'Revenge of the Sith' reviews (Spoilers)

[vacantlook]

Re: \'Revenge of the Sith\' reviews (Spoilers)

A big stinking deal...yet...it never goes anywhere.

It went plenty of places. The REASON Jedi aren't allowed to have such relationships is because they're not to form attachments as it would get in the way with them being selfless defenders of peace in the galaxy. Anakin's being the age he was when he was brought to the Council, and his subsequent well-developed ability to form attachments, is what made the Council apprehensive about training him as a Jedi in the first place. And Anakin's fall to the darkside was born from his having formed attachments -- to his mother and to Padmé -- and the fear of losing them that that attachment spurred in him.

 

[GKarsEye]

Re: \'Revenge of the Sith\' reviews (Spoilers)

I noticed the Falcon on the first viewing, although I thought for sure that it wasn't the Falcon, what with it being such a huge galaxy and all.

This is a universe where the same two droids seem to be everywhere important at every moment in history for two generations.

When he found out Luke was his son, he had to have realized that the Emporer lied to him about Padme being killed by him. How did that reflect?

He already hated his master by that time. But he was not powerful enough to do anything about it. By that time, he probably accepted that lying and treachery is part of the game.

People say Annakin turned to the darkside too easily but at least there was some motivation given. I never got what was supposed to be so tempting about the Emperor's offer to Luke in Jedi. He can't offer to let the rebellion win, he can't really offer to save Luke's friends, he never really demonstrated new powers he could achieve until after Luke made his decision, there was obviously no dental plan, and he never even offered to bring some non-sister chicks around. Not even a, "Come to the dark side, we've got better pastries." Given that I'm amazed Palpatine even offered to keep Anniken's wife alive as incentive.

The Emperor was not trying to make Luke become his apprentice right away. The first step was to replace Luke's lovy-dovy redemption shit with hate and anger. He was not expecting Luke to immediately follow him per say yet, but just wanted to tempt him with the darkside. Note that when he had Anakin kill his old apprentice, it also wasn't to right away convert him, it was just to get the dark side juices flowing. Then once Luke turns to the dark side, he would have to seek guidance, and the only person who would be able to provide that would be the Emperor. The difference is that he stated his goal of eventual conversion so bluntly- you could say he was just over confident because he had already converted his last apprentice (and who knows how many more) that way.

FreeBaGel, you were touching upon some of my reasons for not liking how Anakin's turn was played out- it's not the pace, but the Dark Side leaves room for a lot of serious, nasty shit to be played out psychologically and emotionally, and instead they went with the mommy/girlfriend angle. I think it's just one of those intangible things- you can point to this scene or that scene and say, "well look, they did include this or that" but I just didn't feel it.

By the way- a quasi-religious order of celibate mystics? I wonder how many cases of pedophilia come up with the Jedi.

 

[vacantlook]

Re: \'Revenge of the Sith\' reviews (Spoilers)

I wonder though: were they celebate? There was a ban on forming relationships and getting married and the like, but what about just having emotionless sex?

 

[GKarsEye]

Re: \'Revenge of the Sith\' reviews (Spoilers)

I wonder though: were they celebate? There was a ban on forming relationships and getting married and the like, but what about just having emotionless sex?

Well, I dunno, but I couldn't resist making the joke

 

[Jade Jaguar]

Re: \'Revenge of the Sith\' reviews (Spoilers)

The Jedi making an issue out of his relationship with Padme could have been....no not could have been..shoulve have been brought up. That at least would have given him some real motivation to be angry.

I agree. If the Jedi Council had found out, and ordered him to renounce Padme, or leave the Jedi, or punished him somehow, that would have been a much better shove towards the Dark Side than Sidious saying that maybe he and Ani together could somehow figure out how to save Padme in the short time before she was to deliver, if only Ani would go over... Ani was such an easily offended and pouty guy, that would have been a much more realistic motivation, IMO.

 

[GaribaldisHair]

Re: \'Revenge of the Sith\' reviews (Spoilers)

GaribaldisHair :

Wasn't meant to stand up to any lasting scrutiny... I was leaning towards the opposite philosophies similarity rather than a direct comparison as if they were stood side by side.

I s'pose I should be more careful with my posts - especially when there are types from Hull around!

Just call me Mr Pedantic!



You mean there are people out there who actually know where Hull is? Cool.

I think you can draw parallels betwenn many of the things in B5 with other literary creations (if you can call SW that1) ... as you can with most things.
That was just what came to mind when I read your post - and to an extent it was a back-handed attempt to make that point, rather than a genuine "hey look ... the Rangers are the Jedi" argument.

Very difficult to come up with something completely original, that hasn't been done before. It's how you use it that is more important.

 

[MeadDrinker]

Re: \'Revenge of the Sith\' reviews (Spoilers)

Agreed. As I recall, there are apparently only 20-30 film plots when you take them right down to the bones of the story.

