, it will break your heart.
At worst, it will get you dead."
Paramont decided to "create" and produce DS9 ONLY after they heard that JMS had sold Babylon 5 to PTEN/Warners.
They had earlier rejected B5 because it wasn't "Trek".
DS9 was a "preemptive strike" intended to scuttle Babylon 5 before it got started.
Paramont's PTB were determined that Trek was going to be the Only SF show on Television.
They didn't want any competition.
Particularly not competition that might make Them look bad.
------------------
Do not ascribe your own motivations to others:
At best, it will break your heart.
At worst, it will get you dead."
Joseph DeMartino
Moderator
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>The thing about DS9 that annoys us is not so much the theft as the Motive.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
That and the fact that their plan worked.
A great many stations were intimidated into not airing the B5 pilot, and later the series, and a lot of people thought that B5 was a copy of DS9 because The Gathering aired a week or so after The Emissary.
Since the DS9 pilot went into production after the B5 pilot, Paramount had to spend a fortune rushing it through post-production and saved what time and money it could by having the script revised so that most of it took place aboard the Enterprise (or an identical starship) so that the existing TNG sets could be used as much as possible.
It was a thoroughly cynical exercise from beginning to end, and given the untold crap that B5 fans have had to put up with over the years I don't see anything wrong with reminding people exactly who stole what from whom.
Quite aside from the generic elements of adventure stories (and DS9, not really being an arc show, didn't really adhere to the Hero archetype in any event) there are a number of quite specific things that the Paramount development people made sure that the producers put into the new show. (Said producers, of course, had no notion where these ideas came from, since they had never had access to the B5 materials and wouldn't have deliberately cribbed from them if they had - as JMS has repeatedly said.)
1) Series set aboard a space station - which Trek had never done or even considered until after it rejected B5.
2) The "jello man", a shapeshifter. The draft of the pilot that Paramount saw had a shape-shifter as the assassin, inspired by the then-new technology of "morphing" via computer. By the time The Gathering went into production JMS had dropped the idea because he thought morphing was old hat. But Paramount hadn't seen the later drafts...
3) A space station where stories come to the main characters via an interstellar gateway - in the case of DS9 a "stable wormhole" - something which had never before existed in the Trek universe. (The only time the notion had been suggested it turned out the wormhole wasn't stable.) The really stupid part about this bit of larceny is that it was unnecessary. Trek has warp drive. You don't need a jumpgate or anything like it. But the theives were so literal-minded that they couldn't see this, hence the wormhole.
4) The commander of the station is associated with an alien religious prophecy. Oh, yeah this happens all the time in TV SF. Practically a cliche, it is.
Need I go on?
Regards,
Joe
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Joseph DeMartino
Sigh Corps
Pat Tallman Division
joseph-demartino@att.net
That and the fact that their plan worked.
Since the DS9 pilot went into production after the B5 pilot, Paramount had to spend a fortune rushing it through post-production and saved what time and money it could by having the script revised so that most of it took place aboard the Enterprise (or an identical starship) so that the existing TNG sets could be used as much as possible.
It was a thoroughly cynical exercise from beginning to end, and given the untold crap that B5 fans have had to put up with over the years I don't see anything wrong with reminding people exactly who stole what from whom.
Quite aside from the generic elements of adventure stories (and DS9, not really being an arc show, didn't really adhere to the Hero archetype in any event) there are a number of quite specific things that the Paramount development people made sure that the producers put into the new show. (Said producers, of course, had no notion where these ideas came from, since they had never had access to the B5 materials and wouldn't have deliberately cribbed from them if they had - as JMS has repeatedly said.)
1) Series set aboard a space station - which Trek had never done or even considered until after it rejected B5.
2) The "jello man", a shapeshifter. The draft of the pilot that Paramount saw had a shape-shifter as the assassin, inspired by the then-new technology of "morphing" via computer. By the time The Gathering went into production JMS had dropped the idea because he thought morphing was old hat. But Paramount hadn't seen the later drafts...
3) A space station where stories come to the main characters via an interstellar gateway - in the case of DS9 a "stable wormhole" - something which had never before existed in the Trek universe. (The only time the notion had been suggested it turned out the wormhole wasn't stable.) The really stupid part about this bit of larceny is that it was unnecessary. Trek has warp drive. You don't need a jumpgate or anything like it. But the theives were so literal-minded that they couldn't see this, hence the wormhole.
4) The commander of the station is associated with an alien religious prophecy. Oh, yeah this happens all the time in TV SF. Practically a cliche, it is.
Need I go on?
