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Real-life President Clark

GKarsEye

GKarsEye

Regular
When I first started watching B5, President Clark kind of reminded me of Slobadan Milosevich. Reading about Milosevich's UN trial often reinforces that comparison.
http://www.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/europe/02/19/milosevic/index.html

Note he was accused of employing a "scorched earth" policy.

Both men tried to control the media (and were successful temporarily), both played up the race card to push their agendas, and both were bald.

I wonder if JMS had Milosevich in mind when creating the character of President Clark.

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"You do not make history. You can only hope to survive it."
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GKarsEye:

Both men tried to control the media (and were successful temporarily), both played up the race card to push their agendas, and both were bald.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Um, Milosevic is not exactly bald....he might be lacking in front a bit, but he has quite a bit of hair...

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If I tell you my name is Lorien, what good is that?

(Whatever happened to Mr. Garibaldi?)
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Irmo:
Um, Milosevic is not exactly bald....he might be lacking in front a bit, but he has quite a bit of hair...

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I know, I just wanted a funny way to end the sentence.

Picky, picky, picky...


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"You do not make history. You can only hope to survive it."
 
Yeah, from what I have heard abot Milosevic, I think comparing him to Clark really isn't that far off.

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Dulann: You don't solve your problems by hitting them.
David Martel: Yeah, well, it made me feel better.
 
I really dont know the timeframes involved in all of this. Remember B5 aired in early to mid 90s, but the parallels are there. JMS has done a great job at basing some of his characters on real, historical, figures. He has done so on the belief that history, and humanity WILL repeat itself, and we will keep making some of the same mistakes over and over again until we finally get things right.

I consider the Nightwatch compairson to Senator McCarthy in the 50s and his witch-hunt of the 'Communists' residing in the United States, and his 'lists' of known American Citizens who were supposedly pro-communism.

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'I don't believe in the no-win scenario' - JTK
 
Since I watched B5 in reruns, I don't know when what aired. The big Bosnian conflict was around '95. The Kosovo thing happened after the show was over, I think.

Nightwatch is definitely McCarthy-ish, with shades of Stalinism (ironic, no?).

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"You do not make history. You can only hope to survive it."
 
The conflict in the Balkans started about the same time as the Gulf crisis (1990), with Croatia and Slovenia(?) splitting from Yugoslavia causing a whole lot of unrest in the region. Bosnia-Herzigovena(sp?) followed not long after.

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"Wild Dog! Why's it taking you so long to get ridda them?"
--
yan@ranger.b5lr.com
 
Yes, that's true.

Ok, so there were three major Balkan conflicts in the 90s. When exactly was B5 on the air the first time?

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"You do not make history. You can only hope to survive it."
 
Perhaps we should look closer to home for parallels to EarthGov and the treatment of so called <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>alien races<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> amongst us.

I for one am rather shocked at how easily we are manipulated by the media and can be turned against one another, undermining the very values we fight for.

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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>I will never stop hoping that you retreat from the road that you're walking. I will never stop searching for a means to turn you away from it. And I will never stop being your friend...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> - Vir
 
if you look at some of the interviews from Mira Furlan(incase you don't know she's from yugoslavia), she was amazed at the parrales to her home county and Babylon. She once called jms a wicth.
laugh.gif


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"I don't want anyone's pity. I don't need anybody's pity. All I know is that I am tired of being controlled. Controlled by others, by fear, by my past, by what everybody else expects of me and it's enough." -Garibaldi-

[This message has been edited by *Sigh* (edited February 19, 2002).]
 
In case anyone is interested, here is the website to Mira Furlan's letter:Mira Furlan's Letter

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"The Bible is a book: it is a good book, but is is not the only book" - Inherit the Wind

"I do not believe that the same God who
has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use."—Galileo

hypatia@b5fan.b5lr.com
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Nukemall:
'The Gathering' aired in 1993 according to the IMDb.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

So this means that by the time they were getting into Clark's dirty dealings, it was 1994-1995. By this time, the first Balkan war of the decade was over and the second was starting. It's also the time when Milosevic was becoming more of a "personality."