I've a friend from Hull, he's in the Navy... can drink like a fish!

 

[admiraldave]

Re: \'Revenge of the Sith\' reviews (Spoilers)

I just read a good article on ROTS, and thought I'd share it here, because it has some good points about Anakin's fall, and why it's messed up. The problem, according to the author, is that there are two reasons given for Anakin's turn to the Dark Side, and they work at cross-purposes, conflicting with each other.

 

[KoshFan]

Re: \'Revenge of the Sith\' reviews (Spoilers)

That article's a very good write-up and makes a ton of sense.

 

[vacantlook]

Re: \'Revenge of the Sith\' reviews (Spoilers)

Congratulations on getting past the first page; I couldn't as it too much of it seemed like whining drivel when I tried to read it.

 

[GKarsEye]

Re: \'Revenge of the Sith\' reviews (Spoilers)

That description of Windu's death scene accurately explains my problems with it.

 

[KoshFan]

Re: \'Revenge of the Sith\' reviews (Spoilers)

Nah, it's a bit of a fanboy's complaint, but it's pretty perceptive and well-written.

 

[vacantlook]

Re: \'Revenge of the Sith\' reviews (Spoilers)

Maybe the writing got considerably better after page one, but the introduction is crap and full of whine.

 

[Fas]

Re: \'Revenge of the Sith\' reviews (Spoilers)

Then skip it. I did...

The guy towards the end of the article says what i've been saying all along, that these movies' strength is in the visuals.

 

[GKarsEye]

Re: \'Revenge of the Sith\' reviews (Spoilers)

Yeah, I also agree with him on how the helmet scene at the end is perfect.

 

[admiraldave]

Re: \'Revenge of the Sith\' reviews (Spoilers)

Just feel I ought to point out that the author is female.

 

[GKarsEye]

Re: \'Revenge of the Sith\' reviews (Spoilers)

Saw it again last night. Planned on working late, but nothing was working and I was angry so I said "fuck it" and went to see Star Wars at a beautiful theater in midtown Manhattan with a DLP screen and a bit of an old-timey design (curtains, etc). Pretty cool.

I went alone so this time I wasn't feeling bad that my girlfriend was bored or whatever. I also went with the express intent on focusing on Anakin Skywalker, and so that part played a lot better because I ignored the many MANY awkward, stupid moments of dialogue and action.

The tragic hero fall of Skywalker story is a great one, if not executed perfectly, but still good. I realised the weaknesses of the rest of the film made this part of it, the central core of the whole thing, feel weak. Just the way the film flows is herk-jerky and mechanical and ugly, and so by the time they start a crucial Anakin moment I'm already off-guard. But on a second viewing I knew when the bad moments were coming so I didn't care this time, I just was anxious to get past them.

I did misremember what Palpatine told Anakin about Plagius' life-creating/extending abilities. He said he could create life and "even" extend it, which Anakin took to mean "saving people from death" and Palpatine encouraged that. So certainly Plagius had the ability to "create" Anakin, making that more plausible.

Still, I gotta say I hate that plot element. What good does it serve? How does it make Anakin more sympathetic or tragic? Actually, it makes him less tragic because, be having been created by a Sith lord, you could say that becoming evil was truly fulfilling his destiny, wereas a truly tragic hero would have the potential to be great, and- as Obi Wan thought- was "supposed" to have done good.

So I can accept Plagius creating Anakin, but not Palpatine. The idea of him being an opportunist who corrupts Annakin after his discovery is much better.

Anakin's actual conversion plays out much better on a second viewing and I was able to convince myself that the scene with Windu's death and Vader's naming and pledge does make sense. How? Dig- Anakin was never really in love with Padme.

 

[Quagmire]

Re: \'Revenge of the Sith\' reviews (Spoilers)

He never really listens to what she says, what her beliefs are. Like many of us he just smiles and nods or changes the subject so as to not upset her and ruin his chance of nooky. Probably explains why he couldn't understand her problem with kiddy slaughter.

 

[GKarsEye]

Re: \'Revenge of the Sith\' reviews (Spoilers)

He never really listens to what she says, what her beliefs are. Like many of us he just smiles and nods or changes the subject so as to not upset her and ruin his chance of nooky. Probably explains why he couldn't understand her problem with kiddy slaughter.

Yes, because he treats her like a posession, a pet. To truly love someone you have to embrace him/her as a person for who they are, what they think and feel. He feared her dying not because someone he "loves" would suffer but because he would lose his pet and it's not "fair."

Question: why is it called the "opera" scene if no one was singing?

New beef: Yoda vs Emperor. They were evenly matched. Why did Yoda just leave?

 

[MeadDrinker]

Re: \'Revenge of the Sith\' reviews (Spoilers)

Weren't guards starting to show up? I'm sure enough could distract Yoda enough for the Emperor to make him a toasted little green kebab. And there weren't going to be any reinforcements for him at that point.

As I recall he fell rather a long way too, away from the Emperor.