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'Revenge of the Sith' reviews (Spoilers)
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Jade Jaguar
Regular
Re: \'Revenge of the Sith\' reviews (Spoilers)
I would say infatuated with Padme. He doesn't really understand her, or know her feelings, but he wants her. He is just a big, immature, whiny, spoiled kid, who gets mad when he doesn't get his own way. He had no real direction of his own, but was always looking to others for it, so, when he realized the wrong he had done with Windu, he latched on to Palpatine, as his only alternative. When I first saw the OT, I took Vader to be his own man, but now I see that even then, he was really the Emperor's puppet.
I would say infatuated with Padme. He doesn't really understand her, or know her feelings, but he wants her. He is just a big, immature, whiny, spoiled kid, who gets mad when he doesn't get his own way. He had no real direction of his own, but was always looking to others for it, so, when he realized the wrong he had done with Windu, he latched on to Palpatine, as his only alternative. When I first saw the OT, I took Vader to be his own man, but now I see that even then, he was really the Emperor's puppet.
KoshFan
Regular
Re: \'Revenge of the Sith\' reviews (Spoilers)
I'd say that "infatuated" is an excellent assessment. I only saw Ep II twice, in the same week. I happened to be infatuated myself at the time (surprise surprise), and as such I felt the love dialogue was fine. Now, of course, being wiser, I see the error there.
But here's the deal. I'm not convinced George Lucas really understands love, considering his romantic history. He understands the bonds of parent and child, but I'm not sure about couples. So it could be that Lucas cleverly wrote Anakin to be infatuated rather than in love, or it could be that Lucas wrote what he actually thought to be love -- but he was mistaken.
I'd say that "infatuated" is an excellent assessment. I only saw Ep II twice, in the same week. I happened to be infatuated myself at the time (surprise surprise), and as such I felt the love dialogue was fine. Now, of course, being wiser, I see the error there.
But here's the deal. I'm not convinced George Lucas really understands love, considering his romantic history. He understands the bonds of parent and child, but I'm not sure about couples. So it could be that Lucas cleverly wrote Anakin to be infatuated rather than in love, or it could be that Lucas wrote what he actually thought to be love -- but he was mistaken.
GKarsEye
Regular
Re: \'Revenge of the Sith\' reviews (Spoilers)
This is an excellent assessment, and I don't even know Lucas' romantic history (and don't care, as I believe art and entertainment should stand on its own without having to know anything about the creator(s)).
If the guy was really trying to make them in love, then he obviously doesn't know what that means. Ok, I'm not expecting a nuance on the level of a Ingmar Bergman or even a Woody Allen film, but still.
I read something that helps explain the turn-to-evil thing a bit more for those who aren't comfortable with how it comes off on screen- many people are trying to understand the turn from a purely human motivation perspective. But they are not taking into account the nature of the dark side of the Force (ie, magic). So I guess we're not supposed to really understand. This actually makes sense, but it sure does take away from the human element of the story and returns Star Wars to what most people see it as- a wiz-band action adventure eye candy spectacular.
By the way, am I the only one bothered by the whole Anakin created by Sith lords thing? That he was destined to be evil? No?
This is an excellent assessment, and I don't even know Lucas' romantic history (and don't care, as I believe art and entertainment should stand on its own without having to know anything about the creator(s)).
If the guy was really trying to make them in love, then he obviously doesn't know what that means. Ok, I'm not expecting a nuance on the level of a Ingmar Bergman or even a Woody Allen film, but still.
I read something that helps explain the turn-to-evil thing a bit more for those who aren't comfortable with how it comes off on screen- many people are trying to understand the turn from a purely human motivation perspective. But they are not taking into account the nature of the dark side of the Force (ie, magic). So I guess we're not supposed to really understand. This actually makes sense, but it sure does take away from the human element of the story and returns Star Wars to what most people see it as- a wiz-band action adventure eye candy spectacular.
By the way, am I the only one bothered by the whole Anakin created by Sith lords thing? That he was destined to be evil? No?
admiraldave
Regular
Re: \'Revenge of the Sith\' reviews (Spoilers)
I was bothered by the introduction of the fucking midichlorians in the first place. And I don't know if that implies that he was "destined for evil", but that the Sith hoped to turn the prophecy against the Jedi. Yes, it's semantics, but it seems more like opportunism than "fate".
I was bothered by the introduction of the fucking midichlorians in the first place. And I don't know if that implies that he was "destined for evil", but that the Sith hoped to turn the prophecy against the Jedi. Yes, it's semantics, but it seems more like opportunism than "fate".
GKarsEye
Regular
Re: \'Revenge of the Sith\' reviews (Spoilers)
Well if you remove prophecies, and "chosen one' and Plagius creating Anakin, then all you're left with is opportunism- which would be so cool! The simplest explanation for evil is the best- Anakin was this annoyed putzy little Jedi with great power and Palpatine just took advantage of him and twisted him. Perfect evil and simple and great.
