coldsoup753
Regular
In War Zone, what are martian citizens doing on an EA explorer ship? Wouldn't Mars be independant now? They also refer to it as Mars colony.
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Question
- Thread starter coldsoup753
- Start date
M
MOmega
Guest
I exactly don't know. But I guess, that Mars has still huge relations to Earth. May be, Mars uses some of EA ships,...
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TheInfection
Regular
It was clear that Mars still had problems with Earth at the end of the Season 5 of B5. Of course Earth still wants to control Mars because of the possible profits and won't pretty much care about different orders of ISA.
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Joseph DeMartino
Moderator
EarthForce drew members from all of the worlds of the Earth Alliance. Taxes from the colonies would have helped pay for it, bases on the colonies would have handled maintenance and supply functions for the ships.
After independence, how would the EA have sorted this all out? They couldn't have afforded to drum every serving officer and enlisted crewman from Mars and Proxima and the other colonies out of the service the day after Sheridan and the Earth President reached their agreement. Some kind of power and resource-sharing arrangement must have been worked out, with some ships falling under the direct authority of the colonies or of Earth, and others "pooled" for the common good. (The colonies would want to be in a position to defend themselves against reconquest by Earth, but at the same time Humans everywhere would inevitably have interests in common.) If any class of vessel remained a shared resource it probably would have been the Explorers.
Regards,
Joe
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Joseph DeMartino
Sigh Corps
Pat Tallman Division
joseph-demartino@att.net
After independence, how would the EA have sorted this all out? They couldn't have afforded to drum every serving officer and enlisted crewman from Mars and Proxima and the other colonies out of the service the day after Sheridan and the Earth President reached their agreement. Some kind of power and resource-sharing arrangement must have been worked out, with some ships falling under the direct authority of the colonies or of Earth, and others "pooled" for the common good. (The colonies would want to be in a position to defend themselves against reconquest by Earth, but at the same time Humans everywhere would inevitably have interests in common.) If any class of vessel remained a shared resource it probably would have been the Explorers.
Regards,
Joe
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Joseph DeMartino
Sigh Corps
Pat Tallman Division
joseph-demartino@att.net
GideonsMine
Beyond the rim
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jomar:
I just knew Joe would be able to explain it.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yes, he is our resident Guru and we all love and admire him immensely.
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Colleen L. Stanford
Gideon's Mine, all Mine
(he just doesn't know it yet, LOL)
I just knew Joe would be able to explain it.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yes, he is our resident Guru and we all love and admire him immensely.
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Colleen L. Stanford
Gideon's Mine, all Mine
(he just doesn't know it yet, LOL)
There is also the possibility that not Everyone from Mars was in favor of independence.
Under any regime, there will always be those who are better off than the average. And they would be in favor of keeping the status quo. Especially if they Lost Money when Mars became independent.
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Yes, I like cats too.
Shall we exchange Recipes?
Under any regime, there will always be those who are better off than the average. And they would be in favor of keeping the status quo. Especially if they Lost Money when Mars became independent.
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Yes, I like cats too.
Shall we exchange Recipes?
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WarpPig:
Think of it from the crew's point of view - so there's a change in governmant. Happens every few years or so anyway. Does that make you quit your job? Not me...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
No... but it makes me want to quit my country.
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Dreg: "Most beauteous and supremely magnificent one, this dark spell I hold in my worthless and scabby hand is our gift to you, most tingly and wonderful Glorificus..."
Glory: "Please, call me Glory. And get up, looking at you is hurting my neck."
Dreg: "Forgive me, shiny special one. I beg of you to rip out my inadequate tongue."
Glory: "Gimme."
Think of it from the crew's point of view - so there's a change in governmant. Happens every few years or so anyway. Does that make you quit your job? Not me...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
No... but it makes me want to quit my country.
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Dreg: "Most beauteous and supremely magnificent one, this dark spell I hold in my worthless and scabby hand is our gift to you, most tingly and wonderful Glorificus..."
Glory: "Please, call me Glory. And get up, looking at you is hurting my neck."