Regards,
Joe
------------------
Joseph DeMartino
Sigh Corps
Pat Tallman Division
joseph-demartino@att.net
GKarsEye
Regular
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR> Trek has warp drive. You don't need a jumpgate or anything like it <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Have you ever seen DS9? The jumpgate was absolutely necessary: the whole point was that it exposed them to an area of space that they would not have been able to get to otherwise. It also was where the Prophets lived, a crucial element to the story.
The fact is, you're going on circumstancial evidence. Is it possible? Hells yeah. Do I believe it? Let's just say I wouldn't be surprised. But none of use where there that faithful day when they supposedly sat around the boardroom saying, "Hey, this Babylon 5 thing is cool, so let's take all the ideas for a new Trek show and sabotage this."
Babylon 5 fans rightfully complain when Trekkies attack it. Yet I really don't see a better attitude from Babylon 5 fans.
Quite frankly, it's a silly waste of energy.
(And this after I had to convince people earlier this week that they didn't have to constantly compare Lord of the Rings and Star Wars. The universe is truly a sad when the mighty GKarsEye acts as the peacemaker.)
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"You do not make history. You can only hope to survive it."
Have you ever seen DS9? The jumpgate was absolutely necessary: the whole point was that it exposed them to an area of space that they would not have been able to get to otherwise. It also was where the Prophets lived, a crucial element to the story.
The fact is, you're going on circumstancial evidence. Is it possible? Hells yeah. Do I believe it? Let's just say I wouldn't be surprised. But none of use where there that faithful day when they supposedly sat around the boardroom saying, "Hey, this Babylon 5 thing is cool, so let's take all the ideas for a new Trek show and sabotage this."
Babylon 5 fans rightfully complain when Trekkies attack it. Yet I really don't see a better attitude from Babylon 5 fans.
Quite frankly, it's a silly waste of energy.
(And this after I had to convince people earlier this week that they didn't have to constantly compare Lord of the Rings and Star Wars. The universe is truly a sad when the mighty GKarsEye acts as the peacemaker.)
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"You do not make history. You can only hope to survive it."
D
**DONOTDELETE**
Guest
I know that I'm going to get ripped apart, but I feel that it is my ethical duty to defend DS9.
I think the problem is that Trek is getting ripped up, not because it's not good, but because it's not as good as B5. Alright, so lets get this straight, B5 is most intelligent and well written thing ever to be on tv, nothing, probably even spinoffs, will ever compare to B5. So lets stop being so critical.
This is not to say that I'm defending Star Trek, because it does have a lot of problems, and there were entire seasons of Voyager that were just unwatchable. But it really isn't that bad of a franchise. DS9 though, is treated by the franchise like a red headed step child. In a lot of circles it is ridiculed and often even ignored. This in my opinion is a crime because DS9 was the best series of the 5.
It may be true that much of it was ripped off of B5, and why this should give JMS a reason to be not so happy with it, sci fi fans should rejoice in the fact that this theft led to the development of an uncharacteriscal star trek series. Character development is among the best I've ever seen. Through the 7 years it is great to watch relationships develop between Bashir adn Obrien(my favorite), jake and nog, or odo and quark.
The arch of the plot with the dominain war is also very uncharacteristic of trek, but was one of my favorite parts of the show.
All in all trek is not a horrible franchise, and DS9 is where it mostly stands out in my mind. It is intelligent and character driven and I just felt the need to defend my favorite trek.
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I think the problem is that Trek is getting ripped up, not because it's not good, but because it's not as good as B5. Alright, so lets get this straight, B5 is most intelligent and well written thing ever to be on tv, nothing, probably even spinoffs, will ever compare to B5. So lets stop being so critical.
This is not to say that I'm defending Star Trek, because it does have a lot of problems, and there were entire seasons of Voyager that were just unwatchable. But it really isn't that bad of a franchise. DS9 though, is treated by the franchise like a red headed step child. In a lot of circles it is ridiculed and often even ignored. This in my opinion is a crime because DS9 was the best series of the 5.
It may be true that much of it was ripped off of B5, and why this should give JMS a reason to be not so happy with it, sci fi fans should rejoice in the fact that this theft led to the development of an uncharacteriscal star trek series. Character development is among the best I've ever seen. Through the 7 years it is great to watch relationships develop between Bashir adn Obrien(my favorite), jake and nog, or odo and quark.
The arch of the plot with the dominain war is also very uncharacteristic of trek, but was one of my favorite parts of the show.
All in all trek is not a horrible franchise, and DS9 is where it mostly stands out in my mind. It is intelligent and character driven and I just felt the need to defend my favorite trek.