Well if you remove prophecies, and "chosen one' and Plagius creating Anakin, then all you're left with is opportunism- which would be so cool! The simplest explanation for evil is the best- Anakin was this annoyed putzy little Jedi with great power and Palpatine just took advantage of him and twisted him. Perfect evil and simple and great.
Re: \'Revenge of the Sith\' reviews (Spoilers)
Was Anakin born to be evil?
I don't think so. His biggest problem was that while he had great abilities, he did not have the maturity to handle them. It was like they said in Spiderman - "with great power comes great responsibility." But Anakin, like in the Queen song, it was "I want it all - and I want it now! " He was not prepared to wait.
His flaws were that he was too impatient and too sure of himself.
But he certainly wasn't evil at the start. The little boy we see in the first film is a very normal kid who is upset at being seperated from his mother - the only close bond that he has.
I always wondered why they didn't just find a way to smuggle his mother off the planet. She was a slave, being held against her will - she had no obligation to her master. Why didn't she just sneak away with them?
Was Anakin born to be evil?
I don't think so. His biggest problem was that while he had great abilities, he did not have the maturity to handle them. It was like they said in Spiderman - "with great power comes great responsibility." But Anakin, like in the Queen song, it was "I want it all - and I want it now! " He was not prepared to wait.
His flaws were that he was too impatient and too sure of himself.
But he certainly wasn't evil at the start. The little boy we see in the first film is a very normal kid who is upset at being seperated from his mother - the only close bond that he has.
I always wondered why they didn't just find a way to smuggle his mother off the planet. She was a slave, being held against her will - she had no obligation to her master. Why didn't she just sneak away with them?
vacantlook
Super Moderator
Re: \'Revenge of the Sith\' reviews (Spoilers)
Because slaves have a device planted inside of them, that if they do anything like that, then they're blown up.
Because slaves have a device planted inside of them, that if they do anything like that, then they're blown up.
Jade Jaguar
Regular
Re: \'Revenge of the Sith\' reviews (Spoilers)
But surely a Jedi could have removed it, or forced the owner to remove it. I think leaving mom as a slave WAS rather dumb, but was done because to do otherwise would have screwed up the plot.
But surely a Jedi could have removed it, or forced the owner to remove it. I think leaving mom as a slave WAS rather dumb, but was done because to do otherwise would have screwed up the plot.
vacantlook
Super Moderator
Re: \'Revenge of the Sith\' reviews (Spoilers)
Apparently, it was a well hidden device since little Anakin said he was working on building a device to locate his.
But how would you recommend that a Jedi force Watto to remove it from Shmi? (Ignoring for a moment that a Jedi forcing Watto to do it might go against what a Jedi would be allowed to do.)
Apparently, it was a well hidden device since little Anakin said he was working on building a device to locate his.
But how would you recommend that a Jedi force Watto to remove it from Shmi? (Ignoring for a moment that a Jedi forcing Watto to do it might go against what a Jedi would be allowed to do.)
GKarsEye
Regular
Re: \'Revenge of the Sith\' reviews (Spoilers)
The same way Obi Wan forced the Stormtroopers to allow him and Luke and the droids into that airport/bar thingy in the original Star Wars ("these aren't the droids you're looking for"). And if that doesn't work- well, they're freakin' Jedi, if they can concoct a scheme to unkidnap the chancellor they can surely defeat a lowly shady businessman.
Well he was certainly "created" to be so.
The same way Obi Wan forced the Stormtroopers to allow him and Luke and the droids into that airport/bar thingy in the original Star Wars ("these aren't the droids you're looking for"). And if that doesn't work- well, they're freakin' Jedi, if they can concoct a scheme to unkidnap the chancellor they can surely defeat a lowly shady businessman.
Well he was certainly "created" to be so.
MeadDrinker
Regular
Re: \'Revenge of the Sith\' reviews (Spoilers)
They tried the mind trick thingy in the Phantom Opera... didn't work on that flying mini-elephant. Otherwise I guess morals or something were in place, help one gotta help 'em all. I think they should have rescued her, bought her etc but I guess that would of ruined the plot!
They tried the mind trick thingy in the Phantom Opera... didn't work on that flying mini-elephant. Otherwise I guess morals or something were in place, help one gotta help 'em all. I think they should have rescued her, bought her etc but I guess that would of ruined the plot!
GaribaldisHair
Regular
Re: \'Revenge of the Sith\' reviews (Spoilers)
I'd still like to know how the son of a slave woman manages to get his hands on the time and resources to build himself not only a kick-ass pod racer, but also his own personal protocol droid.
And why the hell did he build C3PO to the exact same design/specs of the factories that were churning them out by the truckload?
I realise these aren't important plot points, but I'm a pedantic kind of guy ...
