Season 1 hump....

[Wulf]

To start off, I loved B5 back in the day. I still do love it, but lately I've been trying to rewatch it. I even tried to get my fiance into it.

Has anybody else had trouble slogging through Season 1 to get to the rest?

My fiance couldn't even make it through to episode 2, and I can't really say as I blame her.

I have all these memories of how great this show is, and all through episode 1 I kept thinking "hey, that off-hand comment pays off later, neat", but the episode itself was just boring. Without the foreknowledge of how all these references are interesting it's just not fun to watch.

Sinclair has all the charisma of a sponge, and I don't really remember him getting better. Sheridan isn't without his flaws, but at least somebody would notice if his scenes were replaced by Ben Stein lectures from the Wonder Years.

What are your thoughts on the starting season/episodes? Is it me that's lost something, or is season one really just the price one must pay to get to the Babylonian goodness?

Are there any standalone episodes/arcs any of you would recommend that could get my fiance hooked enough to start from the beginning? I'd think I only get one more chance at it before she thinks my shoes are too tight and I don't know how to dance.

 

[JoeD80]

Without the foreknowledge of how all these references are interesting it's just not fun to watch.

Certainly wasn't my experience. But there are definitely better episodes in season one than "Midnight on the Firing Line."

Sinclair has all the charisma of a sponge, and I don't really remember him getting better.

Don't agree with that assessment at all. He's playing a character with massive survivor's guilt and being haunted by his past; watch "And the Sky Full of Stars."

What are your thoughts on the starting season/episodes? Is it me that's lost something, or is season one really just the price one must pay to get to the Babylonian goodness?

My opinion is that season one is quite good. Certainly improvements were made going into season two though.

Are there any standalone episodes/arcs any of you would recommend that could get my fiance hooked enough to start from the beginning?

Depends what kind of stories your fiance is looking for I guess. I think "Infection" is a fun action story; most people hate that one. "Signs and Portents" certainly connects to the arc quite a bit; "Babylon Squared" and "A Voice in the Wilderness" I think both have a good blend of story, drama, and comedy ("fasten or zip?")

Also season one is where one gets to know the characters, so you can understand their shifting motivations in season two.

 

[Ninja_Squirrel]

My opinion is that season one is quite good. Certainly improvements were made going into season two though.

Agreed. Season 1 is a bit rough around the edges, isn't nearly as good as the middle three seasons, and contains 3 of my 6 least favorite episodes (Soul Hunter, Infection, Believers). But it's still got a lot of important parts and redeeming qualities too.

Depends what kind of stories your fiance is looking for I guess. I think "Infection" is a fun action story; most people hate that one. "Signs and Portents" certainly connects to the arc quite a bit; "Babylon Squared" and "A Voice in the Wilderness" I think both have a good blend of story, drama, and comedy ("fasten or zip?")

"Infection" is not only a predominately hated episode, but it's also the very first episode produced (much of season 1 was filmed out of order). So, it's the roughest episode in every way. Its still marginally important for its first mentions of ISN, IPX, organic technology, and alien hate groups back home. But, it's still mostly skippable with the exception of Sinclair's great monologue at the end about humanity needing to go to the stars, which I think is on YouTube.

The most important episodes as far as arc would be: Mind War, And the Sky Full of Stars, Signs and Portents, A Voice in the Wilderness - Parts 1 & 2, Babylon Squared, and Chrysalis. And, for the sake of time, Voice 1 & 2 are kind of skippable too.

But, my two favorite episodes of the season are two really enjoyable stand-alones: "Deathwalker" and "The Quality of Mercy." I love the twist ending in "Deathwalker." And, "The Quality of Mercy" is a nice Star Trek-like morality play with some comic relief and even some minor arc importance. It's the season 1 episode that feels the most like season 2. Wulf, maybe skipping ahead to these episodes might help get your fiance into the show better.

But, if you're *really* desperate to turn someone on to B5, and they just can't handle season 1 *at all* , one option is to skip it altogether. One of the hosts of the Tuning Into Sci-Fi TV podcast convinced his two co-hosts to watch & review B5 episodes during the summer TV slumps. He had seen all of B5, but the other two were new to it. Rather than watching season 1, he created a video that quickly summarized it, and they all started at season 2, reviewing one season per summer 2010 through 2012 so far. The two co-hosts who are seeing B5 for the first time seem to be following the story just fine having only seen the summary of season 1. Here's the link to that summary video.

 

[vorlonlovechild]

you don't like believers?