Dreg: "Forgive me, shiny special one. I beg of you to rip out my inadequate tongue."
Glory: "Gimme."
M
MOmega
Guest
May be, another reason for so huge relation between Earth and Mars after events in Call to Arms is that Earthgov was moved to Mars and Mars is now the biggest Human colony that can trade with other worlds and colonies.
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Maybe it's something like the Rangers and athe ISA member worlds. The Minbari, Narn, Earth, Brakiri, Drazi, etc. are all considered independent of one another, yet anyone from these species can join the Rangers. Mars wouldn't have been able to form it's own stellar force, so there was probably some kind of agreement allowing all humans from the various colonies, not just Earth, can join Earth force and use Earth ships.
-Natron
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-Natron
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Joseph DeMartino
Moderator
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>But Earth could run out of money pretty quickly. The only exports they could provide would be information, not goods or services. The Earth economy would be in one hell of a mess pretty damn quickly.
So who would be paying for Earthforce while Earth is under quarantine?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Gee, we seem to have plenty of economic activity right now, and we're not trading with aliens. Why shouldn't our economy continue to function the same way even after first contact?
80 to 90% of Earth's economic activity probably has nothing to do with off-world trade. Many alien items would have be of no use or interest to Humans and vice versa, and anything that was of interest would have to be wanted enough to justify the enormous price of interstellar transport - in other words, luxuries for the most part. They would also have to be items that couldn't be easily manufactured on the world importing them.
Information can be a service, as Brother Theo's monks and millions of telecommuters world wide have proven. So that part of the economy should stay intact. Taxes would still be collected to pay for things like EarthForce from the internal economy - and from the newly independent colonies.
Odds are that even after Earth ceased to govern places like Proxima and Mars directly, the Earth Alliance continued to exist in the form of a mutual defense alliance. The colonies likely couldn't support large military establishments of their own, and EarthGov couldn't maintain EarthForce at its previous strength without tax revenues from the colonies.
So EF is either a shared organization or the colonies are paying to have EF provide security for their systems, much as private groups pay municipalities to have local police provide security for concerts, parades and other public events. None of this is discussed in the series, but it is an almost inevitable consequence of the break-up of Earth's colonial system.
The fact that Mars natives are serving on an EF explorer ship in the Crusade episode "War Zone" was raised in another thread and the only reasonable explanation seems to be that EarthForce has become a shared resource for the Humans on various worlds.
Regards,
Joe
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Joseph DeMartino aka Jody Martino
Sigh Corps
Pat Tallman Division
joseph-demartino@att.net
So who would be paying for Earthforce while Earth is under quarantine?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Gee, we seem to have plenty of economic activity right now, and we're not trading with aliens. Why shouldn't our economy continue to function the same way even after first contact?
80 to 90% of Earth's economic activity probably has nothing to do with off-world trade. Many alien items would have be of no use or interest to Humans and vice versa, and anything that was of interest would have to be wanted enough to justify the enormous price of interstellar transport - in other words, luxuries for the most part. They would also have to be items that couldn't be easily manufactured on the world importing them.
Information can be a service, as Brother Theo's monks and millions of telecommuters world wide have proven. So that part of the economy should stay intact. Taxes would still be collected to pay for things like EarthForce from the internal economy - and from the newly independent colonies.
Odds are that even after Earth ceased to govern places like Proxima and Mars directly, the Earth Alliance continued to exist in the form of a mutual defense alliance. The colonies likely couldn't support large military establishments of their own, and EarthGov couldn't maintain EarthForce at its previous strength without tax revenues from the colonies.
So EF is either a shared organization or the colonies are paying to have EF provide security for their systems, much as private groups pay municipalities to have local police provide security for concerts, parades and other public events. None of this is discussed in the series, but it is an almost inevitable consequence of the break-up of Earth's colonial system.
The fact that Mars natives are serving on an EF explorer ship in the Crusade episode "War Zone" was raised in another thread and the only reasonable explanation seems to be that EarthForce has become a shared resource for the Humans on various worlds.
