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Scenes that are best forgotten!
- Thread starter Elric
- Start date
TheInfection
Regular
About Season 5...
Okay, this is just my theories and opinions, and if I'm wrong about something, please correct me.
When B5 went for the cable channel TNT, some things changed and I think these things are partially the reason why S5 seemed to be cheaper when compared to the episodes from S4 and even from S1. As I've understood, the shooting days per episode dropped from 8 days to 6. And the budget was decreased. Both because of the orders of TNT. These things brings problems for the people who are used to the long
shooting period, without hurry (of course some episodes were different from others, Severed Dreams for instance...).
About the story...
When Claudia Christian dropped out for some reason (I think that happenedbecause of a communication breakdown between Christian, JMS and WB, IMO), the Byron-story was hurt. Ivanova as a commander of the station would have fallen in love with Byron and that would have increased the tension between the commanding people like herself, Sheridan, Garibaldi and Zack. Of course when Lyta replaced her, the story suffered because there wasn't no "official"
connection in the staff of B5 and Lyta, only a friendship with Zack.
Byron as a character was man who wanted to help his fellow telepaths, but mostly because he regreted his dirty past and wanted to be saved from it. He was mostly full of himself and his stories were a joke. And the group of rogue teeps he was "leading" was a small new agey group without cordination
and sense. Only thing they seemed to be "good at" was singing and being creepy.
Bester was now a tratidional bad guy without any real depth. When he came to the station he had a great plan to do something "bad and evil" so to speak. Gone were the times of Ship Of Tears and Dust To Dust. Of course JMS tried to do something about this and wrote The Corps is Mother, the Corps is Father, but (again IMO) failed.
When it was revealed that the Centauri were behind the attacks, I was disappointed. JMS pointed out somewhere that it was important because he wanted to focus our eyes on Londo's actions. It would've been better to keep the part of the Centauri secret. Why? Because the beings (the Drakh)
in the Centauri Prime would've remained better as a mystery. Now we knew that they were behind it. Because there would've been some questions about the honesty of the Drazi and the Brakiri for instance. Because we would've found out something new when watching the episodes again.
It would have been a great help if JMS would have accepted more scripts from other people. It's ironic how I usually like the arc episodes better, but in S5 the best episode is Day Of The Dead which has this dreamy quality. Of course there are other episodes that I like... All My Dreams, Torn Asunder
and The Fall Of Centauri Prime were the best examples what B5 really was, altough the few amount of these good episodes didn't save the season.
Regards,
Marko Marin
Okay, this is just my theories and opinions, and if I'm wrong about something, please correct me.
When B5 went for the cable channel TNT, some things changed and I think these things are partially the reason why S5 seemed to be cheaper when compared to the episodes from S4 and even from S1. As I've understood, the shooting days per episode dropped from 8 days to 6. And the budget was decreased. Both because of the orders of TNT. These things brings problems for the people who are used to the long
shooting period, without hurry (of course some episodes were different from others, Severed Dreams for instance...).
About the story...
When Claudia Christian dropped out for some reason (I think that happenedbecause of a communication breakdown between Christian, JMS and WB, IMO), the Byron-story was hurt. Ivanova as a commander of the station would have fallen in love with Byron and that would have increased the tension between the commanding people like herself, Sheridan, Garibaldi and Zack. Of course when Lyta replaced her, the story suffered because there wasn't no "official"
connection in the staff of B5 and Lyta, only a friendship with Zack.
Byron as a character was man who wanted to help his fellow telepaths, but mostly because he regreted his dirty past and wanted to be saved from it. He was mostly full of himself and his stories were a joke. And the group of rogue teeps he was "leading" was a small new agey group without cordination
and sense. Only thing they seemed to be "good at" was singing and being creepy.
Bester was now a tratidional bad guy without any real depth. When he came to the station he had a great plan to do something "bad and evil" so to speak. Gone were the times of Ship Of Tears and Dust To Dust. Of course JMS tried to do something about this and wrote The Corps is Mother, the Corps is Father, but (again IMO) failed.
