</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
I very much doubt Kosh was the leader of the Vorlons. Nobody sends their leader out to be an ambassodor. The purpose of an ambassor is to be a contact between seperate civlizations. This is not the purpose of a leader
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Right. That would be like the Minbari sending a member of the Grey Council to serve as ambassador, or the Narns sending a member of the K'ar'i. Oh, wait a second... /forums/images/icons/smile.gif
Actually I agree with Andrew, and not only because I don't think the Vorlons
had a single leader. I'm not even sure the Vorlons had a
government as we'd understand it. They had something called the High Command, which seemed to call the shots. But whatever they had, I don't think either Kosh or Ulkesh headed it.
</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
Kosh clearly had some respect for Valen, even a thousand years later, enough to greet a person who looked like Sinclair without scanning him first, nearly getting assassinated in the process ("Gathering").
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Except that Kosh
doesn't greet the assassin. He
thinks, "Entil'Zha Valen" to
himself. Lyta, during her scan, is hearing Kosh's thoughts, not anything he said aloud. (Check the DVD. The musical tone of his translator is not heard before that line, and there is a slight echo to the sound, an indication that this is a "thought balloon")
</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
After the Vorlons break the "not attack directly" rule with the Shadows, the Shadows kill Kosh. Conclusion: Kosh is important.
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The mere fact that he is on B5 and helping to direct the war makes him important (and the Shadows are certainly aware of his role.) That doesn't necessarily mean he is among the
most important Vorlons. Actually what he mostly was was
available. He was a Vorlon not on their homeworld, and not out in space aboard one of their extremely powerful ships. He was a target they could
get to. Also he was the one directly responsible for violating the rules of engagement, so he was the logical target for revenge. Don't forget, the Shadows do
not respond to the Vorlon provocation by abandoning the rules themselves and switching to direct flee-to-fleet engagements. Instead their response is proportional and limited. They exact a price for what the Vorlons did, then they go back to business as usual.
Kosh could have fled B5, after all, in which case the Shadows would have sought revenge by taking out another target of opportunity.
This is developing into an interesting conversation. One thing that JMS said that struck me is that Kosh had, in a sense, "gone native". I can't find the quote, but it is an important part of his character. He came to view the Younger Races in a way that was very different than any other Vorlon - and Sheridan, not Sinclair or Valen, was the real catalyst for his change of heart. I'm going to limit my comments to that for the time being. I want to see how this discussion continues. In the meantime, here are some JMS quotes that touch on the issues raised here that I
was able to find. Some of them settle points raised above, others will probably provoke
new questions:
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Tom Knudsen <72347.1626@compuserve.com> asks:
> Since Kosh and Ulkesh seem to have the authority to dictate Vorlon policy from what you've said, can we assume that they were near the top of the Vorlon heirarchy (whatever THAT may be)? <
It's not a hierarchy as you or I would understand it... and the weird thing is, though I kinda know how it functions, I'll be damned if I can figure out how to explain it in words.
jms
> {original post unavailable} <
They're not that far apart in age, but yes, Kosh would be a bit older
jms
> 5. Besides being extremely old, was Kosh an average Vorlon or particularly special in terms of strength, skill, or status? No other ambassador on the station has demonstrated the clout back home to sortie an entire fleet at a moments notice. Delenn and Londo have only called on forces from a particular faction in their polities. <
He was certainly well regarded... one of the older of the vorlons.
jms
And yes, Kosh and Ulkesh were contemporaries, though Ulkesh was the more military of the two, very isolationist, while Kosh was the curious one, interested in the younger races, and more willing to extend himself (with sometimes unfortunate results). Kosh always worried what Ulkesh would do without his moderating presence... and ultimately had to be the one to take him down to allow the younger races to step forward.
jms
No, I wouldn't call them friends. They had a certain respect for one another, but Ulkesh always thought Kosh was soft, and Kosh always worried that Ulkesh was dangerous. In their own ways, both were right.
jms
Certainly he came to care about us more than the vorlons intended.
jms
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And one more that seems to sum up his whole position on the subject. /forums/images/icons/smile.gif
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There's a lot more to be said of the story of Kosh, and the Vorlons in general... and part of me says explain it later... and another part says that if you explain mysteries too much, it destroys them.
jms
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Regards,
Joe