Regards,
Joe
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Joseph DeMartino aka Jody Martino
Sigh Corps
Pat Tallman Division
joseph-demartino@att.net
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR> Gee, we seem to have plenty of economic activity right now, and we're not trading with aliens. Why shouldn't our economy continue to function the same way even after first contact? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Because as economies expand and adapt to take advantage of external trade, they also become dependent on that trade. Yes, economies can continue, even when cut off from external markets, South Africa proved that. But their trade with the rest of the world was never cut off completely, as Earth's trade would be during the quarantine.
You then get the problem of the people who just give up going to work because "what's the point when we're all going to die anyway?" And why bother to pay your taxes when you might not be alive for the revenue to come after you?
I take your point, but I still think that economically as well as socially, Earth is going to be in a mess
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Demon
Because as economies expand and adapt to take advantage of external trade, they also become dependent on that trade. Yes, economies can continue, even when cut off from external markets, South Africa proved that. But their trade with the rest of the world was never cut off completely, as Earth's trade would be during the quarantine.
You then get the problem of the people who just give up going to work because "what's the point when we're all going to die anyway?" And why bother to pay your taxes when you might not be alive for the revenue to come after you?
I take your point, but I still think that economically as well as socially, Earth is going to be in a mess
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Demon
D
**DONOTDELETE**
Guest
There are still Commonwealth citizens in the Briish Armed Forces. Although their numbers are dropping rapidly.
There would be money problems with Earthforce. There may be lots of money on Earth but to pay the men it has to be taken out to the stars. Email is not sufficient. The main exports would be films, music and possibly computer programs.
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Andrew Swallow
There would be money problems with Earthforce. There may be lots of money on Earth but to pay the men it has to be taken out to the stars. Email is not sufficient. The main exports would be films, music and possibly computer programs.
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Andrew Swallow
I agree that most Interstellar trade would be in Entertainment, information and Luxuries.
Cargo Transport is so expensive that no one on Babylon 5 can afford Coffee.
That fact alone ought to be a clue to the cost of shipping.
We probably don't even want to know how much Garibaldi paid for the olive oil, butter and anchovies when he made the Baugna Cauda for his birthday.
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Yes, I like cats too.
Shall we exchange Recipes?
Cargo Transport is so expensive that no one on Babylon 5 can afford Coffee.
That fact alone ought to be a clue to the cost of shipping.
We probably don't even want to know how much Garibaldi paid for the olive oil, butter and anchovies when he made the Baugna Cauda for his birthday.
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Yes, I like cats too.
Shall we exchange Recipes?
coldsoup753
Regular
Natron, what are you doing with my picture?!
grrrr...
(just kidding...
)
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Faith Manages
[This message has been edited by coldsoup753 (edited August 28, 2001).]
(just kidding...
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Faith Manages
[This message has been edited by coldsoup753 (edited August 28, 2001).]
Joseph DeMartino
Moderator
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>after events in Call to Arms is that Earthgov was moved to Mars <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Those Earth Senators who were off-world when the Drakh struck have set-up shop on Mars temporarily, as they are the only elected Earth Alliance representatives in a position to hold face-to-face meetings with citizens of the Alliance and aliens. But this does not mean that the entire government has "moved" to Mars. (The actual government couldn't because 90% of the people in government would be trapped on Earth.) And it doesn't mean that the Mars contingent has either Constitutional or de facto power to run things as they see fit.
Even though Earth is cut off physically, communications still work just fine, thank you. So the President can continue to issue orders, commerce can continue, supplies can be brought in and the Senate can continue to meet and debate. (The off-world memembers would just have to link-in remotely, something that even Senators who are on Earth probably do routinely.)
The Senators on Mars would probably be formed into an emergency committee and given some additional authority, but I doubt the government would change radically.
Coming so soon after the Clark regime and the Telepath Crisis, the Drakh assault would probably make everyone more inclined to see that the government continued as much as possible with "business as usual" in the face of the latest crisis.