''The Avalanche has already started...it is too late for the pebbles to vote''

Love it myself - and it has one of the most memorable 'wtf??' moments in sci-fi.

Still can't believe they ****** *** *** (oooops spoilers)

 

[KoshN]

you don't like believers?

''The Avalanche has already started...it is too late for the pebbles to vote''

Love it myself - and it has one of the most memorable 'wtf??' moments in sci-fi.

Still can't believe they ****** *** *** (oooops spoilers)

Gawd, no! Believers is the worst, most daytime-soap-operatic episode of Babylon 5. Ack! Ptui!

 

[Sindatur]

Yea, like JoeD80, I enjoy most of S1 myself, and don't understand why it's so hard for people to get through, or why they don't understand that Sinclair isn't bad acting, it's the character (with a hole in his mind) and the Survivor's Guilt. Having said that, yea, many people do find S1 tough to watch.

Surprised to hear a dislike for Midnight on the Firing Line, usually that's one people do like, and then have issues up until And the Sky Full of Stars

 

[Ninja_Squirrel]

you don't like believers?

''The Avalanche has already started...it is too late for the pebbles to vote''

"Believers" has always been one of my least favorite episodes, though I admit that on my last season 1 re-watch it went from 1st- or 2nd-least favorite to only my 4th-least favorite episode. And, I do love Kosh's avalanche quote. I just wish it were in a better episode.

Love it myself - and it has one of the most memorable 'wtf??' moments in sci-fi.

Still can't believe they ****** *** *** (oooops spoilers)

That's one of the reasons I disliked it a little less this last time around. The fact that they ****** *** *** is pretty daring and unconventional, especially compared to other shows of its time. I also focused a little more this time on Sinclair's no-win dilemma. As hard as it was, I think he was actually "right," and Franklin was actually "wrong."

But, that stupid gloppit egg scene... Ugghhhh. That was the most wrong thing of all.

 

[vacantlook]

The idea behind the story of "Believers" is good, and there are a couple of worthwhile moments, but the alien's culture is just so silly it really drags down what's good about the story.

And in case anyone might want to use it, the spoiler code for the board is:

[ spoiler= ] [ /spoiler ]

Whatever you type between the = and the ] following it will show what your spoilers are about, and you have to include the = even if you do not include any info between it and the ]. For example:

[ spoiler=using spoiler tags ] Example. [ /spoiler ]

without spaces produces

Spoiler for using spoiler tags:

Example.

 

[Wulf]

Spoiler for :

...Sorry.

Anyway, when I first started watching B5 'back in the day' it was sometime after season 1 so Sheridan was my first impression, not this Sinclair guy =]

It's possible I'm still biased against him from that. I still intend to rewatch Season 1 but haven't found the time/motivation.

 

[JonFrain]

Season 1 is really tough for most sci-fi fans to get through. I think Sinclair had more substance to him than Sheridan and I really missed him when he left.

The only required Season 1 episodes in my mind are:

"And the Sky Full of Stars"
"Signs and Portents"
"A Voice in the Wilderness"
"Babylon Squared"
"Chrysalis"

I can see a justification for starting new people with Chrysalis and letting them go back to season 1 later if they get hooked. I think it's better to get them hooked than risk them giving up because of the poor production values of Season 1. Most B5 fans probably wouldn't agree with me, but as the years go by it's harder to get people to accept B5. It's frustrating, but I try not to get my hopes up in converting people these days.

 

[JoeD80]

I can see a justification for starting new people with Chrysalis and letting them go back to season 1 later if they get hooked

That's very odd to pick as a first episode, considering all its tie-ins to earlier season one.

poor production values of Season 1.

say what? Improvements were made season-to-season but it's not like they suddenly threw out the season one stuff.

 

[Psi Cop]

When I re-watch B5 I don't have time to go thru all 110 episodes and 5 movies but certainly Season 1 should NOT be skipped! There are so many ties in to later episodes and the arc. I usually start off with In The Beginning, not technically part of Season 1 but definitely a better starting point than The Gathering (Which I NEVER re-watch. Not that it is bad but it is only available in 4:3 rather than widescreen, the character/station effects suffer greatly from a lack of budget, and too many of the characters do not return for the proper series. For me these reasons make the The Gathering seem out of place and unwatchable). For Season 1 proper I watch:

Midnight On The Firing Line (sets up the relationship between G'Kar/Londo)
Soul Hunter (for Delenn's recognition of Sinclair at the end, important for WWE)
Born To The Purple (Londo's relationship with Adira, important in S3. As an aside Trakis was a character that should have returned!)
Mind War (Psi Corps/Bester's introduction to the series)
And The Sky Full Of Stars (Sinclair's situation explained more clearly especially if you haven't seen The Gathering)
Signs & Portents (Need I explain? Morden etc)
A Voice In The Wilderness (The machine does play a part later so this is good back story even if a double episode was a bit of a stretch)
Babylon Squared (Sooo important for later arc, WWE)
Chrysalis (Delenn's change, the Prez)

There are many stand-alone episodes as opposed to arc episodes in this series mainly to get an audience into the show. Too much arc in Season 1 could have put people off.