When it was revealed that the Centauri were behind the attacks, I was disappointed. JMS pointed out somewhere that it was important because he wanted to focus our eyes on Londo's actions. It would've been better to keep the part of the Centauri secret. Why? Because the beings (the Drakh)
in the Centauri Prime would've remained better as a mystery. Now we knew that they were behind it. Because there would've been some questions about the honesty of the Drazi and the Brakiri for instance. Because we would've found out something new when watching the episodes again.
It would have been a great help if JMS would have accepted more scripts from other people. It's ironic how I usually like the arc episodes better, but in S5 the best episode is Day Of The Dead which has this dreamy quality. Of course there are other episodes that I like... All My Dreams, Torn Asunder
and The Fall Of Centauri Prime were the best examples what B5 really was, altough the few amount of these good episodes didn't save the season.
Regards,
Marko Marin
PillowRock
Regular
The telepath arc with Byron & co. wasn't one of my favorite parts of the saga, but I think it gets a bit of a bad rap. IMHO it was hurt but the real uncertainty of S5 (or the supposed near certainty that there wouldn't be one). As it is the telepath arc seems to stand apart and not really be integrated into the larger tapestry created by the otherwise overlapping story threads.
My guess is that, had S5 been a comparitive certainty when S4 was being produced, Byron's group would have been introduced much earlier. I would definitely expect them to appear before the end of the Earth Civil War. At that point it would still make sense for them to see B5 as a potential haven from EarthGov and Psy Corps. Asking for asylum after Earth has joined the Alliance, and B5 has agreed to uphold everyone's laws with their own citizens, just doesn't make any sense. Sheridan granting it, and having *any* expectation of being able to keep that promise, also doesn't make any sense after they have set up the Alliance.
If Byron and his followers had been allowed to be seen, and integrated into the station's community, over the course of the last half or two thirds of S4 and then been threatened by Bester I think it would have felt more like an integrated part of the overall story. Ivanova being stuck in the middle of the balancing act instead of Lochley would have helped too. I think that Lochley also gets harsher treatment than she deserves (although I still prefer Ivanova). However, the fact remains that an established character being that position, and being somewhat sympathetic to Byron, will always do a better job of transferring sympathy to the audiance than having another new character do it.
My guess is that, had S5 been a comparitive certainty when S4 was being produced, Byron's group would have been introduced much earlier. I would definitely expect them to appear before the end of the Earth Civil War. At that point it would still make sense for them to see B5 as a potential haven from EarthGov and Psy Corps. Asking for asylum after Earth has joined the Alliance, and B5 has agreed to uphold everyone's laws with their own citizens, just doesn't make any sense. Sheridan granting it, and having *any* expectation of being able to keep that promise, also doesn't make any sense after they have set up the Alliance.
If Byron and his followers had been allowed to be seen, and integrated into the station's community, over the course of the last half or two thirds of S4 and then been threatened by Bester I think it would have felt more like an integrated part of the overall story. Ivanova being stuck in the middle of the balancing act instead of Lochley would have helped too. I think that Lochley also gets harsher treatment than she deserves (although I still prefer Ivanova). However, the fact remains that an established character being that position, and being somewhat sympathetic to Byron, will always do a better job of transferring sympathy to the audiance than having another new character do it.
Zhaban is the Drazi homeworld... here's the TV guide description of "The Ragged Edge", although I'm not sure if Zhaban is directly references in any episodes:
As the attacks continue on the Alliance shipping lanes, Garibaldi goes to the Drazi homeworld of Zhaban in search of clues.
All the best,
-Tim
As the attacks continue on the Alliance shipping lanes, Garibaldi goes to the Drazi homeworld of Zhaban in search of clues.
All the best,
-Tim
Yeah, I checked the Lurker's Guide... I thought I had seen it there. When I couldn't find it there, I checked google for "zhaban drazi homeworld" and a few results came up. Apparently its also a place in Albania. It might not be canon, but it sounds like it has a JMS ring to it, IMHO, and I like the name as the name for the Drazi homeworld. PurpleGreenLand just doesn't have the same ring! ;-)
D
**DONOTDELETE**
Guest
Only a true B5 lover would start a thread like this.