Given the continuing tension between Earth and Mars, I also wouldn't be suprised if the Senators didn't eventually rellocate their temporary headquarters to a secure military facility like the transfer point off Io, or to the Moon.
Regards,
Joe
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Joseph DeMartino
Sigh Corps
Pat Tallman Division
joseph-demartino@att.net
Those Earth Senators who were off-world when the Drakh struck have set-up shop on Mars temporarily, as they are the only elected Earth Alliance representatives in a position to hold face-to-face meetings with citizens of the Alliance and aliens. But this does not mean that the entire government has "moved" to Mars. (The actual government couldn't because 90% of the people in government would be trapped on Earth.) And it doesn't mean that the Mars contingent has either Constitutional or de facto power to run things as they see fit.
Even though Earth is cut off physically, communications still work just fine, thank you. So the President can continue to issue orders, commerce can continue, supplies can be brought in and the Senate can continue to meet and debate. (The off-world memembers would just have to link-in remotely, something that even Senators who are on Earth probably do routinely.)
The Senators on Mars would probably be formed into an emergency committee and given some additional authority, but I doubt the government would change radically.
Coming so soon after the Clark regime and the Telepath Crisis, the Drakh assault would probably make everyone more inclined to see that the government continued as much as possible with "business as usual" in the face of the latest crisis.
Given the continuing tension between Earth and Mars, I also wouldn't be suprised if the Senators didn't eventually rellocate their temporary headquarters to a secure military facility like the transfer point off Io, or to the Moon.
Regards,
Joe
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Joseph DeMartino
Sigh Corps
Pat Tallman Division
joseph-demartino@att.net
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR> commerce can continue, supplies can be brought in <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
But Earth could run out of money pretty quickly. The only exports they could provide would be information, not goods or services. The Earth economy would be in one hell of a mess pretty damn quickly.
So who would be paying for Earthforce while Earth is under quarantine?
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Demon
But Earth could run out of money pretty quickly. The only exports they could provide would be information, not goods or services. The Earth economy would be in one hell of a mess pretty damn quickly.
So who would be paying for Earthforce while Earth is under quarantine?
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Demon
Joseph DeMartino
Moderator
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>There may be lots of money on Earth but to pay the men it has to be taken out to the stars. Email is not sufficient.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Why not? Most fund transfers even today consist of digits sent across wires. Why should it be any different in 2267? It isn't like they'd need to stuff garbage bags full of banknotes and fire them off into space.
Regards,
Joe
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Joseph DeMartino aka Jody Martino
Sigh Corps
Pat Tallman Division
joseph-demartino@att.net
Why not? Most fund transfers even today consist of digits sent across wires. Why should it be any different in 2267? It isn't like they'd need to stuff garbage bags full of banknotes and fire them off into space.
Regards,
Joe
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Joseph DeMartino aka Jody Martino
Sigh Corps
Pat Tallman Division
joseph-demartino@att.net
D
**DONOTDELETE**
Guest
The problem Joe DM is that the money is all going one way. The current foreign exchange markets match the money coming in with the money going out. If more money continues to leave than enter the currency becomes 'weak' and has to devalue. Compare the dollar/pound exchange rates in 1938 and 1946. The dollar/mark rates are even worse.
The blockage has banned physical exports from Earth. Earthforce pay is now an import, since Earthforce personnel can no longer obtain supplies from Earth. Since they can not buy anything from Earth alien banks and merchants are going to be very reluctant to accept Earth credits.
In simple terms Earth is now unemployed, has no social security but wishes to keep on spending at the old rate.
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Andrew Swallow
[This message has been edited by AndrewSwallow (edited August 28, 2001).]
The blockage has banned physical exports from Earth. Earthforce pay is now an import, since Earthforce personnel can no longer obtain supplies from Earth. Since they can not buy anything from Earth alien banks and merchants are going to be very reluctant to accept Earth credits.
In simple terms Earth is now unemployed, has no social security but wishes to keep on spending at the old rate.
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Andrew Swallow
[This message has been edited by AndrewSwallow (edited August 28, 2001).]