 

[JoeD80]

too many of the characters do not return for the proper series.

I think it ended up giving Babylon 5 more of a sense of realism as it were; since characters actually change positions and come and go.

 

[Galahad]

No love for Parliament of Dreams, then? With that wonderful ending?

 

[Raw Shark]

I love season one. Like B5 itself, it's a great experiment. The results are sometimes brilliant, sometimes clunky. The fist fights are generally not great, some of the guest stars detract from their episodes, some stuff just doesn't work. But the writing was so radically different from everything else on TV, like Star Trek the Next Generation, which was so much like the Love Boat it couldn't be taken seriously. Synthohol, holodeck, endless conversations about chocolate! Stuff that didn't work in Babylon's first season got jettisoned, while the bad stuff in Next Generation was kept forever. 'But what are they feeling, Counselor?'

The structure of season one was so different, introducing us to a new universe, characters and details, bits of galactic history, just before it all starts getting violently dismantled in 'Chrysalis.' That's daring, establishing something of a comfort zone for the viewer, then taking it away. As a psychological blow to the audience, that's tough to beat.

And unlike JMS, I think 'Infection' is a great episode. It was the first one filmed, and provided an excellent glimpse of what was out there in the galaxy: organic tech, which is both valuable and dangerous; shadowy black ops organizations back home, obsessed with winning the next war against the Minbari; IPX, an ambitious company which sends people around the galaxy to find Pandora's boxes, and crack them open because there's money to be made, in theory; dead worlds, once home to advanced civilizations, some of which have accidentally killed themselves off, because they were worried about the next invasion by powerful aliens, who also leave cratered, blackened planets in their wake, it's just their way. And in our noble heroes, terrible flaws caused by the horrors of the Earth-Minbari War, like Sinclair's death wish. And after the crisis is defused, Earth Central, in all its wisdom, takes the dangerous artifacts back to the homeworld for further study. If that's not an ominous ending, nothing is.

It is tough to get people into season one, they can't look past the clunky parts, or the CGI which was cutting edge then, but some of which looks cartoonish now. Like the fools who hate the original Star Trek because it didn't have a budget for special effects and looks cheap. They don't realize it's about the story. The old Star Trek had great stories. But no one had a story as good as Babylon's.

Maybe you should just tie your friend to a chair?

Raw Shark

"Be careful, Ambassador. Not every dream I've heard lately ends well for you."
Cmdr. Sinclair

 

[g'kar_on_toast]

I really loved season one.. I instantly took to Babylon 5 so I find it hard to understand why people don't like that season.

I liked Sinclair a lot more than Sheridan also and missed him when he was replaced.

I think season one is really important to watch as it shows you everyone's relationships with each other and you get to know each person.

I've heard so many people saying they don't like season one though!

 

[RW7427]

I instantly took to B5 in season 5. I liked it from the very first episode that I watched. I hadn't seen any of the previous seasons, so when people whined that Lochley wasn't like Ivanova, and that they missed Marcus and Sinclair so I didn't have the slightest idea what the big deal was.

 

[KoshN]

Yay! A post that's NOT spam!

I instantly took to B5 in season 5. I liked it from the very first episode that I watched.

In Season 5, the Lochley episode??? Skeletor didn't put you off?

I hadn't seen any of the previous seasons, so when people whined that Lochley wasn't like Ivanova, and that they missed Marcus and Sinclair so I didn't have the slightest idea what the big deal was.

Well, NOW, you know.

I instantly took to B5 in Season 3 Episode 21, "Shadow Dancing." That made me not know what other people didn't like about Michael O'Hare as Sinclair. Then, when I saw Season 1, I thought he was A-OK.

 

[vacantlook]

I've got you all beat: I took to B5 from the very beginning with "The Gathering" way back with its original broadcast in 1993.

 

[crazybillyo]

I've got you all beat: I took to B5 from the very beginning with "The Gathering" way back with its original broadcast in 1993.

Don't think you're the only one.