I agree with you, except Lyta's response was OK with me... though it will probably bother me from now on /forums/images/icons/rolleyes.gif The one that really makes me cringe is Sinclair's speech when abandoning B4, whilst Garibaldi is *frantically* trying to get him to move, "It's like watching a great old ship go down for the last time." Huh? B4 ain't a "great old ship". If it was, how many times does one expect to see a great old ship go down? Maybe once? /forums/images/icons/grin.gif Then again, God! it's so trite!!!
I agree with you, except Lyta's response was OK with me... though it will probably bother me from now on /forums/images/icons/rolleyes.gif The one that really makes me cringe is Sinclair's speech when abandoning B4, whilst Garibaldi is *frantically* trying to get him to move, "It's like watching a great old ship go down for the last time." Huh? B4 ain't a "great old ship". If it was, how many times does one expect to see a great old ship go down? Maybe once? /forums/images/icons/grin.gif Then again, God! it's so trite!!!
Galahad
Regular
Maybe it makes sense if you think that Sinclair compared B4 to the Flying Dutchman. A great old ship from a legendary perspective. As Sinclair had found the reason for B4's disappearance, but not the actions causing it, he could have been thinking that this was the last time anyone from Earth would see, that it was going to pass beyond certainly his time. sort of like closing the book on a story. It didn't rile me anyway. Boom shakalaka did though, and I feel embarrassed when i'm watching it and anyone is in the house.
The Zarg bit isn't as bad but it is... well silly!
I liked Season 5 on the whole.
Most other things in B5 that irked me, were actually emotional responses to characters provoked intentionally by jms. So they don't count.
Out of these, people I'd like to slap are:
Cynthia Torqueman
Dan Randall
Julie Musante
Bester
Morden
Cartagia
Talia (Mk 2)
Ulkesh (Hmm maybe that might be a bit risky)
Anything looking vaguely spider/mantis like and with a habit of going invisible.
Refa
G'Sten
Sebastian
William Morgan Clarke
Deathwalker
Lyndisty
I could go on, but I'm already set to go out and bash a few heads! /forums/images/icons/mad.gif /forums/images/icons/mad.gif /forums/images/icons/mad.gif /forums/images/icons/mad.gif /forums/images/icons/tongue.gif /forums/images/icons/wink.gif /forums/images/icons/grin.gif
The Zarg bit isn't as bad but it is... well silly!
I liked Season 5 on the whole.
Most other things in B5 that irked me, were actually emotional responses to characters provoked intentionally by jms. So they don't count.
Out of these, people I'd like to slap are:
Cynthia Torqueman
Dan Randall
Julie Musante
Bester
Morden
Cartagia
Talia (Mk 2)
Ulkesh (Hmm maybe that might be a bit risky)
Anything looking vaguely spider/mantis like and with a habit of going invisible.
Refa
G'Sten
Sebastian
William Morgan Clarke
Deathwalker
Lyndisty
I could go on, but I'm already set to go out and bash a few heads! /forums/images/icons/mad.gif /forums/images/icons/mad.gif /forums/images/icons/mad.gif /forums/images/icons/mad.gif /forums/images/icons/tongue.gif /forums/images/icons/wink.gif /forums/images/icons/grin.gif
kin_of_zathras
Regular
We're up to The Ragged Edge and except for Byron's singing I love S5. Day of the Dead was strange and wonderful, makes me think jms made a mistake by not farming out the spots for Learning Curve, Strange Relations and Secrets of the Soul to freelancers. The cgi is absolutely gorgeous! And we get to see a whole lot more of Londo and G'kar. I do miss Sheridan not driving the story though.
I don't think I could ever forgive jms for the singing. It's the first and hopefully only time I've ever wanted to change the channel when B5 was on.
I don't think I could ever forgive jms for the singing. It's the first and hopefully only time I've ever wanted to change the channel when B5 was on.