This means it is at least possible that JMS was using him as some sort of influence for Clark. Of course, Clark could easily have been created from tyrants of the past.

I was just struck by some of the similarities between them, especially after reading up on the trial. Perhaps it's one of those cliche "life imitating art" things.

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"You do not make history. You can only hope to survive it."
 
Sadly, there are many president Clarks in real life. When looking well enough, you can draw numerous historical parallels.

1. Germany when the Nazis rose to power. Examples: things related to Nightwatch, Clark and William Edgars.

2. Cold War between the US and USSR. Ideological conflict, manipulation, fighting by proxy. The possibility of mutual destruction. Example: the conflict between Shadows and Vorlons.

3. Countless instances of ethnic hatred being exploited to create imaginary borders. Between humans and aliens, mundanes and telepaths, warrior and religious caste. Examples: the Minbari civil war, the Earth civil war, pretty much everything related to Psi-Corps.

4. Can individuals fight the system? Is the system unbeatable, or just as weak as its weakest link? Parallels with most totalitarian systems. How can you defeat them from inside?

---------

All of these questions have one common denominator. Do our decisions matter? Can one person change the universe? Should we consider who we are? What we want? Why we exist?

And in this matter, JMS seems to suggest that we should ask, doubt and decide. Because every decision matters, and every person can change the universe. The future is what we make it become. If we resign, others will decide for us.

[This message has been edited by Lennier (edited February 19, 2002).]
 
When life starts imitating Babylon 5, we are all in trouble.
crazy.gif


Awhile ago someone (I think it might have been Kribu) pointed out to me that the USA is not always 100% welcome when it sets up its military bases in other countries. I had never considered this before, for the most part. Very "Shadowlike" or "Vorlonlike" though, isn't it?

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"The Bible is a book: it is a good book, but is is not the only book" - Inherit the Wind

"I do not believe that the same God who
has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use."—Galileo

hypatia@b5fan.b5lr.com
 
I would think, Hypatia, that 100% support rarely exists. It is a matter of quantity.

If a particular instance is deemed necessary by those involved, supported by enough people... then I would deem it justified.

But there can be no rule. Such matters should be observed on individual basis. What may sometimes seem Vorlon-like may at other times be quite beneficial. Hence I would not form a general opinion is such matters. I would examine them case-by-case.

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"We are the universe, trying to figure itself out.
Unfortunately we as software lack any coherent documentation."
-- Delenn

[This message has been edited by Lennier (edited February 20, 2002).]
 
Never mind Yugoslav Ex-Presidents.

We have our Own president starting to sound a Lot like Clarke right now.

Dubya has managed to piss off almost every other govt in the world during the last few days.
He's set international relations back 20 years and almost eliminated the unity the Terrorists brought to the free world.

The Arrogance coming out of Washinton lately is unbelievable.

Of course, if he can get someone pissed off enough to Attack us again, maybe they think people will stop talking about EnRon...

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Do not ascribe your own motivations to others:
At best, it will break your heart.
At worst, it will get you dead."
 
Hypatia, I posted a long post with a list of countries where we had military bases, and weren't wanted, or were kicked out. Few want an 800 lb gorilla in their living room.

I agree with Bakana about w's arrogance. Painting Iran as the axis of evil at a time when the people, through elections, are trying to get control of their country from the Mullahs, and liberalize it, was the dumbest thing he's done yet. It pulled the rug right out from under them.

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You're speaking treason! Olivia De Havilland as Maid Marian
Fluently! Errol Flynn as Robin Hood
You're talking treason! Olivia De Havilland as Arabella Bishop
I trust I'm not obscure. Errol Flynn as Dr. Peter Blood

Pallindromes of the month: Snug was I, ere I saw guns.
Doom an evil deed, liven a mood.
 
when i was taking my war class, and living outside of the US,

not too many countries do like the US. most of europe has this attitude of "DAMN YANKS" simply because we interfer with their business.

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Remember folks, you to can be another victim! contributed by DW.:)
 
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