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Technomage Roanna
Regular
DS9 is my favorite Trek incarnation as well.
And the problem is with some misbegotten git or gits in the Paramount Executive Suite, not with the writers/producers of DS9 itself.
They took notes from the studio, as happens on any project. They had not the slightest way of knowing that the B5 project had been shopped to Paramount and had the development papers still sitting in the files for someone with more nominally more taste than ethics to cannabilize.
The best revenge is thriving to spite the ba$tards. That's my plan, anyway...
Ro
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A ship in a port is safe, but that's not what ships are for.
Rear Admiral Grace Murray Hopper
And the problem is with some misbegotten git or gits in the Paramount Executive Suite, not with the writers/producers of DS9 itself.
They took notes from the studio, as happens on any project. They had not the slightest way of knowing that the B5 project had been shopped to Paramount and had the development papers still sitting in the files for someone with more nominally more taste than ethics to cannabilize.
The best revenge is thriving to spite the ba$tards. That's my plan, anyway...
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A ship in a port is safe, but that's not what ships are for.
Rear Admiral Grace Murray Hopper
When DS9 first came on, I watched it, since I was still into Trek. But I drifted away before the first season was over. As for B5, I didn't see it until 1998, when TNT picked it up. To this day, I can still watch the reruns & not get bored. I haven't watched any Trek in quite awhile.
Tammy
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"We're in here! Can anyone hear us?"
"I hear you." [giggle, laugh]
"In here!"
"We are here." [giggle, laugh]
-- Londo and G'Kar in Babylon 5:"Convictions"
Tammy's Station
http://community.webtv.net/gkarfan/TammysStation
Tammy
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"We're in here! Can anyone hear us?"
"I hear you." [giggle, laugh]
"In here!"
"We are here." [giggle, laugh]
-- Londo and G'Kar in Babylon 5:"Convictions"
Tammy's Station
http://community.webtv.net/gkarfan/TammysStation
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>and DS9, not really being an arc show, didn't really adhere to the Hero archetype in any event <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
It didn't? Then I suppose that all that stuff about being the emissary, battling the pah wraiths and eventually becoming a god was all nonsenese. Just because you didn't see it that way doesn't mean it didn't follow the usual hero archetype.
As far as the so-called theft goes, I don't know what the hell went on and until someone comes up with some real evidence I'm not going to paticipate in slandering people. Essentially all you've got is a bunch of coincidences and suspicions -- none of which convinces me beyond a preponderance of the evidence that some kind of theft of intellectual property went on. Like I've said before, the real similarities between the two shows began to show up way after they first aired -- in which case you basically have one show "borrowing inspiration" from another. I'm not sure if I like that or not either, but that's simply the nature of the beast -- you come up with an idea for a reality-based tv show like Survivor and before you can turn your head there's a dozen others just like it.
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"Dawn's in trouble? Must be Tuesday." -- Buffy Summers, "Once More With Feeling."
It didn't? Then I suppose that all that stuff about being the emissary, battling the pah wraiths and eventually becoming a god was all nonsenese. Just because you didn't see it that way doesn't mean it didn't follow the usual hero archetype.
As far as the so-called theft goes, I don't know what the hell went on and until someone comes up with some real evidence I'm not going to paticipate in slandering people. Essentially all you've got is a bunch of coincidences and suspicions -- none of which convinces me beyond a preponderance of the evidence that some kind of theft of intellectual property went on. Like I've said before, the real similarities between the two shows began to show up way after they first aired -- in which case you basically have one show "borrowing inspiration" from another. I'm not sure if I like that or not either, but that's simply the nature of the beast -- you come up with an idea for a reality-based tv show like Survivor and before you can turn your head there's a dozen others just like it.
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"Dawn's in trouble? Must be Tuesday." -- Buffy Summers, "Once More With Feeling."
Raindog, you've obviously missed the quoted posts from JMS stating that O'Hare only left about 3 episodes earlier than he had originally been scheduled to leave.
Both JMS and O'Hare agreed that it would be A Better story to have Sinclair disappear right after the presidential assasination than to have him hang around for several episodes where he really had nothing to do.
That part of the story (the setup & foreshadowing and "get aquainted") was pretty much Over.
Getting Sheridan into the story at that time helped get the Real story kicked into high gear a bit sooner.
JMS even said at one point that O'Hare had made a few story suggestions that got used in the scripts he wrote later.
As far as the Trek thing, we've posted several times, it's not the imitation that annoys us.
It's the Motive and Attitude of Paramont's honchos.
That and their attempts to scuttle B5 so they wouldn't have any Other SF show to compete with.