Elric
Regular
</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
Out of these, people I'd like to slap are:
[/quote]
That would make an interesting thread all by itself. There are quite a few slappable (?) characters but I think they were intended this way.
I liked Sebastian (in a strange kind of way) & I really liked Cartagia (in an even stranger way!).
Out of these, people I'd like to slap are:
[/quote]
That would make an interesting thread all by itself. There are quite a few slappable (?) characters but I think they were intended this way.
I liked Sebastian (in a strange kind of way) & I really liked Cartagia (in an even stranger way!).
Elric
Regular
</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
Only a true B5 lover would start a thread like this.
[/quote]
Correct /forums/images/icons/grin.gif (I hope you're not being sarcastic?!)
</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
I agree with you, except Lyta's response was OK with me... though it will probably bother me from now on
[/quote]
Sorry if I have now ruined that scene for you /forums/images/icons/frown.gif I just remember watching that for the first time with some friends and we all just looked at each other with raised eyebrows!
Only a true B5 lover would start a thread like this.
[/quote]
Correct /forums/images/icons/grin.gif (I hope you're not being sarcastic?!)
</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
I agree with you, except Lyta's response was OK with me... though it will probably bother me from now on
[/quote]
Sorry if I have now ruined that scene for you /forums/images/icons/frown.gif I just remember watching that for the first time with some friends and we all just looked at each other with raised eyebrows!
Lots of people hated season 5, but I found it was one of the most powerful seasons with the fall of Centauri Prime and Londo falling under the servitude of the Drakh to save his people from destruction. I completely agree Byron's singing was really bad, but it was part of his image. He was seen as the leader of a 'cult' and a martyr, and it showed his obsessiveness to finding a planet for telepaths.
hypatia
Regular
IIRC, Byron did not originally have that as his plan. He first mentioned demanding a home planet for telepaths after he saw through Lyta what the Vorlons had done to make them.
What I wonder is: what was his original plan? Surely not to just stay on B5 until his group was big enough to be noticed by Bester. /forums/images/icons/confused.gif
Well, actually, they already were noticed by Bester, weren't they? But Byron couldn't have been planning just to stay on B5 for the rest of his life, could he?
What I wonder is: what was his original plan? Surely not to just stay on B5 until his group was big enough to be noticed by Bester. /forums/images/icons/confused.gif
Well, actually, they already were noticed by Bester, weren't they? But Byron couldn't have been planning just to stay on B5 for the rest of his life, could he?
KoshN
Super Moderator
</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
<font color="yellow"> Originally posted by A_Ranger: </font color>
I'd like to slap Julie Musante as well, but I'd rather slap her...oh wait..this isn't the nc-17 forum /forums/images/icons/rolleyes.gif
[/quote]
Yeah, she's gorgeous. /forums/images/icons/grin.gif I have a clip of her topless, somewhere.
<font color="yellow"> Originally posted by A_Ranger: </font color>
I'd like to slap Julie Musante as well, but I'd rather slap her...oh wait..this isn't the nc-17 forum /forums/images/icons/rolleyes.gif
[/quote]
Yeah, she's gorgeous. /forums/images/icons/grin.gif I have a clip of her topless, somewhere.
A_Ranger
Regular
</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
What I wonder is: what was his original plan? Surely not to just stay on B5 until his group was big enough to be noticed by Bester.
[/quote] I just watched the s5 first episode the other day. Byron says something about in the future creating a world of their own, with B5 just being a temporary solution. He might not have had an entire planet in mind; it seemed to me as if he just wanted to gather his people up at B5 and then one day find a planet where you could live their way. Of course, somebody could have slipped crack into my coke last night, and I could be dead wrong about all this.
What I wonder is: what was his original plan? Surely not to just stay on B5 until his group was big enough to be noticed by Bester.
[/quote] I just watched the s5 first episode the other day. Byron says something about in the future creating a world of their own, with B5 just being a temporary solution. He might not have had an entire planet in mind; it seemed to me as if he just wanted to gather his people up at B5 and then one day find a planet where you could live their way. Of course, somebody could have slipped crack into my coke last night, and I could be dead wrong about all this.
