'Revenge of the Sith' reviews (Spoilers)

[vacantlook]

Re: \'Revenge of the Sith\' reviews (Spoilers)

Perhaps the coughing is explained in the Clone Wars series?

My assumption as to why Grievous was coughing is that at the end of Clone Wars when he abducts Palpatine, Windu uses the Force to crush some of Grievous's chest in trying prevent the abduction.

I also saw the coughing as just another piece of the puzzle, for lack of a better term, to alert the viewer that Grievous isn't a droid but has actual biological workings too.

 

[Quagmire]

Re: \'Revenge of the Sith\' reviews (Spoilers)

Yes in the last Clone Wars ep Grievious gets overconfident after doing away with a couple of lesser Jedi and actually turns to confront Windu(against earlier advice) and gets his chest caved in. The first series is out on dvd and you can see the second at cartoonnetwork.com or starwars.com. The second season includes most of the Grevious stuff.

I always thought Vader was related to the german word for father. I also liked the name Darth Maul.

 

[Jade Jaguar]

Re: \'Revenge of the Sith\' reviews (Spoilers)

Maul: to beat, bruise, mangle, or handle roughly... another obvious name. But I guess "Chewbacca" is the most obvious. Solo, as in he's a loner, is pretty obvious too.

 

[Recoil]

Re: \'Revenge of the Sith\' reviews (Spoilers)

Something people don't seem to get is that Star Wars is NOT about dialogue. It's more about about spaceships, and battles, aliens, droids, and lightsabers (excluding the ripped off Tao philosophy I don't really understand).

This may explain why these prequel movies aren't as good as the originals as well. Back when the originals were made it was really the first of its type. It was new, exciting and people couldn't get enough of it.

Between now and then there have been TONS of movies in the Sci-Fi realm that have covered those topics, not to mention 20+ years of Trek. Its been done. Its not new anymore, and its not thrilling just to see spaceships flying with laser blasts all around.

We need more than just that at this point.

 

[KoshFan]

Re: \'Revenge of the Sith\' reviews (Spoilers)

It's definitely the case that Star Wars would do better as silent movies with the John Williams score doing all the work, and I think Lucas has at least once said he kind of envisioned them that way.

I found Grievous's coughing to be strange and annoying until I saw the human heart. Then it began to make sense. But here's the question: can he use the Force, or just wield four stolen lightsabers? If he can't use the Force then it makes Obi-Wan's defeat of him more realistic. I think I kind of like the fact that he's a formidable fighter in his own right but runs when the odds are against him; pretty realistic. It adds a new category of villain to the movies, as all the others were either complete wimps (the Trade Federation types), total badasses (Vader/Maul), or "above it all" (Tarkin). But it does mean that it's a touch out of character that Grievous would call off his droids and fight Obi himself, though. It's also very much a bad cliche.

 

[vacantlook]

Re: \'Revenge of the Sith\' reviews (Spoilers)

The second season includes most of the Grevious stuff.

Technically, it's the third season that includes most of the Grievous stuff.

Season one is chapters 1-10, Season two is chapters 11-20. Those chapters were approx. 3 minutes long each, except for chapter 20, which is like 6 minutes. Season three is chapters 21-25, each of which is like 13 minutes long each. Season one and two have been released on DVD as one volume. The second volume, which will be season three, will be released sometime this fall I think.

I always thought Vader was related to the german word for father.

I've heard many people go down this route, but I think the genesis of his name only came from the word "invader." Here are some relevent portions from Star Wars The Annotated Screenplays.

From the notes on ANH, page 12:

In the rough draft Darth Vader is introduced during a scene on Alderaan (Granicus in the first draft), the capital of the new Galactic Empire. Vader, who is a relatively minor character in this version of the story, is a tall grim-looking general.... In the second draft and all subsequent screenplays Lord Darth Vader became the character we all know from the film.

From the notes on ESB, page 217:

The notion of Vader being Luke's father first appeared in the second draft.

Because of all this, I think the whole vader being some other language's word for father is just coincidental.