------------------
Do not ascribe your own motivations to others:
At best, it will break your heart.
At worst, it will get you dead."
Both JMS and O'Hare agreed that it would be A Better story to have Sinclair disappear right after the presidential assasination than to have him hang around for several episodes where he really had nothing to do.
That part of the story (the setup & foreshadowing and "get aquainted") was pretty much Over.
Getting Sheridan into the story at that time helped get the Real story kicked into high gear a bit sooner.
JMS even said at one point that O'Hare had made a few story suggestions that got used in the scripts he wrote later.
As far as the Trek thing, we've posted several times, it's not the imitation that annoys us.
It's the Motive and Attitude of Paramont's honchos.
That and their attempts to scuttle B5 so they wouldn't have any Other SF show to compete with.
------------------
Do not ascribe your own motivations to others:
At best, it will break your heart.
At worst, it will get you dead."
The two series both grew from the same seed of story. Neither series exactly resembles what Joe appears to have had in mind (captain goes back in time in the final episode to become the god associated with the alien legends about him) because both series were shot in the real world. But look on the Lurker's Guide or in the "jms speaks" archives around the net and see his descriptions of the show from before it aired. Once you scrape off 5 years of outside influences, the stories are plainly grown from the same germ.
DS9 is my favorite Trek series but towards the end I rarely watched it, since it'd just gotten too cheesy and Bermanny. (I'll take Daffy Duck over an imaginary lounge singer any day if they must insert gratuitous present-day references.)
But Season 5 of B5 also suffered, from TNT, from the story having been wrapped up in Season 4, and from the introduction of an astonishingly poorly cast female lead, and in the end, from the defection of the series' central character a year in. If O'Hare had left one year later, the show's dramatic punch would have ended up as anemic as DS9, so we can be thankful for that.
Naturally there are many DS9 details that differ from Joe's story idea. Joe's pitch was probably a couple hours at most (and from his descriptions, probably covered only the backstory, the basics of the Shadow War, and Sleeping in Light) and the series required about 115.5 hours of story. I bet most of the writers didn't even know the execs were using a nicked storyline until they saw B5, and even then some probably thought B5 was the imitator.
But that kind of thing happens all the time in Hollywood; look at the spate of "earth in peril from outer space object" features and MOW's that got produced all at once a few years back, or the timing of Antz and A Bug's Life, or all the failed Friends clones. I'm pleased I got the chance to see what B5 would have looked like if Joe'd gone to work for Paramount -- because you know they would have forced him out after a year anyway -- while also getting the real deal. I don't watch Trek anymore (I gave Enterprise a try but I found it not so fresh) but B5 rekindled my interest in science fiction and I'm forever grateful.
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DS9 is my favorite Trek series but towards the end I rarely watched it, since it'd just gotten too cheesy and Bermanny. (I'll take Daffy Duck over an imaginary lounge singer any day if they must insert gratuitous present-day references.)
But Season 5 of B5 also suffered, from TNT, from the story having been wrapped up in Season 4, and from the introduction of an astonishingly poorly cast female lead, and in the end, from the defection of the series' central character a year in. If O'Hare had left one year later, the show's dramatic punch would have ended up as anemic as DS9, so we can be thankful for that.
Naturally there are many DS9 details that differ from Joe's story idea. Joe's pitch was probably a couple hours at most (and from his descriptions, probably covered only the backstory, the basics of the Shadow War, and Sleeping in Light) and the series required about 115.5 hours of story. I bet most of the writers didn't even know the execs were using a nicked storyline until they saw B5, and even then some probably thought B5 was the imitator.
But that kind of thing happens all the time in Hollywood; look at the spate of "earth in peril from outer space object" features and MOW's that got produced all at once a few years back, or the timing of Antz and A Bug's Life, or all the failed Friends clones. I'm pleased I got the chance to see what B5 would have looked like if Joe'd gone to work for Paramount -- because you know they would have forced him out after a year anyway -- while also getting the real deal. I don't watch Trek anymore (I gave Enterprise a try but I found it not so fresh) but B5 rekindled my interest in science fiction and I'm forever grateful.
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hmmm, think this is my first post here... so, uh, yeah!
okay, skimming this thread here... yeah, there are some similarities between DS9 and B5. on a BASIC LEVEL, and even then there are disparities.
the story of b5 (in a nutshell): a UN like space station with a mission to preserve the peace gets caught in the middle of galactic upheaval caused by the rivalry between the vorlons and the shadows. in the end the galaxy is freed from their control, and the rest is spent cleaning up their mess.
the story of ds9 (in an equally small nutshell): a federation administered station on the mouth of a wormhold becomes a center for trade and exploration of newly discovered teritories. an alien race set on domination is discoverd, a war ensues but the enemy is eventually defeated.
hmmm... seems different enough to me!
now, as to the comparisions at the beginning of the thread...