I'd still like to know how the son of a slave woman manages to get his hands on the time and resources to build himself not only a kick-ass pod racer, but also his own personal protocol droid.
And why the hell did he build C3PO to the exact same design/specs of the factories that were churning them out by the truckload?
I realise these aren't important plot points, but I'm a pedantic kind of guy ...
PillowRock
Regular
Re: \'Revenge of the Sith\' reviews (Spoilers)
And the answer to why he would build it on the same frame and with the same outer chassis as the mass produced ones is because those were the components that were readily available. It's not like he had elaborate metal forging or stamping facility at his fingertips.
When you get right down to it, we only know that the outer chassis looks like all of the other ones.
And the answer to why he would build it on the same frame and with the same outer chassis as the mass produced ones is because those were the components that were readily available. It's not like he had elaborate metal forging or stamping facility at his fingertips.
A_M_Swallow
Regular
Re: \'Revenge of the Sith\' reviews (Spoilers)
When they got home they could have purchased her mail order. She is owned by a business alien who is the wrong shape to have sex with her; so pay twice what she is worth plus transport. Goods to be alive and healthy.
When they got home they could have purchased her mail order. She is owned by a business alien who is the wrong shape to have sex with her; so pay twice what she is worth plus transport. Goods to be alive and healthy.
vacantlook
Super Moderator
Re: \'Revenge of the Sith\' reviews (Spoilers)
It won't work.
Watto: Republic Credits!? Republic Credits are no good out here, I need something more real.
Qui-Gon: I don't have anything else. (raising his hand) But credits will do fine.
Watto: No they won't.
Qui-Gon: (waves his hand again) Credits will do fine.
Watto: No, they won't. What? You think you some kind of Jedi, waving your hand around like that? I'm a Toydarian: mindtricks don't work on me, only money.
It won't work.
Watto: Republic Credits!? Republic Credits are no good out here, I need something more real.
Qui-Gon: I don't have anything else. (raising his hand) But credits will do fine.
Watto: No they won't.
Qui-Gon: (waves his hand again) Credits will do fine.
Watto: No, they won't. What? You think you some kind of Jedi, waving your hand around like that? I'm a Toydarian: mindtricks don't work on me, only money.
vacantlook
Super Moderator
Re: \'Revenge of the Sith\' reviews (Spoilers)
He works in a junk shop, it doesn't seem a far stretch to me to think that he collects parts every now and then. Or that some local people who know him give him parts directly out of knowing of his hobby of building things.
Why the hell does anyone build anything on their own? Because they like personal projects. Technogeeks are all the time building their own computers from parts instead of buying them premade from one of the companies that churn them out by the truckload.
He works in a junk shop, it doesn't seem a far stretch to me to think that he collects parts every now and then. Or that some local people who know him give him parts directly out of knowing of his hobby of building things.
Why the hell does anyone build anything on their own? Because they like personal projects. Technogeeks are all the time building their own computers from parts instead of buying them premade from one of the companies that churn them out by the truckload.
GKarsEye
Regular
Re: \'Revenge of the Sith\' reviews (Spoilers)
Well I for one don't have a problem with him being into building things. I just think it's a lame story device to have it be C3PO.
Also, it didn't pay off. I was actually thinking they might end up showing Anakin building his own life-support suit, designing it to look intimidating looking on purpose. And then everyone who saw Phantom Menace would remember that he was always into building things and we'd have a nice symmetry.
Well I for one don't have a problem with him being into building things. I just think it's a lame story device to have it be C3PO.
Also, it didn't pay off. I was actually thinking they might end up showing Anakin building his own life-support suit, designing it to look intimidating looking on purpose. And then everyone who saw Phantom Menace would remember that he was always into building things and we'd have a nice symmetry.
Jonny_Fever
Regular
Re: \'Revenge of the Sith\' reviews (Spoilers)
Anakin building things was one plot point that just never carried through. I guess Lucas couldnt figure out how else to get 3PO and R2 into the story otherwise. How awsome would that have been though, to show Anakin, with various mechanical parts, healed enough to build his own suit. Just bits and pieces at first, then at the end, the final assembly. The entire healing and putting on of the Vader suit was IMHO way to fast. If you compare the speed of his healing to the fact that when Luke was almost frozen and near death in ESB, he was in the bacta tank (i think thats what it was called) for a long time.
Anakin building things was one plot point that just never carried through. I guess Lucas couldnt figure out how else to get 3PO and R2 into the story otherwise. How awsome would that have been though, to show Anakin, with various mechanical parts, healed enough to build his own suit. Just bits and pieces at first, then at the end, the final assembly. The entire healing and putting on of the Vader suit was IMHO way to fast. If you compare the speed of his healing to the fact that when Luke was almost frozen and near death in ESB, he was in the bacta tank (i think thats what it was called) for a long time.
