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Scenes that are best forgotten!

I actually liked Byron & the telepaths too and thought it was a good story. However, I think we can all agree that the singing was, well... awful! Maybe if he didn't sing, the telepath war could have been avoided /forums/images/icons/wink.gif

I also think the whole of S5 was good (and got better on a second viewing), it just wasn't as good as the previous series and S4 was a tough act to follow since it was so relentless (and I beleive that some of S4 was originally going to be in S5). I can see why some people weren't too keen on it though. I am surprised that some people are not keen on S4, but I guess we all have our preferences /forums/images/icons/smile.gif
 
He appeared as a Minbari in Atonement and in In the Beginning (the same character, I believe - called Morann). Looked a bit different without hair but quite recognizable once you know to look for him.
 
I myself like season 5 as much as any of the other seasons. I really dont' understand why people hate Byron so much. I just don't get it. I liked the telepath thread, although I do think it was stretched a few episodes too far.

I can see why people wouldn't like season 5 though. It's all about expectations. After the gargantuan season 4, most people probably couldn't handle the more subdued aftermath style of s5. Most people seem to want to see the war and then that's all. Pity. What comes after is quite juicy. At least I think so anyway
 
</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
<font color="yellow"> Originally posted by A_Ranger: </font color>
I really dont' understand why people hate Byron so much. I just don't get it.

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The combination of the voice, the long hair, the attitude, and the fact that Lyta liked him, was ...irritating. /forums/images/icons/tongue.gif

To me, Byron was just feckless. /forums/images/icons/rolleyes.gif

He was just as irritating as Morann though (when watching ItB after having seen Season 5, and seeing him as Byron).
 
I confess, I LIKED the singing <runs and hides> lol

maybe it had something to do with me being suicidal at the time - oh well /forums/images/icons/smile.gif
 
Feckless, meaning weak and ineffective... Well I certainly don't think he was weak. He was very intense, and fixated on his cause, which is , IMHO, why a lot of people didn't like him. And, although he didn't achieve his goal, so in that sense, he wasn't effective, he had an effect on a lot of people, and his name was probably on the lips of those who finally destroyed Psycorps, so I think he was far from totally ineffective.

As someone who wrote a long defense of Byron and his people shortly after coming to this board, I'm glad to see there are others here who liked him, and hopefully saw him for the hero he was, even if he was misguided in his ransom attempt. As to the singing -- I grew up singing cum by ya in church, and never particularly liked it, but for a close knit group, like his rogue teeps, to sing folksongs to express their solidarity, seems natural, and inoffensive to me, even if I didn't find it personally inspiring. So, I have no reason to wish to forget the Byron/teeps scenes, apart from the fact that they didn't get the justice they struggled for, and deserved.
 
Before he hopped in the sack with Lyta, she told him she might damage him if they went through with it. I think she did, he seemed amiable enough if a bit annoying before that, I think Lyta inadvertantly pushed him over the edge, especially the bits of seeing the vorlons mucking about with babies to create telepaths. There is a definite up in tempo at that point.
 
Season 5, except for Byron and company, was great in my opinion. I really enjoyed seeing Zhaban, and other places we hadn't seen before. Yeah, the telepaths story line sucked, but let's not forget - JMS was winging it at the time. A little while before S5 began filming, all of JMS's notes were stolen, so he lost tons of his ideas. Throw in the departure of Claudia and it took a while to get the season under control and Byron dead.

-Tim
 
</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
A little while before S5 began filming, all of JMS's notes were stolen, so he lost tons of his ideas.

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I didn't know that! I used to write a few years ago and lost some of my work (due to my housemate's cat using my notes as a litter tray - maybe it was trying to tell me something), so I can imagine how JMS must have felt /forums/images/icons/mad.gif
 
</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
<font color="yellow"> Originally posted by Jade Jaguar: </font color>
Feckless, meaning weak and ineffective... Well I certainly don't think he was weak.

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feckless: 1. ineffective, incompetent, feeble 2. without worth, spirit or value.

Byron to Lyta (paraphrasing): Lyta, have I provided such a bad example, been that bad of a leader? (Waa! Waa!)

This guy was feeling sorry for himself every few seconds. He did and said some hard things, but the way he conducted himself made it look like he could break down into tears at any moment. Maybe it was the actor, but this guy just struck me as Mr. Sensitivity. I think it's the quivering nature of his voice. It does not inspire confidence in a leader. BAD casting, IMO.

Lyta's more of a strong leader than this guy.

