-
The new B5TV.COM is here. We've replaced our 16 year old software with flashy new XenForo install. Registration is open again. Password resets will work again. More info here.
Re-watching Crusade
- Thread starter GKarsEye
- Start date
Jan
Regular
Er, "No."
And your source for this "er, no' is what? Pat Tallman said what the reasons were for her non-appearance. You claim they are bulshit. Document this, please.
You may be right, and she may be wrong, but I believe the principal long before I believe the "expert."
Simple, actually. According to the SAG website, principal contracts (contracts for principal (not background) actors) are for a day, 3 days or a week. So if JMS said that:
and somebody else here reported that Pat said she'd been offered 1/6 of her prior amount, there's no conflict there at all. If a one-day contract was offered at the same rate as she'd been paid on the last season of B5 (which was on a 6-day shooting schedule), that's 1/6 of her prior amount. Whether it was clear to her or not that it was only for one day's work, who knows?
We're still waiting on your source for the information that the actress who played Allison (the character replacing Lyta) was paid for the week.
Jan
Jade Jaguar
Regular
Oops! Thanks for the correction. I really do know better.
But the SAG guidelines for "Major Role Performers" state that
Major performers being ones who
Now, we are not here to quibble about SAG rules (and there are exceptions to the rule i quoted which JMS may well have considered to apply, notably the "day performer contract." But Pat's statement at least makes sense within the SAG rules, and JMS's (which said that she was paid a fraction of her old weekly salary) makes less sense, depending on how much over the minimum she was paid in the B5 series (because daily rates are higher than the per-day rates of weekly contracts). Nothing exists regarding the three-day contract you refer to, but then the SAG ruiles i am quoting from are the current ones, not the ones in force in 1999.
I read the quote by Pat on the internet, but cannot find it just now after a cursory search. However, that is not really the point, is it, since I am not the one who summarily dismisses contrary arguments with "uh, no" am I? I could misremember what she said, or she could be wrong in either her understanding of what went on or her memory of what she was offered. That is why I specifically stated that I or she could be wrong in the post you took offnse to.
The point is that the simple dismissal of contrary argumnents with no evidence offered is plain bad manners, especially on a board like this, on which knowledgable people are known to post... even when it is done done by someone who knows a few things about B5.
From what I read(long ago),Dureena came to have powers but not technomage powers,it came from another source...The sword,i think....But not technomage,technomage is Shadow based...so,if Galen and Dureena's powers are to be different...Maybe Dureena's powers will be...vorlon maybe??
Firstly,I would like to know why everyone is saying it's Gideon's voice inside the apocolyspe box...I just wanna know
I didn't know Gideon was going to die...is he??
And the sword in the intro...that's Dureena's sword???
Are you assuming or is it for real??
Ok,let's just say that Gideon really is in the box,how would he be able to go back so long in time just to see the living Gideon and guide him through life by lying to him....the box lies,remember?
No,not exactly,any fight between Gideon and Galen would be about Galen's secret,that technomage tech is based on Shadow tech,and also because Gideon thought Galen was using him to find shadow tech and betrayed his trust,as for the apocolyspe box,I think Galen is well aware of it's existance and knows that Gideon has it,and he is soo far keeping his distance...But I don't think the apocolyspe box would be the center of their argument,perhaps the box would try to brainwash Gideon and make it worse,but,who knows??
As for Lyta in Path of Sorrows,it would have rocked..it's just too bad
And the music in Crusade,I actually quite liked it,especailly the intro,but at times the music just didn't match the situation
vacantlook
Super Moderator
jms said it was his voice:
He was at least going to be shot by a sniper according to the script for the season one finale. I'm not sure if jms has ever specifically said Gideon would die upon being shot. If he didn't die when shot though, it would have been a bit too similar to Garibaldi being shot in "Chrysalis" for my tastes.
Ok,glad we got the Gideon's voice in the box thing cleared up..
Oh Yeah!!! He was shot!!Well,then perhaps he will die,but it's an assumption not a fact!
I hope he doesn't,coz I really like Gideon...after all,we still have Galen,Galen could heal him(technomage,remember??).....
But I don't think Gideon will die,he still needs to have war with
crazy shadow tech users
vacantlook
Super Moderator
I think there's also some partial theory floating about that Gideon's death would have him eventually coming back to life because of some as of yet unmentioned property of the Apocalypse Box. I think also in this theory that that is somehow tied to why the Apocalypse Box is taking on Gideon's voice.