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>
ie sheridan becoming a god
sisko becoming a god
the bajorans = the narns
the dominion = the shadows
the defiant = the whitestar
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
well i wouldnt exactly say that sheridan or sisko became a god... but i guess thats subjective. anyway, sisko never became a prophet, he was just their tool in the real world.
now the bajorians didnt equal the narns, they actually equaled the occupied teritories of WWII. and the cardassians equaled nazi germany... this was shown in both DS9 and in TNG (but during DS9's run, they crossed a few times).
the dominion certanly doesnt equal the shadows.. the shadows were trying to promote evolution through chaos... the dominion simply wanted to dominate.
the whitestar and the defiant were also not the same... i think the defiant was put it mostly because they wanted to bring the stories away from being tied down to the station... although this is probably where the two shows intersect the most.
but what really seperated the two is that the arc of DS9 was not fully planned out beforehand, as it was in B5. the writers didnt decided at the beginning of the show that odo's people would be the founders at the center of the dominion... theres one story i can think of in the earlier seasons about odo's origins that tell a completely different story (forget the ep name though).
so while i will admit that the original premise of DS9 may have been a bit, lets say, inspired by B5, as both shows evolved they became two completely different things. and isnt where you end up and how you get there more important then where you start out?
and as to the comment about the battles in ds9 being inferior to the b5 ones... well FI did the FX for B5 seasons 1-3... and FI carried part of the load for DS9 when they switched over to CG... so
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okay, skimming this thread here... yeah, there are some similarities between DS9 and B5. on a BASIC LEVEL, and even then there are disparities.
the story of b5 (in a nutshell): a UN like space station with a mission to preserve the peace gets caught in the middle of galactic upheaval caused by the rivalry between the vorlons and the shadows. in the end the galaxy is freed from their control, and the rest is spent cleaning up their mess.
the story of ds9 (in an equally small nutshell): a federation administered station on the mouth of a wormhold becomes a center for trade and exploration of newly discovered teritories. an alien race set on domination is discoverd, a war ensues but the enemy is eventually defeated.
hmmm... seems different enough to me!
now, as to the comparisions at the beginning of the thread...
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>
ie sheridan becoming a god
sisko becoming a god
the bajorans = the narns
the dominion = the shadows
the defiant = the whitestar
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
well i wouldnt exactly say that sheridan or sisko became a god... but i guess thats subjective. anyway, sisko never became a prophet, he was just their tool in the real world.
now the bajorians didnt equal the narns, they actually equaled the occupied teritories of WWII. and the cardassians equaled nazi germany... this was shown in both DS9 and in TNG (but during DS9's run, they crossed a few times).
the dominion certanly doesnt equal the shadows.. the shadows were trying to promote evolution through chaos... the dominion simply wanted to dominate.
the whitestar and the defiant were also not the same... i think the defiant was put it mostly because they wanted to bring the stories away from being tied down to the station... although this is probably where the two shows intersect the most.
but what really seperated the two is that the arc of DS9 was not fully planned out beforehand, as it was in B5. the writers didnt decided at the beginning of the show that odo's people would be the founders at the center of the dominion... theres one story i can think of in the earlier seasons about odo's origins that tell a completely different story (forget the ep name though).
so while i will admit that the original premise of DS9 may have been a bit, lets say, inspired by B5, as both shows evolved they became two completely different things. and isnt where you end up and how you get there more important then where you start out?
and as to the comment about the battles in ds9 being inferior to the b5 ones... well FI did the FX for B5 seasons 1-3... and FI carried part of the load for DS9 when they switched over to CG... so
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again, somewhat of a matter of opinion... no where did they say expressely that he did, and he implied that he would be back some day, plus the prophets still refered to him as 'The Sisko', making him seem different from the other prophets... he certanly wound up *with* the prophets, but he also made it clear that he would be back someday... or yesterday, as it wasn't quite linear
but thats a minor quible...
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"Every technomage knows the fourteen words to make someone fall in love with you forever. She only needed one. Hello." -Galen, Crusade
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but thats a minor quible...
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"Every technomage knows the fourteen words to make someone fall in love with you forever. She only needed one. Hello." -Galen, Crusade
### Hi, I'm a sig virus. Please add me to the end of your signature so I can take over the world.### - caught from Saps @ B5MG