 

[vacantlook]

Re: \'Revenge of the Sith\' reviews (Spoilers)

But here's the question: can he use the Force, or just wield four stolen lightsabers? If he can't use the Force then it makes Obi-Wan's defeat of him more realistic. I think I kind of like the fact that he's a formidable fighter in his own right but runs when the odds are against him; pretty realistic.

As far as I've read, Grievous is not Force-sensitive. He just has increased agility and reflexes due to being a cyborg. He has been trained to fight with a lightsaber by Count Dooku, though.

But it does mean that it's a touch out of character that Grievous would call off his droids and fight Obi himself, though. It's also very much a bad cliche.

It's actually not out of character at all. Grievous prides himself on defeating Jedi. That's how he's gotten the lightsabers he uses: they're trophies from Jedi he's killed.

 

[KoshFan]

Re: \'Revenge of the Sith\' reviews (Spoilers)

True... I guess he just plays the odds, and sees Obi-Wan by himself as more vulnerable than Obi-Wan plus Anakin and Artoo. (Does he know that Palpatine's his master Sidious?)

 

[vacantlook]

Re: \'Revenge of the Sith\' reviews (Spoilers)

I don't think that Grievous knows that Palpatine is Sidious. But he does know that Sidious is Dooku's master.

I'd say Grievous's downfall is like that of many characters throughout the saga: he becomes overconfident.

 

[darth_librarian]

Re: \'Revenge of the Sith\' reviews (Spoilers)

Grevious was not aware that Palpatine and Sideous were one, nor were any of the other Seperatists,only Dokuu, who was Sideou's apprentice and himself a Sith Lord, be it a pawn.

Fas, IIRC, I read the whole Sifo-Dyas thing in a comic so I guess its EU, but as we never got a real explanation it will have to do. Sif-Dias was orginally planned to be Sideous, but having him being a real Jedi at the same time Palpatine was serving in the senate gave up problems.

Who said the second Death Star did'nt take 20 years as well, they may have started them both at the same time! We just saw one being made. In anycase, that scene

I agree, Grevious was better in the Cartoon (which rocks, was made by serious loving fans and is far more Star-Wars'y than Ep1 or 2)

Overall I kinda enjoyed it. The Padme/ Anakins scenes
sucked, I guess GL's direction and the actors hatred of bluescreen were to blame. I thought the pacing was off, some of this could have been cut.

I also know a lot of important scenes were cut, such as yoda having a Dialogue with Qui-Con Jiin through the force, which would have explained the final scenes better. I think the final edit was off kilter.

Anakin's turn was unconvincing, i agree. i liked The Emperor's True face being revealed (i think he was wearing a mask of some sort and it got blown away) which was symbolic of the Phantom Menace finally being revealed.

I also loved Mustafar, the whole Dante hell thing, and the Vader creation scenes. They rocked. The cutting to the birth of the twins was obvious, but well done anyway.

 

[GaribaldisHair]

Re: \'Revenge of the Sith\' reviews (Spoilers)

Speaking of Vader's name, something has grated on me for years.

During EpIV's lightsaber battle between DV and OB1, OB1 calls him "Darth". At the time, this made perfect sense, as we had only heard him referred to as Darth Vader/Lord Vader, so we could happily assume that Darth was just his name.

However, having now seen from Eps I and II (can't remember if it was ever mentioned in V and VI) that "Darth" is a title and not a name it is pretty strange that OB1 would just call him that - "Vader" makes a lot more sense, and would still serve the purpose of not giving away too early that DV was actually Anakin Skywalker.

Could it be that GL hadn't yet decided that Darth was a title and just thought Darth Vader was a cool name for the bad guy?

Neither here nor there really, just one of those really anoying little niggles.

 

[vacantlook]

Re: \'Revenge of the Sith\' reviews (Spoilers)

Sif-Dias was orginally planned to be Sideous, but having him being a real Jedi at the same time Palpatine was serving in the senate gave up problems.

While I haven't read it myself, I have read that there is a book (it might have been a comic book as you mention) that told that Sifo-Dyas was a Jedi that Dooku killed as his first test in his initiation into the Sith.

 

[Vonbloodbath]

Re: \'Revenge of the Sith\' reviews (Spoilers)

Here are my thoughts, having just seen it. In one word, three letters, one syllable, I thought "meh...".