I don't know what the plan for the story really was though.
I don't know what the plan for the story really was though.
deaded
Regular
But I don't think Gideon will die,he still needs to have war with crazy shadow tech users
I don't think he would have died either because he is too integral an character and seems to embody all the positive and roguish charactaristics that JMS holds dear. I just can't see him dying. Of course you never know, which is why we watch (or would have watched).
---WARNING, SPOILER FOR TECHNOMAGE TRILOGY---
So how do you know he needed to have a war with shadow tech users? I mean, we all found out that the technomages got their power from shadow tech when we read the third book of the technomage trilogy, but how do we know that Gideon had a problem with this? I’m not saying you’re wrong, how would I even know. I’m just asking.
And while we're on the subject, is there any place where I can read the unfilmed scripts for Crusade? I read one once on a limited book site but have not seen any since then. Anyone have any links?
You need to have read the unfilmed scripts to answer your question. In them, Gideon finds out that the ship that destroyed the Cerberus was a merge of Shadow Tech and Earthforce technology. That gives him one hell of a reason for a war against everything made of Shadow Tech, and would have left him with some real issues with Galen, if he'd ever found out the source of Galen's power.
On the issue of the Apocalypse Box, Galen may have had his suspicions, but he didn't know it existed. I'm sure somewhere there's a comment from JMS that if Galen had known for sure about it, he'd have thrown it out of an airlock, just for starters
Then there was another comment that one other person on the Excalibur did know about the Box, but wasn't say ing anything. I always thought that was probably Matheson. There has to be a reason why Gideon's XO is telepathic. I'm sure that would have emerged later.
Damn TNT!
Oh and the issue of Dureena's sword was going to be addressed in a three part story, scripts for which were never written, and again, I believe the source of that story was JMS, but someone else will have to provide the exact quote.
Going back to the unfilmed scripts, there is no site where they are available to read, and JMS specifically asked fans to stop circulating the copies that exist.
Revenge for Cerberus alone is a good reason,hatred for shadow tech because of what happened to the crew of Cerberus can be another...after all,he made a promise 300 hundred times(watch "well of forever"),it could be a promise for revenge
Damn TNT!!!
Joseph DeMartino
Moderator
An argument can be countered by another argument, as opposed to "evidence". It all depends on the nature of tha discussion. If a disembowelled cow is found in a field and you say aliens did it I say some sick human did it, our discussion will be based on the same evidence, but we will be arguing on our interpretations of that evidence and our belief in the likelihood that intellgent lifeforms would spend considerable time, energy and money crossing lightyears of space to torment livestock. To dismiss an argument out of hand without a reply in the form of either factual refutation or counter-argument would be wrong, but I didn't do that.
Grumbler asserts that "actors are paid by the week"
I say, "Er, no" and proceed to explain - in a fair amount of detail considering that I'm working from memory - how actors are paide, based on my knowledge of the various SAG contracts from the past few years. Gee, I forgot to cite my source. Since Grumbler's only cited source was his own recollection of a Pat Tallman post he couldn't find (and presumably misremembered since the assertion he puts in her mouth doesn't match the facts) I think you can put the tar and feathers down.
Especially given the Grumble subsequently dug up a copy of a SAG contract and posted a quotation that proves I was right in the first place. Actors are not "paid by the week".
1) A one page scene does not a "major role" make.
2) It is only a "major role", "gues star" or "special guest star" part if that is what is [ii]negotiated[/i]. If a part is a "major role" because of screen time then the actor is already going to be paid for multiple days, because the actor will have to be on set that long to film the episode. So it looks like Pat wanted special billing and extra money for filming what she knew was going to be a cameo. WB didn't have the money in the budget and the deal wasn't made.
3) Was the material you quoted from the network broadcast section of the contract, the syndication section, or the basic cable one? Or do the same definitons apply to all. I'm curious because they differ in so many other areas and I've only seen summaries of the current contract, not the full text.
Regards,
Joe
KoshN
Super Moderator
I think that people are making far too much of this, Gideon having a problem with Galen because Galen was (yes, past tense) partially Shadowtech (incorporated in the Technomage's bodies). The real "shadowtech" is the programming, and Galen's dealt with it by early 2261, and hence before the start of Crusade. Gideon would see Galen as one hell of an ally against all remaining shadowtech, including the shadow programming in all other Technomages' tech.