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
<font color="yellow"> Originally posted by FlipperPA: </font color>
I really enjoyed seeing Zhaban

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Zhaban? The planet from "The Paragon of Animals" (home of the Enphili)??? I didn't remember the planet being named.
 
Yeah, I actually only found out about the notes being stolen this past year. My source is the former president of the Philadelphia Science Fiction Foundation, so I think its pretty darn reliable!

Funny, thing, the same guy who is my source also got Robyn Atkin Downes at WorldCon in 2000 (Millenicon) in Philadelphia. He was a nice enough guy, but his Shakespearean acting background was horrible for the part of Byron... I would have much preferred someone with a bit less attitude, less arrogant presentation... someone a little bit "dirtier." Byron's presentation by Downes while bitching about having such a rough life just didn't mesh.
 
Personally I didn't really mind Byron. He had a unique way of approaching things. What did bug me is that in his self-righteousness he didn't take a less confrontational approach. If he'd just gone and talked to Delenn she would have listened and could have helped work things out. Instead he walks in and starts threatening all the ambassadors. Brilliant diplomatic tactics; terrify and threaten before you start making demands. It seems that Byron went to the Centauri school of asking politely.

And about the elevator scene between Lyta and Zach -- that's one of the funniest scenes in the whole B5 universe! It's perfect, especially the way it doesn't fool with continuity at all.

Season 5 had some weak moments, yes, but on the whole it's only "bad" in comparison to Seasons 2,3, and 4. It had a lot to live up to.
 
Well, what's Zhaban?

We've got Z'ha'dum and X'ha'dam (from the Centauri Prime trilogy of books), but Zhaban is a new one on me.
 
</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
As for Seasons 1 through 4, or as I call it, the REAL Show , I would list Ivanova's Boom-shaka-laka dance, G'Kar's fighting techniques in "A Late Delivery from Avalon", the poorly choreographed fight scenes (remember the spinning-kicking Centauri?) in "The Long Twilight Struggle", and Lyta's screaming "I MEAN IT!", in "Between the Darkness and the Light". And what the heck, I'll add any scene with Number One threating to break someone's bones.

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What's wrong with this......:
1. You can't get rid of the Boom-shaka-laka dance and if you do /forums/images/icons/mad.gif /forums/images/icons/devil.gif
2. I'll agree with the spin-kicking Centauri
3. That's what Number One does

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
Whenever Franklin's girlfriend sang

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I HAVE to disagree with this, Erica Gimpel is a wonderful singer and actress.

I didn't like the Zarg singing.
 
I have to confess that I also didn't find the Telepath Arc too bad, and that Byron wasn't so bad either. I suspect that one of the reasons that people were turned off that side of S5, was that, propr to its airing, there were these hints of the 'Telepath Arc', and I think people assumed that it was going to be bigger than it was, even to the point of being connected in a more visceral way to the Telepath War (this was hinted in some fashion during 'Deconstruction..').

Instead, all we got was a little event, about essentially a cultish group. It didn't have the momentous feel of the other events during the preceeding 4 years, and of the Centauri arc late S5, and as such I think people were a little disappointed.

That they focused on Byron in such a negative way was unfortunate, as I think he was one of JMS better creations. He was developed in such a way to elicit such a reaction from the audience (ie people didn't like the character, because the character was not particularly likeable - he was a cult leader, with all the baggage that goes with it). Maybe the actor's portrayal aggravated some people? I certainly didn't mind it.

Anyway, back to the original thread, the scenes best forgotten, for me at least, is anything in 'The River Of Souls' - IMHO a real stinker, with little redeeming features.
 
Worst scenes or lines? Definitely the following:

Delenn: "if you value your lives, be somewhere else."
Sheridan: "how many people have to die before you're satisfied?"
Londo: "I'm sorry."
G'Kar: "We are all the sum of our tears; To little and the ground is not fertile and nothing can grow there; to much, the best of us is washed away."

All of Sleeping in Light.

All of TDoFS. The Fall of Night. Severed Dreams. Ship of Tears.

Shooting the Zarg was literary GENIUS.




theprecedingisnotonlysatirebutacompletelieandisnotintended
tobetakenseriouslybyanyone
 
Gee, LH, you didn't waste any time trying to stir things up! I'll not bite on the bait, though! /forums/images/icons/wink.gif But I would like to ask why all the posts in this thread now say notify moderator at the bottom of them? /forums/images/icons/shocked.gif

Just checked this thread again, and all the broken image/notify moderator tags at the bottom are gone! What weirdness was that? /forums/images/icons/confused.gif
 
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