To wax more lyrical, I'd say this: "full of sound and fury, signifying nothing."

No spoilers below, save what should be known to those who've watched the OT: Anakin does bad stuff and turns into (gasp!) Darth Vader. Also, it's all my (entirely subjective) opinion...

It was better than the last two, probably...certainly better than AotC, IMO.

The dialogue was awful, but we expected that, and there were occasional moments which were quite good (Palpatine, when he was in charismatic mode, in the opera, for instance).

What really let it down for me, is that the fight scenes weren't great...again, there were moments which were very good, but they were too busy, there was too much going on, and *most* importantly, they didn't have any narrative, to speak of.

You can tell a story without words, but that wasn't the case in any of those scenes, particularly, and most disappointingly, in the final duel. The Qui-Gon Jinn & Kenobi vs Maul fight it still streets ahead of anything here.

There were other things that jarred slightly, but the biggest flaws for me were pacing, dialogue, and drama (or lack thereof).

Not awful, by any means, but certainly not "the Star Wars Movie fans have been waiting for".

VB

PS - @Garibaldi's Hair - here's how I rationalise that; Kenobi's kinda making a verbal jab at Vader, driving home that he's a Sith, not his old friend Anakin. Kinda works.

 

[Quagmire]

Re: \'Revenge of the Sith\' reviews (Spoilers)

By the way I never thought the hooded Sidious had an odd face before ep III. He just seemed to hide his identity with his hood not actually changing his face.

 

[Sinclair]

Re: \'Revenge of the Sith\' reviews (Spoilers)

i liked The Emperor's True face being revealed...which was symbolic of the Phantom Menace finally being revealed.

I'm glad I wasn't the only one to think that. After the movie I kept thinking to myself that Episode I's title was all about Palpatine.

I've heard some argue that Anakin was actually the phantom menace, but at that point in his life he didn't really represent a threat. Palpatine was already plotting everything he ended up doing, including the eventual manipulation of Anakin.

 

[B5_Obsessed]

Re: \'Revenge of the Sith\' reviews (Spoilers)

I always thought Vader was related to the german word for father. I also liked the name Darth Maul.

Lucas once said this on the subject:

"In coming up with the name, I went back to my Dutch Root and gave him a name that approximated "Dark Father".

What's in a name, indeed?

 

[B5_Obsessed]

Re: \'Revenge of the Sith\' reviews (Spoilers)

The movie portrays it that Windu's reflection of Palpatine's force lightning back at him caused his deformation. I don't particularly like it.

What I found odd was his speech about the "attack leaving him scarred, but stronger in his resolve" (or something to that effect). I found myself thinking of President Yucshenko of the Ukraine after the infamous Dioxin Soup Assassination Plot. I'm not casting aspersions against Yuschenko, but the scene itself was creepily familiar.

 

[Recoil]

Re: \'Revenge of the Sith\' reviews (Spoilers)

By the way I never thought the hooded Sidious had an odd face before ep III. He just seemed to hide his identity with his hood not actually changing his face.

The hooded Sideous from Ep 1 - III to me looked EXACTLY the same as the Emperor in tESB and RotJ. No difference at all. It was the Chancellor that looked different and normal.

 

[StarStuff]

Re: \'Revenge of the Sith\' reviews (Spoilers)

Things to watch for: ( according to Time Magazine - May 9 )

1. George Lucas: He's in a scene at the opera, in blueface, playing Baron Papanoida.

2. The return (sigh) of Jar Jar Binks: You've got to admire Lucas' guts, since the character was so reviled. But at least he doesn't talk.

3. Jett Lucas: The director's son plays Zett Jukassa, a brave but doomed Jedi.

4. Leia's blackade runner: The hallway of her ship, where we first meet Vader, was re-created for this movie.

5. Grand Moff Tarkin lives! Or at least Lucasfilm managed to create an uncanny lookalike for Peter Cushing, who originated the role.

I agree with much of what has been said but I didn't have expectations that would result in me being disappointed. I just went to see the Star War's world for one last time.

And, Anakin 's last scene on the lava planet brought tears to my eyes.

 

[Jendia]

Re: \'Revenge of the Sith\' reviews (Spoilers)

Good call, Joe.